nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I'm sure I wouldn't go quite that far. Obviously to each his own.
I will say a Sony 6060 wandered in here and I'm surprised just how good it sounds.
hi-end tube Amp ?
- Thread starter Vilmerok
- Start date
I'm sure I wouldn't go quite that far. Obviously to each his own.
I will say a Sony 6060 wandered in here and I'm surprised just how good it sounds.
Watch here or local CL or similar for integrated tube amps, Fisher, Eico, Sherwood, Heathkit, Scott ... If local, see if you can listen to it with your speakers. As far as outputs, sure EL84, or EL34, 7591, 7189. Better if you can find one updated/restored. They will probably all sound good, with differences. EL84 typically more emotion, 7591/7189 very good midrange... Bell Carrillon 6060 is also a good choice but harder to find.
dowto1000
BANNED
Bill,
If you are happy with your system, that is all that counts !!! Honestly, I am glad that you are happy !!
But Bill, you mis-quoted me, and you do not, as yet, understand me - and this gets mighty tiresome after several years. So, let us communicate my friend.
I will address your public critique of me, and explain myself to you, and any others who may be remotely curious.
It is not just a two stage amp, but instead, its a two-stage - DIRECT COUPLED - single ended design. Please notice my Avatar, and especially where I highlighted it in yellow.
Also Bill, 98% of the single ended tube amps you and most people hear, IMHO, IME, are highly deficient, and it starts with pathetic power supplies.......which never allow them to ROCK.
These SE amps are not really honest amps, but rather, are much more like tuners. And THAT is what you, and unfortunately, most people, only get to hear Bill,...... just a little slice.... of the midrange.
What you have heard in SE amps, ( guess what ) - NONE of them would satisfy me either!! Bravo, commendable that you heard that.
You referring to “ Highly regarded here “, …...Rh 84s, Almarro 84 SEPs, …... , both two stage amps, but with coupling caps, will not ever meet my listening criteria. Others may be happy with them, fine. Good for them. I have DIY obtained and heard far higher performance, by eliminating that series coupling capacitor. Elimination of the coupling cap in signal path ....going to a direct couple, is higher fidelity !!
That Chinese SE amp you tried, was certainly deficient - in design and implementation. Great that you heard that, Bill. Sure, go back to that Mac 40. Of course.
Bill, in the mid fi world, a Push Pull mid fi tube amp will easily outplay a mid fi SE amp, because the Push Pull amp has a naturally wider bandwidth. A fact !!
A great SE amp, ( not a usual mid fi one ), takes skill, money, original thought, layout smarts, and ARTISTRY to pull off well.
OK, back to direct-coupled two-stage amps:
In our life time, there were three "commercial " USA amps with this topology, Don Garber's early "Fi" with a 6SF5 input tube, the early Craig Uthus amp, a Moth 2A3, and , since 1989, Dennis Fraker's Serious Stereo 2A3 amps. That last-mentioned design, IMHO, by a wide margin, is the very best performer of them all, and his latest versions have improved even more so .
Regarding your written assertion, ...... "NO ONE, Bill, has to follow me”, to be happy. But I have to follow my own convictions, to be satisfied.
I have, for most of my Altec listening, been "looking" - for the best possible performance.
There is only one best approach to amplification ( that "I" have heard so far ) for ALTECs, …..and I hear it, every year, at RMAF. This becomes my reference amp. What a shame Bill, for both of us, it costs $18,750 a pair, for 3 Watt amps.
Most importantly of all, YOU, and many others, have not ever heard it – by either attending multiple RMAF shows, or visiting Montana. But nicely, I have done both !!
So Bill, you ….do not know...... what I am talking about, hence, a difference in our respective listening experiences exists.
Thats all. …............................ It is that simple.
It has little to do with my attitude, but rather, reflects experiences, .....what I have heard.
I certainly don't lie, I tell the truth, as "I" know it. Just like you do Bill. Yes, I could be wrong. But I speak from direct RMAF listening experiences, over many ( 10 ) years.
I have NO DOUBT about your own listening results in Burlington, N.J. and vicinity, and I totally understand and fully respect your own conclusions.
But I suggest Bill, you should maintain an open mind, and also one day hear what I am talking about. Once experienced directly, heard, it is easily accepted, and you may become a changed person, forever.
But until one hears it, a person simply won't understand this…...... ever !!
RMAF audio show exhibits do vary from year to year, so attend over a few years and decide for yourself.
Herb Reichert from Stereophile, wrote this about Dennis' direct coupled two stage tube amps, his room, GPA 604s, etc. :
https://www.stereophile.com/content/rmaf-2016-sunday-show-herb
Denver is Oct 5-7 2018, with more than a couple hundred superb audio exhibitors displaying - and should be a blast to attend. Visit it this year Bill. Maybe MBL will exhibit their Radialstrahler system, wow, what a sound!! Half a million dollars. Very very nice.
Best to all of you, in your respective audio journeys !!
Dowto1000
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shelly_d
Not An Audiophool
How happy are you with your current speakers. That is the key decision you need to make for this change. Speakers have the biggest impact on what you hear. I would advise you to look at your speakers first and decide if you want to keep them or change them. I do NOT advise swapping them out for an unknown just to get more efficiency so that you can use some flee powered single ended amp. It is the speakers that you actually hear because they actually do the vibrating of the air. If you are happy with the speakers, go with an amp that has the power to drive them. If you are not happy with speakers, you need to find some that your are happy with.
For your current speakers you want an amp that will put out at least 30 to 40 watts per channel and ideally up to 60 watts, which is just about what you have now.
Possibilities abound
For 35 watts/channel or so
Eico Stereo 70 (integrated)
Dynaco Stereo 70 (needs a preamp)
Citation V (needs a preamp) (may not be in budget)
Dynaco MK IV (need a pair and preamp)
At 60 watts/channel or so
Dynaco MK III (need a pair and preamp)
Eico HF50 or HF60 (need an pair and preamp)
There are also a great many Scotts, Sherwoods and Fishers that are out there in the wild at about 30 to 50 watts per channel that will also serve you well.
Hope this helps
Shelly_D
For your current speakers you want an amp that will put out at least 30 to 40 watts per channel and ideally up to 60 watts, which is just about what you have now.
Possibilities abound
For 35 watts/channel or so
Eico Stereo 70 (integrated)
Dynaco Stereo 70 (needs a preamp)
Citation V (needs a preamp) (may not be in budget)
Dynaco MK IV (need a pair and preamp)
At 60 watts/channel or so
Dynaco MK III (need a pair and preamp)
Eico HF50 or HF60 (need an pair and preamp)
There are also a great many Scotts, Sherwoods and Fishers that are out there in the wild at about 30 to 50 watts per channel that will also serve you well.
Hope this helps
Shelly_D
arts
Addicted Member
I am very familiar with the 4311B's,and I really don't think I would be changing out those JBL's anytime soon.
While they are rather sensitive speakers,I would still rather have some reserve in power delivery,based upon your listening choices.
While it may stretch your budget,depending on where you are located,I would recommend something older from Audio Research in the +/- 50 watt range.
Their VSI55 & VSI60 are very nice integrated amps,but you will need an outboard phono stage.
While they are rather sensitive speakers,I would still rather have some reserve in power delivery,based upon your listening choices.
While it may stretch your budget,depending on where you are located,I would recommend something older from Audio Research in the +/- 50 watt range.
Their VSI55 & VSI60 are very nice integrated amps,but you will need an outboard phono stage.
primosounds
Powered with pure tube sounds.
Getting chifi amps can be the "worse buying" audio experience you have had. Too many buyers have had issues either immediately or soon after purchase. At the least make sure the amp is suitable for whatever your AC wall voltage is.
arts
Addicted Member
I love Audio Research equipment,from their earliest to their latest offerings. Quality design,build and sound second to none.And,they stand by their products.Period.
As an independent,with no affiliation with the company whatsoever other than repairing and restoring their ''older'' products (very rarely does their newer equipment ever cross my bench or require attention other than end-of-life tube replacements,or replacing damaged blow-out resistors caused by tube failures) I can say that I have always received stellar support from their tech people. This is why I, in turn, have no qualms recommending their products.And I really don't see their attitude ever changing
Although I have never purchased a ''brand new'' product from them (I wish!!) the following are in regular service in my systems: SP-3A-1,D70 MKII,D76A,VS110.
+1 re Audio Research. I've owned a number of their pieces, my 2 ch system is all AR, mostly newer. Build quality is amazing, sound quality likewise.
One thing I will say about AR is they don't really sound that "tubey", rather they tend to more accurate and detailed without a lot of the tube downside often mentioned.
They do make some nice integrated, the vs as mentioned, they also used to make a ca50 which was quite nice.
One thing I will say about AR is they don't really sound that "tubey", rather they tend to more accurate and detailed without a lot of the tube downside often mentioned.
They do make some nice integrated, the vs as mentioned, they also used to make a ca50 which was quite nice.
Uhhh. I've heard enough JBL L100s (same functional speaker as the 4311) on Pioneer SX626s and their ilk (both restored and not) to know that this type match-up would NOT be my choice. The L100/4311 already is slightly underdamped in the bass- the loss of LF damping due to the capacitor (it goes higher output impedance as frequency goes down), exacerbated by the relatively low impedance of the L100/4311 (they really should be considered 4 ohm or 6 ohm speakers- DCR is less than 5 ohms)- which degrades further the rolloff/loss of damping caused by the cap, makes them go from a little "lively" in the bass, to flatly "wooly" or "mushy" and/or "boomy". Unless your speakers are WAY off the floor and WAY out into the room (far from any boundary, such as wall, floor, etc), this probably isn't going to be a good match, IME.
It's not like a tube amp- though a tube amp may have a somewhat low damping factor compared to a direct-coupled SS amp, it's relatively constant with frequency, and in some cases, actually gets better in the LF (the output impedance at ultra low frequencies cannot go below the DCR of the OPT secondary). OTOH, a cap goes to infinitely high impedance at low frequencies (zero Hz, DC)... ZERO damping- that's another animal altogether.
This is also not getting into the issue of listening to a high-hysteresis (inherently), high dissipation factor HUGE electrolytic cap in series with your speakers. We spend all this time modding speakers to ELIMINATE electrolytic caps from at least the mid and high frequency ranges of our speakers- this would serve to put an EVEN BIGGER one (with even more pronounced bad behavior as described above) in line with the WHOLE speaker... not something I would really want, IMHO.
Regards,
Gordon.
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Tubeglowpio
Active Member
I agree, the only tube amps I seem to enjoy at the end of the day are the two stage single ended at least thus far. With your speaker rating though I would get a nice pushpull like Primo suggested.
Tubeglowpio
Active Member
As much as I enjoyed my Pioneer SX-850 that was restored, once I heard a tube stereo I sold the pioneer and didn't even shed a tear because I had more money for tubes.
RGA
Super Member
This is always a difficult form to post advice because there are typically more vintage, second hand, and DIY recommendations which are all valuable but there are always caveats buying 40 year old amps. The first being - you pay your money and then maybe pay just as much if not 2-3 times what you paid to have it repaired, parts replaced (if they exist anymore) for a sound that may be more nostalgia than reality.
Chinese amps get lumped together as all junk - when that is highly unfair - plenty of Western companies buy stuff an put their own label on the front and sell it for up to ten times - companies with proven track records of scumbaggery are Sim Audio, Wadia, Lexicon, Theta, Mark Levinson (Red Rose), Vincent among numerous others. The difference is that at least the Chinese fake product is at a fake price. Sim Audio buys a Denon receiver for $1800 - puts it in a fancy box and charges $18,000. Theta Data Universal? YThey bough a $299 Philips Laserdisc player - put the ENITRE machine including the Philips case inside their own cheap case and charged $5000 (oh they add a $10 SPDIF connector.
So don't throw stones inside a glass house - the Chinese copy everything (including the US business model).
There are some GOOD Chinese companies out there and some scummy ones but that is true of every country.
I tend to favour low watt SET amplifiers like the 2a3 and 45 that are 1-3 watts or parallel single ended amplifiers if your speakers are a little less efficient thatr provide 7-8 watts. The bigger 211 tube amps can sound utterly phenomenal but to do them right costs in the $20k+ range and I still prefer the 2a3 ultimately. Though the Gaku-On is an exception.
The problem with the DHT 3 watt SET amplifier is that it requires a speaker that is BOTH high sensitive and Highly efficient - (flat impedance).
So first you have to decide how you want to go - vintage (but repairs etc), DIY - you have to know what you're doing both in what exactly you like and how to build, or three buy a respectable amp that should be able to drive your speakers - it won't be a top quality SET amp but can still be a highly musicaly rewarding amplifier.
I am a SET guy but I do like my Kingko KA 101 tube integrated amp ($830 shipped). This to me is just about the perfect starter tube amp or the perfect downsizer tube amp. I reviewed it for dagogo.com but can't direct link so you will need to google it.
Here is why it's a really nice starter tube amp.
1) it's well built - clocking in at a sturdy 25lbs (which is a lot for the size) and is dead quiet.
2) it's relatively inexpensive - as it's a one man operation from King Ip who has repaired and sold tube amps for 15 years - he has seen where most stuff goes bad and avoided the mistakes.
3) It is EL84 based and valve rectified. EL84s are some of the least expensive tubes to buy and they tend to last considerably longer than other output tubes - thus running costs are low.
4) auto-bias - no need to buy a voltmeter and adjust bias settings - thus user friendly as it can get for a beginner. It will even auto bias non matched tubes.
5) It can be used as a power amp - so you can upgrade it in steps so you don't lose money. In other words you can later buy a superior preamplifier and use the KingKo as a dedicated power amp.
6) it has a pretty excellent all tube headphone output not a cheap add on IC chip. Which means that down the line if you go crazy and buy a high end SET amp - you can still use this as a second system or headphone amp system
7) it has a voltage switch on the side - for US or Euro voltage. So should you move you can still use the amp.
8) it has replaceable front plates for different colour options and it has dual meters (cause meters are fun).
The downsides are that it is a one man operation and there is more risk buying something sight unheard (though some posters on audiokarma have bought one so you can do a search). OTOH if this amp were selling in the US it would be selling for $1,800-$2,500 based on what typical US mark-up is on better brands from China. The Kingko sounds better than all Chinese amps that I have heard in this price range (and American amps too). I personally prefer it to Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum for example.
The other downside is that it is 12 watts which may not be enough - my speakers are 96dB sensitive and it's enough - 3-4 watts is enough for my speakers. Still it depends on the room size and how loud you like to play.
The problem is that modern tube amplifiers (of quality) and that offer in the 30+ watt range start at around $1500 - that would be something like the Line Magnetic 211ia which IMO doesn't sound as good as the Kingko but it is one of the best EL34 based integrate amps around. And has more dealer presence in the US/Canada. Still if you can do with half the power the KingKo would be first choice.
But as another poster alluded - the further you get from the ideal 1-3 watt SET amps the more solid state sounding much of this becomes. Or has too much bloat in the midband.
The EL84 based amps though get you more of a SET presence when done well - with more power even in push pull. And they're less costly to buy and operate.
Lastly - Audio Note Kits has a special on their 17 watt EL84 integrated amplifier kit for $1120 (they will also build it for you for a nominal fee). Audio note uses some of the best parts quality in the industry at any given price point and typically sound far FAR more powerful than their rated outputs. A kit generally uses superior parts than any finished product for even double the money. Further - Audio Note arguably has the best instruction manuals of any kit ever produced and goes over everything step by step with full colour photos.
I have owned the Audio Note OTO for 15 years and replaced 1 tube for failing. All Audio Note amps have universal transformers and are all autobias (just pull out tube put in new tube - like a light bulb - zero work. I have heard no better tube amp maker past or present. Most are hideously expensive products - which is why they offer the kits and Zero series. Slightly over your max budget but Audio Note is basically as good as tube amplifiers get. And not made in China. The transformers are made either in the UK or Canada depending on models. AN makes more of their own parts than any other manufacturer in the world. One of the reasons I like them so much is that I know what I am getting and some 11 year old in a sweatshop wasn't on the assembly line. They even make the circuit board in house - they make their own capsm resistors, wires, volume pots, casework - not on the entry level models though - some things are sourced to keep prices down.
Kit information http://www.ankaudiokits.com/l1el84.html
Price page http://www.ankaudiokits.com/e-shop3...-amplifiers/l1-el84-integrated-amplifier.html
And now because you made me look stuff up - I am looking REAL HARD at the 2a3 3.5 watt Monoblocks for $2400 - For monoblocks! In 2018. $2,560 for parallel - jeez - AN's finished product starts at $6k. Jeez
http://www.ankaudiokits.com/Legend-300B-Power-Tube-Amplifier.html
Chinese amps get lumped together as all junk - when that is highly unfair - plenty of Western companies buy stuff an put their own label on the front and sell it for up to ten times - companies with proven track records of scumbaggery are Sim Audio, Wadia, Lexicon, Theta, Mark Levinson (Red Rose), Vincent among numerous others. The difference is that at least the Chinese fake product is at a fake price. Sim Audio buys a Denon receiver for $1800 - puts it in a fancy box and charges $18,000. Theta Data Universal? YThey bough a $299 Philips Laserdisc player - put the ENITRE machine including the Philips case inside their own cheap case and charged $5000 (oh they add a $10 SPDIF connector.
So don't throw stones inside a glass house - the Chinese copy everything (including the US business model).
There are some GOOD Chinese companies out there and some scummy ones but that is true of every country.
I tend to favour low watt SET amplifiers like the 2a3 and 45 that are 1-3 watts or parallel single ended amplifiers if your speakers are a little less efficient thatr provide 7-8 watts. The bigger 211 tube amps can sound utterly phenomenal but to do them right costs in the $20k+ range and I still prefer the 2a3 ultimately. Though the Gaku-On is an exception.
The problem with the DHT 3 watt SET amplifier is that it requires a speaker that is BOTH high sensitive and Highly efficient - (flat impedance).
So first you have to decide how you want to go - vintage (but repairs etc), DIY - you have to know what you're doing both in what exactly you like and how to build, or three buy a respectable amp that should be able to drive your speakers - it won't be a top quality SET amp but can still be a highly musicaly rewarding amplifier.
I am a SET guy but I do like my Kingko KA 101 tube integrated amp ($830 shipped). This to me is just about the perfect starter tube amp or the perfect downsizer tube amp. I reviewed it for dagogo.com but can't direct link so you will need to google it.
Here is why it's a really nice starter tube amp.
1) it's well built - clocking in at a sturdy 25lbs (which is a lot for the size) and is dead quiet.
2) it's relatively inexpensive - as it's a one man operation from King Ip who has repaired and sold tube amps for 15 years - he has seen where most stuff goes bad and avoided the mistakes.
3) It is EL84 based and valve rectified. EL84s are some of the least expensive tubes to buy and they tend to last considerably longer than other output tubes - thus running costs are low.
4) auto-bias - no need to buy a voltmeter and adjust bias settings - thus user friendly as it can get for a beginner. It will even auto bias non matched tubes.
5) It can be used as a power amp - so you can upgrade it in steps so you don't lose money. In other words you can later buy a superior preamplifier and use the KingKo as a dedicated power amp.
6) it has a pretty excellent all tube headphone output not a cheap add on IC chip. Which means that down the line if you go crazy and buy a high end SET amp - you can still use this as a second system or headphone amp system
7) it has a voltage switch on the side - for US or Euro voltage. So should you move you can still use the amp.
8) it has replaceable front plates for different colour options and it has dual meters (cause meters are fun).
The downsides are that it is a one man operation and there is more risk buying something sight unheard (though some posters on audiokarma have bought one so you can do a search). OTOH if this amp were selling in the US it would be selling for $1,800-$2,500 based on what typical US mark-up is on better brands from China. The Kingko sounds better than all Chinese amps that I have heard in this price range (and American amps too). I personally prefer it to Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum for example.
The other downside is that it is 12 watts which may not be enough - my speakers are 96dB sensitive and it's enough - 3-4 watts is enough for my speakers. Still it depends on the room size and how loud you like to play.
The problem is that modern tube amplifiers (of quality) and that offer in the 30+ watt range start at around $1500 - that would be something like the Line Magnetic 211ia which IMO doesn't sound as good as the Kingko but it is one of the best EL34 based integrate amps around. And has more dealer presence in the US/Canada. Still if you can do with half the power the KingKo would be first choice.
But as another poster alluded - the further you get from the ideal 1-3 watt SET amps the more solid state sounding much of this becomes. Or has too much bloat in the midband.
The EL84 based amps though get you more of a SET presence when done well - with more power even in push pull. And they're less costly to buy and operate.
Lastly - Audio Note Kits has a special on their 17 watt EL84 integrated amplifier kit for $1120 (they will also build it for you for a nominal fee). Audio note uses some of the best parts quality in the industry at any given price point and typically sound far FAR more powerful than their rated outputs. A kit generally uses superior parts than any finished product for even double the money. Further - Audio Note arguably has the best instruction manuals of any kit ever produced and goes over everything step by step with full colour photos.
I have owned the Audio Note OTO for 15 years and replaced 1 tube for failing. All Audio Note amps have universal transformers and are all autobias (just pull out tube put in new tube - like a light bulb - zero work. I have heard no better tube amp maker past or present. Most are hideously expensive products - which is why they offer the kits and Zero series. Slightly over your max budget but Audio Note is basically as good as tube amplifiers get. And not made in China. The transformers are made either in the UK or Canada depending on models. AN makes more of their own parts than any other manufacturer in the world. One of the reasons I like them so much is that I know what I am getting and some 11 year old in a sweatshop wasn't on the assembly line. They even make the circuit board in house - they make their own capsm resistors, wires, volume pots, casework - not on the entry level models though - some things are sourced to keep prices down.
Kit information http://www.ankaudiokits.com/l1el84.html
Price page http://www.ankaudiokits.com/e-shop3...-amplifiers/l1-el84-integrated-amplifier.html
And now because you made me look stuff up - I am looking REAL HARD at the 2a3 3.5 watt Monoblocks for $2400 - For monoblocks! In 2018. $2,560 for parallel - jeez - AN's finished product starts at $6k. Jeez
http://www.ankaudiokits.com/Legend-300B-Power-Tube-Amplifier.html
Last edited:
s-petersen
Scott
Reminds me of the SS Dynaco 120A
Tubeglowpio
Active Member
El84 tubes don't last longer than other tubes normally, they are rated to last half as long as a 6v6 for example. Unless you use something like the 6p14p which is rated for 5000 hours.This is always a difficult form to post advice because there are typically more vintage, second hand, and DIY recommendations which are all valuable but there are always caveats buying 40 year old amps. The first being - you pay your money and then maybe pay just as much if not 2-3 times what you paid to have it repaired, parts replaced (if they exist anymore) for a sound that may be more nostalgia than reality.
Chinese amps get lumped together as all junk - when that is highly unfair - plenty of Western companies buy stuff an put their own label on the front and sell it for up to ten times - companies with proven track records of scumbaggery are Sim Audio, Wadia, Lexicon, Theta, Mark Levinson (Red Rose), Vincent among numerous others. The difference is that at least the Chinese fake product is at a fake price. Sim Audio buys a Denon receiver for $1800 - puts it in a fancy box and charges $18,000. Theta Data Universal? YThey bough a $299 Philips Laserdisc player - put the ENITRE machine including the Philips case inside their own cheap case and charged $5000 (oh they add a $10 SPDIF connector.
So don't throw stones inside a glass house - the Chinese copy everything (including the US business model).
There are some GOOD Chinese companies out there and some scummy ones but that is true of every country.
I tend to favour low watt SET amplifiers like the 2a3 and 45 that are 1-3 watts or parallel single ended amplifiers if your speakers are a little less efficient thatr provide 7-8 watts. The bigger 211 tube amps can sound utterly phenomenal but to do them right costs in the $20k+ range and I still prefer the 2a3 ultimately. Though the Gaku-On is an exception.
The problem with the DHT 3 watt SET amplifier is that it requires a speaker that is BOTH high sensitive and Highly efficient - (flat impedance).
So first you have to decide how you want to go - vintage (but repairs etc), DIY - you have to know what you're doing both in what exactly you like and how to build, or three buy a respectable amp that should be able to drive your speakers - it won't be a top quality SET amp but can still be a highly musicaly rewarding amplifier.
I am a SET guy but I do like my Kingko KA 101 tube integrated amp ($830 shipped). This to me is just about the perfect starter tube amp or the perfect downsizer tube amp. I reviewed it for dagogo.com but can't direct link so you will need to google it.
Here is why it's a really nice starter tube amp.
1) it's well built - clocking in at a sturdy 25lbs (which is a lot for the size) and is dead quiet.
2) it's relatively inexpensive - as it's a one man operation from King Ip who has repaired and sold tube amps for 15 years - he has seen where most stuff goes bad and avoided the mistakes.
3) It is EL84 based and valve rectified. EL84s are some of the least expensive tubes to buy and they tend to last considerably longer than other output tubes - thus running costs are low.
4) auto-bias - no need to buy a voltmeter and adjust bias settings - thus user friendly as it can get for a beginner. It will even auto bias non matched tubes.
5) It can be used as a power amp - so you can upgrade it in steps so you don't lose money. In other words you can later buy a superior preamplifier and use the KingKo as a dedicated power amp.
6) it has a pretty excellent all tube headphone output not a cheap add on IC chip. Which means that down the line if you go crazy and buy a high end SET amp - you can still use this as a second system or headphone amp system
7) it has a voltage switch on the side - for US or Euro voltage. So should you move you can still use the amp.
8) it has replaceable front plates for different colour options and it has dual meters (cause meters are fun).
The downsides are that it is a one man operation and there is more risk buying something sight unheard (though some posters on audiokarma have bought one so you can do a search). OTOH if this amp were selling in the US it would be selling for $1,800-$2,500 based on what typical US mark-up is on better brands from China. The Kingko sounds better than all Chinese amps that I have heard in this price range (and American amps too). I personally prefer it to Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum for example.
The other downside is that it is 12 watts which may not be enough - my speakers are 96dB sensitive and it's enough - 3-4 watts is enough for my speakers. Still it depends on the room size and how loud you like to play.
The problem is that modern tube amplifiers (of quality) and that offer in the 30+ watt range start at around $1500 - that would be something like the Line Magnetic 211ia which IMO doesn't sound as good as the Kingko but it is one of the best EL34 based integrate amps around. And has more dealer presence in the US/Canada. Still if you can do with half the power the KingKo would be first choice.
But as another poster alluded - the further you get from the ideal 1-3 watt SET amps the more solid state sounding much of this becomes. Or has too much bloat in the midband.
The EL84 based amps though get you more of a SET presence when done well - with more power even in push pull. And they're less costly to buy and operate.
Lastly - Audio Note Kits has a special on their 17 watt EL84 integrated amplifier kit for $1120 (they will also build it for you for a nominal fee). Audio note uses some of the best parts quality in the industry at any given price point and typically sound far FAR more powerful than their rated outputs. A kit generally uses superior parts than any finished product for even double the money. Further - Audio Note arguably has the best instruction manuals of any kit ever produced and goes over everything step by step with full colour photos.
I have owned the Audio Note OTO for 15 years and replaced 1 tube for failing. All Audio Note amps have universal transformers and are all autobias (just pull out tube put in new tube - like a light bulb - zero work. I have heard no better tube amp maker past or present. Most are hideously expensive products - which is why they offer the kits and Zero series. Slightly over your max budget but Audio Note is basically as good as tube amplifiers get. And not made in China. The transformers are made either in the UK or Canada depending on models. AN makes more of their own parts than any other manufacturer in the world. One of the reasons I like them so much is that I know what I am getting and some 11 year old in a sweatshop wasn't on the assembly line. They even make the circuit board in house - they make their own capsm resistors, wires, volume pots, casework - not on the entry level models though - some things are sourced to keep prices down.
Kit information http://www.ankaudiokits.com/l1el84.html
Price page http://www.ankaudiokits.com/e-shop3...-amplifiers/l1-el84-integrated-amplifier.html
And now because you made me look stuff up - I am looking REAL HARD at the 2a3 3.5 watt Monoblocks for $2400 - For monoblocks! In 2018. $2,560 for parallel - jeez - AN's finished product starts at $6k. Jeez
http://www.ankaudiokits.com/Legend-300B-Power-Tube-Amplifier.html
dowto1000
BANNED
Another alternative, for long tube life, is to design the amp for low Finals tube plate dissipations, from the get-go.
Many amps are designed with tubes that run close to the Final's tube maximum rated dissipation. Running tubes at 100% of dissipation, may initially sound more dynamic and better, but the tube quickly degrades, so the initial listen does NOT equal the amp's long term performance.
This is deficient design IMHO. Also, I find there is a " stressed" sound to tubes, whose plates are run at close to 100% of rated maximum. I THINK we hear thermal stress, in this case, it is just my own guess.
Conservative plate dissipation, of the same Finals tube, will allow it to last TENS of thousands of hours. The reduced dissipation is achieved best by reducing standing current, and leaving voltage across the tube ( plate to cathode) high, somewhat near the maximum.
Probably, the best designed op point, for long term life and reliability, is to dissipate a golden ratio, or close to a golden ratio, of a Finals tube's maximum rating. This would be about 62 percent of the tube's 100% maximum rating. This change alone will increase tube-life by a factor of 5 times or more, I would ESTIMATE.
Could I give you an analology, of a car driving across the USA at 62 MPH versus 100 MPH ???
An example, a 2A3 has a 15 Watt rated plate, and is typically run at 250 VDC plate-to-cathode and at 60 milliamperes ( 0.060A,. ) So, 250 Volts times 0.060A. is 15 Watts of plate dissipation, or 100% of rated maximum.
What if we ran the 2A3 tube at 240 Volts plate-to-cathode, and 42 milliamperes? ( 240 VDC times 0.042 A. is 10.08 Watts of plate dissipation, 0.672 of its 100% rating.
This op point will allow the tube to last. Why, one can justify buying an EML Mesh Plate 2A3, if it plays consistently well for 50,000 hours !!
If the 2A3 amp is poorly wired, so as to have losses in its internal transfer efficiency, and has a poorly designed ( high DCR, slow or sluggish power supply ), you likely will not be able to pull-off the reduced dissipations. You will be forced to "hot-rod" the tube. But IMHO, that is not good design and implementation - at all.
Many of my own designs end up at about 66% of maximum, dissipated across the plate. Have fun, I do.
Dowto1000
RGA
Super Member
Yes sorry - the EL34 and KT88 were in my head when I said that. I mean to be blunt a lot of this today is a bit luck of the draw - Some tubes simply last a lot longer.
In the Audio Note OTO amplifier - Single Ended Pentode 10 watts per channel (4.2 watts per channel undistorted) - Audio Note states the expected tube life will be 8,000 hours for the EL84 and all the other tubes used. http://www.audionote.co.uk/downloads/manuals/OTO Phono SE Manual.pdf
The OTO is wonderful sounding amplifier - not as good as their SET amplifiers but better than a lot of SET amplifiers made by a lot of other makers. I think their level "tier" classification of amplifier designs from best to worst is a good one and a correct one BUT a very good SEP design like the OTO still beats a run of the mill 300B SET amp from who knows who of mediocre transformer quality.
I'm real big on parts quality - transformers being critical - the most critical part. Everything else is easy to replace - don't like Jensen try Mundorf or AN caps - - don't like Mullard try Mazda or RCA etc. But you're stuck with the transformer.
My DAC uses the 6111WA with an expected tube life of a whopping 100,000 hours.
Part of these things depend on how hard a given design pushes the tubes. I remember that ARC amps would blow through tubes quite fast.
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Tubeglowpio
Active Member
jon anderson
New Member
You do not know what you are talking about, I have been in this business for about 30 years. This is a VERY fine little integrated!! Built extremely well, better than anything I have seen. The thing is quiet as a stone, no sound at all when nothing being played. It sounds sublime. Fantastic Amplifier!!
primosounds
Powered with pure tube sounds.
Exactly what amp are you referring to?