hi-end tube Amp ?

[Vilmerok]

Hi,

My current setup is JBL4311B - Pioneer A656. Favorite music is hard/art/jazz rock of 60's-70's on vinyl.
I like how is sound my setup. But several friends of mine have tube amplifiers and compare to my integrated amp it sound different. I would say sound is soft and warm. I very like it and want to try to do upgrade of amp.

I'v decided to looking for vintage tube amplifier, but I never had deal with tube amp's and
don't know anything how to choose it.

Could you give some advices - which exact tube amp model in CLASS "A" I need to search? My budget is not big, I'm ready to spend about 300$ - 700$, maybe even 1000$ (if the tube is really cool). Can you share your experiences in this matter? Any models which sound amazing with my vintage JBL speakers ?

Thanks,
Vlad.

 

[primosounds]

My advice is to get something fairly cheap at first. An integrated amp with PP el84 power tubes ( 2 x el84 per side) will output about 15 to 20 watts per channel and should provide you with a start.
Class A is usually single ended type but can also be push pull amp. As there are not many push pull amps in "class A", you would need to look for SE which are lower in power, less than half the output if 1 tube per channel, per dollar spent.

 

[Belvedere2]

I really liked my Dynaco MKIIIs. Plenty of power.

 

[kward]

And "class A" doesn't necessarily mean it's a better sounding or better built amp. It describes the amp's topology, not its sound quality. I suggest more research before you purchase so you can make a more informed decision. Terms you will want to be familiar with are:

Single Ended - one output tube per channel; tube amplifies entire signal.
Push Pull - two output tubes per channel; tubes share amplification duty of the signal--one tube amplifies the polarity correct signal, the other amplifies the polarity inverted signal; signals are recombined through the output transformer so you hear one signal through the speakers.

Class A - the tube (if single ended) or pair of tubes (if push pull) are always on and amplify all portions of the signal. Usually less power output
Class AB - Only applies to push pull. Each tube of the push pull pair is "on" for a portion of the audio signal waveform; At a given power output level, one tube turns off for remaining portion of the input signal cycle, while the other tube turns on more fully. The next half cycle of the input signal, they reverse their roles. Produces a more efficient amplifier, and usually more power than a class A topology.

Within the class AB category there are suffixes 1 and 2:
AB1: grid current does not flow during any part of the input waveform
AB2: grid current flows for part of the input waveform

Most commercial push pull hifi amps will be class AB1. The Dynaco Mk. III previously mentioned is a class AB1 amp, and is one of the very best amps from that era in its power category.

 

[dowto1000]

Hi Vlad,

Your JBL speaker is speced at 91dB, 1 Watt, 1 meter and your Pioneer integrated amp is 70 Watts speced.

The best sounding tube amps, I find, have the simplest circuits. Two stage ( only ) single-ended amps, whose power will be 1 to 3 Watts.

I think you should KEEP your present system, medium efficiency, intact.

The middle-powered tube amps people own and use - are only "average" to me, as far as sound and potential performance IMHO, IME.

Get a higher efficiency pair of speakers FIRST, so you can experiment with the "potentially best" simplest circuit LOW powered SE amps.

Buy a pair of Seismic Audio 15 inch coaxial drivers, and get into the tube amp game on the right foot. Rated 98 dB, ....so you are " in ". These are a steal, cost verses performance...and beneficially, sound-wise, they are a single POINT SOURCE.

For an amp, buy a used Almarro SEP 84 amp, ......and you will have listening FUN. Use the phono in your integrated, go tape-out to the SEP amp. ( "SEP" is single ended pentode , FYI.)

My favorite alternative suggestion is, over time, to buy a cheap used two stage amp using a 12AX7 driver and a 6AQ5 finals tube ( prefer 6AQ5 to a EL-84 / 6BQ5 ) , removed out of a old non-functioning tube tape deck, console, etc etc etc, . You would have to do research on that. People here will help you. The ultimate with those new 98 dB speakers may be a DIY effort, half a 12AX7, directly coupled to the grid of a 6AQ5, which I know can perform lovely..

Have fun.

Dowto1000

 

[Nixxuz]

Hi Vlad,

Your JBL speaker is speced at 91dB, 1 Watt, 1 meter and your Pioneer integrated amp is 70 Watts speced.

The best sounding tube amps, I find, have the simplest circuits. Two stage ( only ) single-ended amps, whose power will be 1 to 3 Watts.

I think you should KEEP your present system, medium efficiency, intact.

The middle-powered tube amps people own and use - are only "average" to me, as far as sound and potential performance IMHO, IME.

Get a higher efficiency pair of speakers FIRST, so you can experiment with the "potentially best" simplest circuit LOW powered SE amps.

Buy a pair of Seismic Audio 15 inch coaxial drivers, and get into the tube amp game on the right foot. Rated 98 dB, ....so you are " in ". These are a steal, cost verses performance...and beneficially, sound-wise, they are a single POINT SOURCE.

For an amp, buy a used Almarro SEP 84 amp, ......and you will have listening FUN. Use the phono in your integrated, go tape-out to the SEP amp. ( "SEP" is single ended pentode , FYI.)

My favorite alternative suggestion is, over time, to buy a cheap used two stage amp using a 12AX7 driver and a 6AQ5 finals tube ( prefer 6AQ5 to a EL-84 / 6BQ5 ) , removed out of a old non-functioning tube tape deck, console, etc etc etc, . You would have to do research on that. People here will help you.

Have fun.

Dowto1000

For the price, might he do better with a pair of Audio Nirvana Super 10" drivers? I'm not bashing the Seismic, as I'm not familiar with either brand, but the AN get really good reviews.

 

[peterh]

Hi,

My current setup is JBL4311B - Pioneer A656. Favorite music is hard/art/jazz rock of 60's-70's on vinyl.
I like how is sound my setup. But several friends of mine have tube amplifiers and compare to my integrated amp it sound different. I would say sound is soft and warm. I very like it and want to try to do upgrade of amp.

I'v decided to looking for vintage tube amplifier, but I never had deal with tube amp's and
don't know anything how to choose it.

Could you give some advices - which exact tube amp model in CLASS "A" I need to search? My budget is not big, I'm ready to spend about 300$ - 700$, maybe even 1000$ (if the tube is really cool). Can you share your experiences in this matter? Any models which sound amazing with my vintage JBL speakers ?

Thanks,
Vlad.

My advice is to borrow an amp from your friends and test on your system.
If needed you could use your pioneer as preamp with a cable from "headphone" to the new poweramp.
That way you will get an feeling for your speakers with the borrowed amp, and if you like the
combination, get a similar amp.

 

[dowto1000]

For the price, might he do better with a pair of Audio Nirvana Super 10" drivers? I'm not bashing the Seismic, as I'm not familiar with either brand, but the AN get really good reviews.

You did not look up my suggestion....... to find out about it . I looked up yours.

First of all, I specifically suggested a 15 inch coaxial, not a 12 inch, because a 15 inch can play bass, whereas any single 12 inch woofer is bass-deficient, relative to a 15 inch. Its just the laws of physics. That 10 inch suggestion has even less bass response than any 12 inch coaxial - which I specifically sought to avoid.

Looking casually at an old web entry, I see the single Audio Nirvana with cast frame sells at $228..... for a single driver. Vlad has a budget and so do I.

The suggestion I made - two 15 inch coaxials, retails for only $239.99 a PAIR, with free shipping and a 30 day money-back guarantee. 98 dB, ...a point source.

If one looks-up the Seismic Audio 15 inch coaxial offering, it seems obvious to me that this is truly a great bargain . A trusted friend of mine, who normally uses GPA 604s at home, also owns Seismic 15 coaxials, and he recommends the Seismic Audio coaxial 15s to people, on a cost-versus-performance basis.

https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/products/pair-of-15-inch-coaxial-speakers

As I pointed out in my first post, the best sounding tube amps IMHO are SE, 1 to 3 Watts. To play the tube audio game well, you start with a high-efficiency two-way speaker. A pair of coaxials, 98 dB rated, IMHO, IME, puts you on the right path from the onset, ....... from the get-go.

'Hope this helps some of you.


Dowto1000

 

[KB007]

Dynaco. ST-70 or a pair of Mk3s if you can find within your budget. Look for something that's had some recent servicing done, caps replaced if poss. There are lots of them out there and they are great amps to "learn" about tubes. They will also hold value quite well if you decide to ever trade up. oh, btw, a grand is not exactly a high end tube amp - just sayin...

 

[soundmotor]

Hi,

My current setup is JBL4311B - Pioneer A656. Favorite music is hard/art/jazz rock of 60's-70's on vinyl.
I like how is sound my setup. But several friends of mine have tube amplifiers and compare to my integrated amp it sound different. I would say sound is soft and warm. I very like it and want to try to do upgrade of amp.

I'v decided to looking for vintage tube amplifier, but I never had deal with tube amp's and
don't know anything how to choose it.

Could you give some advices - which exact tube amp model in CLASS "A" I need to search? My budget is not big, I'm ready to spend about 300$ - 700$, maybe even 1000$ (if the tube is really cool). Can you share your experiences in this matter? Any models which sound amazing with my vintage JBL speakers ?

Thanks,
Vlad.

I like the Dynaco ST70 as a starter amp. In dead-stock form it is a good performer and within the mid to upper point of your budget. It is single-chassis & stereo, there are a lot of them out there, and there is a huge community of users. If you don't like it it will be easy to unload, most likely for what you paid and you end up net zero. If you decide to keep it there are many mods to improve it up well beyond stock.

 

[Nixxuz]

You did not look up my suggestion....... to find out about it . I looked up yours.

First of all, I specifically suggested a 15 inch coaxial, not a 12 inch, because a 15 inch can play bass, whereas any single 12 inch woofer is bass-deficient, relative to a 15 inch. Its just the laws of physics. That 10 inch suggestion has even less bass response than any 12 inch coaxial - which I specifically sought to avoid.

Looking casually at an old web entry, I see the single Audio Nirvana with cast frame sells at $228..... for a single driver. Vlad has a budget and so do I.

The suggestion I made - two 15 inch coaxials, retails for only $239.99 a PAIR, with free shipping and a 30 day money-back guarantee. 98 dB, ...a point source.

If one looks-up the Seismic Audio 15 inch coaxial offering, it seems obvious to me that this is truly a great bargain . A trusted friend of mine, who normally uses GPA 604s at home, also owns Seismic 15 coaxials, and he recommends the Seismic Audio coaxial 15s to people, on a cost-versus-performance basis.

https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/products/pair-of-15-inch-coaxial-speakers

As I pointed out in my first post, the best sounding tube amps IMHO are SE, 1 to 3 Watts. To play the tube audio game well, you start with a high-efficiency two-way speaker. A pair of coaxials, 98 dB rated, IMHO, IME, puts you on the right path from the onset, ....... from the get-go.

'Hope this helps some of you.


Dowto1000

Well, if you had just googled the words "Audio Nirvana" you'd get their page as the first result. From there, the specs for all the drivers they sell are listed. These seemed to fit the criteria. I do know that Seismic makes a lot of PA gear that is not very well reviewed amongs DJs.

From the AN page;

"The Audio Nirvana 'Classic 10 FERRITE' ($298/pr) has a test bench frequency response from 33 hz to almost 20,000 hz (varies by temperature). You can expect at least 99 db efficiency in any of our cabinets. It handles 30 watts continuous RMS (normal listening level will be about 1/10 watt). Impedance is 8 ohms. Voice coil is 1.4 inches (35.5mm). Magnet weight is 3.2 lbs. Total weight is 9 lbs. The cone is made of paper. The surround is accordion style and made of treated cloth. The dust cap is a specially coated fabric material. The frame is cast aluminum."

Another AK'er has put up a review of his AN Classic drivers in an open baffle setup. I'd have to do some searching to find the posts. He seemed VERY impressed by them, to the point of another listener questioning whether or not he had his sub on. That was for 12" driver I think though.

Edit: Found it! http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/a-big-change-to-my-system-today.823091/ And I was wrong. He was also running an additional Eminence 12" sub.

 

[dowto1000]

Well, if you had just googled the words "Audio Nirvana" you'd get their page as the first result. From there, the specs for all the drivers they sell are listed. These seemed to fit the criteria. I do know that Seismic makes a lot of PA gear that is not very well reviewed amongs DJs.

From the AN page;

"The Audio Nirvana 'Classic 10 FERRITE' ($298/pr) has a test bench frequency response from 33 hz to almost 20,000 hz (varies by temperature). You can expect at least 99 db efficiency in any of our cabinets. It handles 30 watts continuous RMS (normal listening level will be about 1/10 watt). Impedance is 8 ohms. Voice coil is 1.4 inches (35.5mm). Magnet weight is 3.2 lbs. Total weight is 9 lbs. The cone is made of paper. The surround is accordion style and made of treated cloth. The dust cap is a specially coated fabric material. The frame is cast aluminum."
View attachment 1223025
Another AK'er has put up a review of his AN Classic drivers in an open baffle setup. I'd have to do some searching to find the posts. He seemed VERY impressed by them, to the point of another listener questioning whether or not he had his sub on. That was for 12" driver I think though.

Edit: Found it! http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/a-big-change-to-my-system-today.823091/ And I was wrong. He was also running an additional Eminence 12" sub.

Hello,

You may have that opinion, I respect it, but differ.

I would ONLY use a 15 inch, TWO way, co axial or duplex, IF I was doing a point source.

Try as one wishes, but one can not overcome the laws of physics.

A 15 will outplay any 10 or 12 for the low end, if both are reasonably designed !

I LIKE 15 inch drivers, two ways, use 515Bs in A7-8 VOTTs at home.

Dowto10000

 

[primosounds]

And "class A" doesn't necessarily mean it's a better sounding or better built amp. It describes the amp's topology, not its sound quality. I suggest more research before you purchase so you can make a more informed decision. Terms you will want to be familiar with are:

Single Ended - one output tube per channel; tube amplifies entire signal..

Just thought i would comment that you can have multiple tubes per channel hooked up in parallel. Just like this amp which is parallel se el84.

 

[BillWojo]

Jeff, you constantly tell folks that the only way to go is with a two stage SE design. I have had several in my system, some highly regarded on here. To my ears they lack something that shows up the second I put a nice PP tube amp in my system.
To date the best sound that I have had are my MAC MC40 monoblocks driving my modded Altecs. I've used the Altec's on all the SE amps in question, yes they sound nice but the Mac's just ROCK!
If SE amps were truly better than PP amps there would not be the big demand for PP amps. Many members on this forum have used both and have made their decision on what they like best.
Enjoy your journey but please don't tell everyone that they MUST follow in your foot steps.

BillWojo

 

[GordonW]

Hi,

My current setup is JBL4311B - Pioneer A656. Favorite music is hard/art/jazz rock of 60's-70's on vinyl.
I like how is sound my setup. But several friends of mine have tube amplifiers and compare to my integrated amp it sound different. I would say sound is soft and warm. I very like it and want to try to do upgrade of amp.

I'v decided to looking for vintage tube amplifier, but I never had deal with tube amp's and
don't know anything how to choose it.

Could you give some advices - which exact tube amp model in CLASS "A" I need to search? My budget is not big, I'm ready to spend about 300$ - 700$, maybe even 1000$ (if the tube is really cool). Can you share your experiences in this matter? Any models which sound amazing with my vintage JBL speakers ?

Thanks,
Vlad.

Hi Vlad- where are you located? We might be able to give you better specific help in finding a cool/great amp, if we knew what was potentially close to you...

Thanks!

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[kward]

Just thought i would comment that you can have multiple tubes per channel hooked up in parallel.

Thank you primo. You can also have paralleled tubes per side in the push pull configuration.

And...while we're at it, might as well mention that the integer suffixes on AB also apply to class A, so it's possible to have class A1 and class A2. Same definition of the suffixes apply.

 

[blhagstrom]

Forget tubes.

Get an older Pioneer or other famous brand.
Something from the 70s.

A capacitor coupled unit with a fresh restore will thrill you to death.

 

[nj pheonix]

Forget tubes.

Get an older Pioneer or other famous brand.
Something from the 70s.

A capacitor coupled unit with a fresh restore will thrill you to death.

Blasphemy

 

[primosounds]

Forget tubes.

Get an older Pioneer or other famous brand.
Something from the 70s.

A capacitor coupled unit with a fresh restore will thrill you to death.

Egadz! Other than the Sci-fi-ish, gee whiz look to the cosmetics of those amps, the sound quality is not even in the ball park. Although, i must admit that the 70s NASA look is impressive.

 

[blhagstrom]

Egadz! Other than the Sci-fi-ish, gee whiz look to the cosmetics of those amps, the sound quality is not even in the ball park. Although, i must admit that the 70s NASA look is impressive.

Yup, the restored cap coupled SS ball park is a lot better than that tube thing.