Help ....Realistic Lab 420 Cartridge Replacement

[Musicmatthew]

I recently purchased a Realistic Lab 420. It has original tone arm, technics headshell, and Shure M97x cartridge. I am new to this. I want to replace the cartridge and stylus. I have read up on compliance but cannot find the tonearm mass in my manual.

Wondering if anyone would know this or have recommendations on new Cartridge. I am considering the Audio Technical AT-VM95E. Will this work ?

Any help would be so appreciated. Cheers

 

[Lavane]

What did the 420 originally have, a rebranded Shure M95ED? The 400 had a rebranded Shure M91ED. Either on of those should work very well.
The 420 is rated for a cartridge weight of 3.2g to 8.5g. The original cartridge was a light tracking cartridge from what the specs stated. Around 1.5g-2g.

 

[Musicmatthew]

What did the 420 originally have, a rebranded Shure M95ED? The 400 had a rebranded Shure M91ED. Either on of those should work very well.
The 420 is rated for a cartridge weight of 3.2g to 8.5g. The original cartridge was a light tracking cartridge from what the specs stated. Around 1.5g-2g.

The manual says Shure Model R - 1000ED. So as long as I stay with a light tracking cartridge within those weight specs I should be ok ? Thanks

 

[spark1]

The M97xe is a well-regarded cartridge, altho it seems to engender a fair amount of division between those who love it and those who do not. I had one for a while, and lean towards the latter. To my ears, it has a rolled-off top end that sometimes bothered me. That said, the cartridge has some significant value, even if the stylus is worn or missing. A good elliptical replacement stylus can be had for around $100.

The AT-VM95e is a medium compliance cartridge, of similar weight to the Shure (5.7 grams vs 6 grams) and is equally suitable for your table. I think that is is a very nice cartridge, and an excellent value. As you probably know, there are higher-order stylus options available for it..

 

[Musicmatthew]

The M97xe is a well-regarded cartridge, altho it seems to engender a fair amount of division between those who love it and those who do not. I had one for a while, and lean towards the latter. To my ears, it has a rolled-off top end that sometimes bothered me. That said, the cartridge has some significant value, even if the stylus is worn or missing. A good elliptical replacement stylus can be had for around $100.

The AT-VM95e is a medium compliance cartridge, of similar weight to the Shure (5.7 grams vs 6 grams) and is equally suitable for your table. I think that is is a very nice cartridge, and an excellent value. As you probably know, there are higher-order stylus options available for it..

So I can replace the stylus on my current Shure Cartridge ? Any suggestions on where to buy said replacement Stylus ?

I definitely like the idea of the Audio Technica setup where you can upgrade the stylus.

Thanks.

 

[spark1]

Yes, you can replace it. The stylus assembly is easily removable...it just pulls out (NOT the stylus itself, or the cantilver...the whole stylus assembly!).

Remove the headshell so that it is easier to work the cartrdige. Here is a video so that you can see how it is done (video takes nearly 3 minutes to demonstrate something that could have been done in 20 second).

LP Gear and Turntableneedles.com are two common sources. I have done a lot of business in the past with turntableneedles...quite reliable. LP gear is the US distributor for Jico, a Japanese aftermarket stylus manufacturer held in very high regard. Turntableneedles used to also source Jico needles, but now market their own line of "Bliss" stylii. They state on their website that these are also from a Japanese supplier...perhaps Jico, maybe AT? They will not say...probably because of the terms of their distribution arrangement.

FWIW, cartridge bodies rarely go bad, and can be safely tested with a digital multimeter. It takes a very experienced eye, and high magnification, to determine the wear level on a stylus. As a result, unless you know the specific history of a stylus, I generally recommend replacing it if the cost is not an issue. As you may know, though, the cost of a replacement stylus is often nearly as much as a new cartridge with stylus.

 

[spark1]

FYI...Shure only offered an elliptical stylus for this cartridge. Its model number is N97xE. It appears that LP Gear has some originals in stock, at the egregious price of $200. Their Jico version of the N97xE is $100 or so. They also offer a "vivid line" (hyperelliptical) for $155 and a variety of SAS versions, including one with a ruby cantilever at $250.

 

[Musicmatthew]

FYI...Shure only offered an elliptical stylus for this cartridge. Its model number is N97xE. It appears that LP Gear has some originals in stock, at the egregious price of $200. Their Jico version of the N97xE is $100 or so. They also offer a "vivid line" (hyperelliptical) for $155 and a variety of SAS versions, including one with a ruby cantilever at $250.

Thank you so very much for all this info. I am very grateful. It is a massive learning curve but I am enjoying every minute of it. As a way to make sure my brothers, father, and I routinely see each other and visit I had the idea of having Vinyl Listening sessions where we pick a host each time and everyone brings a record. Now they are hooked and I feel my setup is falling behind lol. I am almost certain I damaged my stylus and any upgrade will be a plus.

I think I may order the Audio Technica with a headshell and then upgrade the Shure at a later date. That way I have backups.

 

[spark1]

Or just get the nude version of the AT-VM95e...its only a bit more than the basic replacement stylus for your Shure. Then sell your Shure on ebay to pay for it, if you find you like the AT better. The difference between the nude and the bonded 95e is relatively subtle, so don't let me spend your money! The basic 95e is just fine!

One note...the AT carts do not play well with phono input impedance of more than 200 picofarads or thereabouts. If you are also using a vintage receiver for your phono stage, they often had somewhat higher input capacitance.

Determining the capacitance in your phono section can be a bit challenging. What are your using?

 

[spark1]

Thank you so very much for all this info. I am very grateful. It is a massive learning curve but I am enjoying every minute of it. As a way to make sure my brothers, father, and I routinely see each other and visit I had the idea of having Vinyl Listening sessions where we pick a host each time and everyone brings a record. Now they are hooked and I feel my setup is falling behind lol. I am almost certain I damaged my stylus and any upgrade will be a plus.

I think I may order the Audio Technica with a headshell and then upgrade the Shure at a later date. That way I have backups.

That sounds like a great way to stay connected. You probably know this, but if you think the stylus is damaged, do not use it!

And, whether you replace the Shure stylus or get a new AT cart, you will need to do a cartridge alignment, calibrate the tracking force indicator, and set the tracking force (and anti-skating) appropriately. If you need guidance on how to do this, let me know and I can send you a nice little set-up guide. Instructions are probably also in the TT manual, which can probably be found at vinylengine.com.

 

[Musicmatthew]

Or just get the nude version of the AT-VM95e...its only a bit more than the basic replacement stylus for your Shure. Then sell your Shure on ebay to pay for it, if you find you like the AT better. The difference between the nude and the bonded 95e is relatively subtle, so don't let me spend your money! The basic 95e is just fine!

One note...the AT carts do not play well with phono input impedance of more than 200 picofarads or thereabouts. If you are also using a vintage receiver for your phono stage, they often had somewhat higher input capacitance.

Determining the capacitance in your phono section can be a bit challenging. What are your using?

My receiver is a Pioneer QX-8000.

 

[spark1]

A simple way for less experienced users to get a fairly precise alignment for that table is to move cartridge forward or backward in the headshell so that the stylus tip is 49mm from the back of the gasket on the headshell "bayonet". Make sure cartridge body is square in the headshell when tightening it back down. Done.

 

[spark1]

My receiver is a Pioneer QX-8000.

If I am reading the schematic correctly (no guarantees!), it looks like the input capacitance of the EQ amp is 100pF. Add another 100 for the tonearm wiring and interconnects, and you are getting close to being beyond optimal, but probably still fine.

Higher frequencies (upper midrange) can become overly forward on AT carts when capacitance loading starts getting past 225-250pF (as an upper boundary).

If you want to go down the capacitance rabbit hole, here is a place to start:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/phono-cartridge-capacitance-loading.662341/

 

[Musicmatthew]

If I am reading the schematic correctly (no guarantees!), it looks like the input capacitance of the EQ amp is 100pF. Add another 100 for the tonearm wiring and interconnects, and you are getting close to being beyond optimal, but probably still fine.

Higher frequencies (upper midrange) can become overly forward on AT carts when capacitance loading starts getting past 225-250pF (as an upper boundary).

If you want to go down the capacitance rabbit hole, here is a place to start:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/phono-cartridge-capacitance-loading.662341/

So looking at the Ortofon 2M Red it says recommended load capacitance is 150-300pF. Would this be a better option as this was the other cartridge I was considering. I really liked the reviews on the AT cartridge but definitely don’t want to run into any problems.

 

[spark1]

I am not one to ask about the Red. I do not like it at all.

Oddly, I like the Blue...same cartridge, different stylus.

But if course, cartridges are much like speakers. Very subjective.

 

[JoeESP9]

The M97xe is a well-regarded cartridge, altho it seems to engender a fair amount of division between those who love it and those who do not. I had one for a while, and lean towards the latter. To my ears, it has a rolled-off top end that sometimes bothered me. That said, the cartridge has some significant value, even if the stylus is worn or missing. A good elliptical replacement stylus can be had for around $100.

The AT-VM95e is a medium compliance cartridge, of similar weight to the Shure (5.7 grams vs 6 grams) and is equally suitable for your table. I think that is is a very nice cartridge, and an excellent value. As you probably know, there are higher-order stylus options available for it..

Shure cartridges, especially from that era are sensitive to capacitive loading. Shure recommended between 200pf and 300pf into a 47K Ohm load. Getting the capacitance wrong results in either rolled off highs or a treble peak. When properly loaded the response is quite smooth.

FWIW: I have a V-15IV w/Jico SAS stylus. I use 250pf and 47K Ohms loading when it's in use. It's not much of an issue for me. I use a LOMC Sumiko Blackbird and a slightly modified Marcof PPA-1 head amp. MC cartridges are relatively insensitive to capacitive loading.

From the Shure service and repair page. Although they're referring to the V-15V and an Onkyo receiver, it applies to just about all Shure cartridges.

If the capacitance is lower than 200 pF, the high frequency response of the V15V will be boosted slightly. If it sounds too bright, you can add capacitance to the Onkyo input by soldering capacitors to the input jacks.
If the capacitance is higher than 300 pF, the high frequency response of the V15V will be reduced slightly.

 

[spark1]

The M97xE is rolled off by design, as I understand it.

 

[spark1]

In any case, if the OP liked the sound of it, it is apparently a good match for his. TT and receiver.

 

[Musicmatthew]

So am I wasting my money trying the AT cartridge ? Should I just get a replacement for my Shure ? Or is there another brand I should be looking at.

Fyi the wealth of knowledge in this community is blowing my mind. Hopefully I can return the favour one day. Cheers

 

[spark1]

So am I wasting my money trying the AT cartridge ? Should I just get a replacement for my Shure ? Or is there another brand I should be looking at.

Fyi the wealth of knowledge in this community is blowing my mind. Hopefully I can return the favour one day. Cheers

Why would you think that?

As I said above, it will almost assuredly be just fine. Perhaps not perfectly optimized, but unless you move into higher end carts and a phono amp with adjustable capacitance and impedance loading, no reason to worry about it.