HORN ALMIGHTY my ultimate project
- Thread starter Helmuth
- Start date
Helmuth
Active Member
Thanks for the positive response to the design.
I like to design things like my previous speaker projects. This particular design got a lot of smart solutions to horn problems.
One you can see on the front side. And a bit of subbas from a horn gives it just some extra what most horn projects fail. They give cut of sound at the low end.
Although I think that some horn fans want to hear that kind of sound.
I like to design things like my previous speaker projects. This particular design got a lot of smart solutions to horn problems.
One you can see on the front side. And a bit of subbas from a horn gives it just some extra what most horn projects fail. They give cut of sound at the low end.
Although I think that some horn fans want to hear that kind of sound.
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Helmuth
Active Member
Hi I am back to show some results. I have bin modifying the filter of the horn from February till now. I did try three way 1oct filter but that wasn't satisfying to many holes and bumps in the stereo image. so back to th original idea of a two way horn. The problem where big differences in HF driver of the right and left channel and they did not go up to 20kHz like the spec told me.
I did try al kinds of approaches to the filter till for about a month ago I had made the right approach. I almost had given it up it is real amazing what a good filter can do for a passive loudspeaker. I really what to encourage every body to optimize your system, and then go for the biggest influence the speaker. And if you think you know some thing about electronics optimize the filter. And I do not mean buy expensive parts because that isn't the deal. It is the right choice of topology for your driver.
I use janzen flat wire coils and some tinfoil capacitors and MKP types. But I would advise to experiment with cheap bipolar ones and when you know what is the right filter, then buy the special ones if you want the tune on detail and so on.
When i mean optimize your filter I do not mean a standard first, second or third order filter. I mean play with series and parallel impedances zobel and so on made with R-L-C and stay in save area of the total impedance. And listen to the sound of the speaker and measure the response and phase.. :thmbsp:
Here the result of my Horn XO at 650Hz. After modifying the filter and then the drivers and than again modified the filter many times and listen a lot.
The first picture shows the result with a window of 5 msec with out filter and with 1/3oct smoothing. The reason to show high frequency in a small window is the higher accuracy of the MLS measurement as with a longer window.
Here the result with a 42msec window and 1/3oct smoothing and a mathematical filter (Hamming) to increase higher accuracy with the long window. The window is long so the low frequency's are also measured you can see the high frequency isn't that smooth with a long window because of the reflections that come with a long window.
note 1:The blue line is the phase
note 2: the spl is here 90dB at 1Watt is is average around 103dB I did see but I have to calibrate the system to go sure on that.
note 3: Measurements where taken in my living room microphone about 1mtr in front of the speaker. the speaker is calculated to operate in a corner and so also where the measurements done in this position where I use the speaker.
Note 4: The ripple in the response at 200Hz is the result of measuring a backloaded horn close in front(1mtr) of the speaker this will always give some influence witch will be gone on greater distance.
Cheers, Helmuth
I did try al kinds of approaches to the filter till for about a month ago I had made the right approach. I almost had given it up it is real amazing what a good filter can do for a passive loudspeaker. I really what to encourage every body to optimize your system, and then go for the biggest influence the speaker. And if you think you know some thing about electronics optimize the filter. And I do not mean buy expensive parts because that isn't the deal. It is the right choice of topology for your driver.
I use janzen flat wire coils and some tinfoil capacitors and MKP types. But I would advise to experiment with cheap bipolar ones and when you know what is the right filter, then buy the special ones if you want the tune on detail and so on.
When i mean optimize your filter I do not mean a standard first, second or third order filter. I mean play with series and parallel impedances zobel and so on made with R-L-C and stay in save area of the total impedance. And listen to the sound of the speaker and measure the response and phase.. :thmbsp:
Here the result of my Horn XO at 650Hz. After modifying the filter and then the drivers and than again modified the filter many times and listen a lot.
The first picture shows the result with a window of 5 msec with out filter and with 1/3oct smoothing. The reason to show high frequency in a small window is the higher accuracy of the MLS measurement as with a longer window.
Here the result with a 42msec window and 1/3oct smoothing and a mathematical filter (Hamming) to increase higher accuracy with the long window. The window is long so the low frequency's are also measured you can see the high frequency isn't that smooth with a long window because of the reflections that come with a long window.
note 1:The blue line is the phase
note 2: the spl is here 90dB at 1Watt is is average around 103dB I did see but I have to calibrate the system to go sure on that.
note 3: Measurements where taken in my living room microphone about 1mtr in front of the speaker. the speaker is calculated to operate in a corner and so also where the measurements done in this position where I use the speaker.
Note 4: The ripple in the response at 200Hz is the result of measuring a backloaded horn close in front(1mtr) of the speaker this will always give some influence witch will be gone on greater distance.
Cheers, Helmuth
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Helmuth
Active Member
In a short wile I will take some pictures in the garden like this earlier project.
The horn speaker looks great now it got a nature stone foot. It has become very heavy from the filter, drivers and stone foot and the horn construction. This was a real intensive project to become right there where many obstacles to pass.
The horn speaker looks great now it got a nature stone foot. It has become very heavy from the filter, drivers and stone foot and the horn construction. This was a real intensive project to become right there where many obstacles to pass.
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Is there something known about a addiction in this kind field?
Helmuth
Active Member
Hi did a stereo measurement with the micropone at my listening position. It is very critical to place the speakers in the right position to get a good result.
I have done this measurements also with previous projects to become a feeling what is good. There where guys how claim that isn't use full to measure a speaker this way. I think it is the only usefull measurement to know what you are listening at.
position microphone
I have done this measurements also with previous projects to become a feeling what is good. There where guys how claim that isn't use full to measure a speaker this way. I think it is the only usefull measurement to know what you are listening at.
position microphone
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Helmuth
Active Member
I stopped modifying the filter, for this moment
It doesn't progress any more I only go from one point to the other end end up the same.
The filter it just fits in the compartment that's why it is so stacked. The coils can be placed in three directions so they do not inter-fear with each other. The directions are horizontal vertical and 90 degrees angled.
The back side of the Bi-wired speaker and he nature stone foot is also visual. The two white knobs are switches one can make 1 order or 2 order steepness, and the other can change the level of the midhigh horn depends on how deep the speaker is placed in the corner.
It doesn't progress any more I only go from one point to the other end end up the same.The filter it just fits in the compartment that's why it is so stacked. The coils can be placed in three directions so they do not inter-fear with each other. The directions are horizontal vertical and 90 degrees angled.
The back side of the Bi-wired speaker and he nature stone foot is also visual. The two white knobs are switches one can make 1 order or 2 order steepness, and the other can change the level of the midhigh horn depends on how deep the speaker is placed in the corner.
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Helmuth
Active Member
To lift the low end response I placed the speaker deeper in the corner. Here the result of the stereo measurement on listing position. Because the simulation showed 35Hz would be possible. now I measure about -12dB 35Hz.
simulation of the horn mouth response 35Hz -6dB.
Note: Used amplifier Yaqin MC-10L (1n6eb, EL34 JJ)
simulation of the horn mouth response 35Hz -6dB.
Note: Used amplifier Yaqin MC-10L (1n6eb, EL34 JJ)
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Helmuth
Active Member
I would not know what do you mean visiman.
