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How much difference does the (quality of ) stylus make?

M

Matonanjin3

Active Member
Randy, of Skylabs in Des Moines, recently stated in a YouTube video, that the cartridge is responsible for 95% of the sound (quality). While I don't know the exact percentage I agree with the sentiment. I had thought this for a while before seeing the video.

But of the 95% how much can be attributed to the styli? They are, after all, just a tiny rod with a tiny diamond on the end. I am looking to replace my stylus on my Ortofon Blue and glancing on eBay they range from $24.90 to almost ten times that, $229.99. If I purcahsed them both would would I hear any difference in the music?

Are there differences in Stylus quality?
 
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cason said:
I think one of the most striking examples of how much difference the stylus can make is found in the with the Ortofon red/blue cartridge.
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I have a bought new and low hours Ortofon Red and have not been impressed with it. What is the recommended stylus upgrade?
 
Matonanjin3 said:
Randy, of Skylabs in Des Moines, recently stated in a YouTube video, that the cartridge is responsible for 95% of the sound (quality). While I don't know the exact percentage I agree with the sentiment. I had thought this for a while before seeing the video.

But of the 95% how much can be attributed to the styli? They are, after all, just a tiny rod with a tiny diamond on the end. I am looking to replace my stylus on my Ortofon Blue and glancing on eBay they range from $24.90 to almost ten times that, $229.99. If I purcahsed them both would would I hear any difference in the music?

Are there differences in Stylus quality?
Click to expand...
My experience tells me (excluding total sh**t cartridges and styli) that the cantilever makes the most difference. Cantilevers that are very responsive (there are different ways to achieve this) give the best sound, regardless of cartridge.
Anyone who has ever struggled to get a heavy or poor tracking stylus to track and sound good has experienced the same.
 
Matonanjin3 said:
Randy, of Skylabs in Des Moines, recently stated in a YouTube video, that the cartridge is responsible for 95% of the sound (quality). While I don't know the exact percentage I agree with the sentiment. I had thought this for a while before seeing the video.

But of the 95% how much can be attributed to the styli? They are, after all, just a tiny rod with a tiny diamond on the end. I am looking to replace my stylus on my Ortofon Blue and glancing on eBay they range from $24.90 to almost ten times that, $229.99. If I purcahsed them both would would I hear any difference in the music?

Are there differences in Stylus quality?
Click to expand...
In my experience, the quality of the vinyl — the engineering, the mastering, and the pressing — makes more difference than minor changes to the cantilever and tip.

Yes, a very good cartridge/tonearm tandem will make a good vinyl LP sound very good. But, they cannot make a bad pressing sound good.

;)
 
Above, I was referring to replacing the original Ortofon Red stylus with the replacement Ortofon Blue stylus. It is an impressive difference to my ears.
 
I've always liked the Ortofon OM series. The budget 5e is good for the money, but the SQ difference is pronounced as you change the stylus from that up to OM20 and 30. The 40 is above my pay grade. You get clarity and realism as you spend more money.
 
BmWr75 said:
I have a bought new and low hours Ortofon Red and have not been impressed with it. What is the recommended stylus upgrade?
Click to expand...
The Blue is enough better than the Red as to be a completely different cartridge, in my experience. It's the quickest, and easiest, way to better sound for those who find the Red to be lacking. The Red is OK, but I could never get it to sound the way I thought it should. The Blue cured those blues.

These days I play a little higher up the food chain. But, the new Ortofon MC X series LOMC carts all have the same motor, the only differences in the lower three models are the stylus profiles, and the suspension rubber compounds. The X10 has the same tonal balance as the X30, and, depending on the recording, it can be difficult to tell which is on the tonearm. But, in comparison, the X10 presents as a little slower sounding, and somewhat less detailed and dynamic, courtesy of the heavier bonded stylus. It's more like listening to speakers with heavy grilles on. The X30 gets waaaay more time on the arm!
 
Hi, The stylus certainly can make an improvement, but this is when you more from Elliptical to Shibata (very difficult to set up correctly) or even better & a little easier to set up Micro Line.
This is what several cartridge manufacturers do with the cartridge line Ortofon go from Conical with the OM5 the OM40 having a high end nude FG 70 tip. Similar with the basic Red cat to the Black. Again Denon did this with their DL-300 MC cart through to the 305. However as well you really need to also upgrade the cantilever at the same time. So you have the basic Carbon Fiber, then aluminum, Boron & even Sapphire.

But the statement that the cart is responsible for 95% of the sound is totally wrong. The arm is the biggest contributor, it is the arms ability to allow the cart to retrieve the subtle information from the LP grooves. I would put is about at a 60/40 split. A cheap cart on a good arm will always sound better than a expensive cart on a cheap arm.

Cheers
 
BmWr75 said:
I have a bought new and low hours Ortofon Red and have not been impressed with it. What is the recommended stylus upgrade?
Click to expand...
the red and blue Ortofon 2M styli use the same cartridge body. The Blue is a significant upgrade over the red; I low-key hated the red and loved the blue until I got a MM cartridge.
 
By quality of the stylus, what do you mean?

A stylus cut to a shape should be pretty indistinguishable from another cut to the same shape. Different cuts track the groove differently, and those comparisons are measurable. The cantilever and even more suspension will very much affect sound. This is most notable to me in vintage carts like Stanton and shure, where aftermarket replacements just don't work and sound the same.

I would generally advise against any of the styli avaliable that are obviously generic. The best are always oem, followed imho by vintage aftermarket. An 80s pfanstiehl might not sound as good as an oem shure, but it's much better than most avaliable today.

Some folks really like jico, but for the price you can find oem still. Ymmv
 
The stylus tip can make a difference. But more likely its the combination of stylus tip and stylus assembly for a MM cart. Keep in mind the MM or MC cart is a vibration machine. Anything you can do to damp those vibrations down should give you a cleaner signal. Years ago I believed the 95% about the cart having a large improvement on the sound. Today, I would say the phono stage is just as important if not more so. And if a person steps away from MM carts and steps into LOMC carts, then the differences get smaller and the price goes up astronomically.
 
Matonanjin3 said:
Randy, of Skylabs in Des Moines, recently stated in a YouTube video, that the cartridge is responsible for 95% of the sound (quality).
Click to expand...

Well he is not correct at all. For starters the tonearm has a huge contribution to sound quality. And the turntable (platter, mat, bearing, plinth) also has an important contribution. I would say the tonearm is more important to sound quality than the cartridge.

This assumes, of course, you are not using really poor quality stuff like aftermarket stylus, etc.

tabarddn51 said:
But the statement that the cart is responsible for 95% of the sound is totally wrong. The arm is the biggest contributor, it is the arms ability to allow the cart to retrieve the subtle information from the LP grooves. I would put is about at a 60/40 split. A cheap cart on a good arm will always sound better than a expensive cart on a cheap arm.
Click to expand...

yes, often
 
A cheap cart on a good arm will always sound better than a expensive cart on a cheap arm.
100% true, this has been done and proven long ago and thanks for mentioning it.

When it comes to importance (order of importance) , the turntable (platform) is the most important in the vinyl chain. Flat idler drive, slippery belt, electronic circuitry in the drive system that goes awry will cause the system to fail miserably even if you have the best tonearm and cartridge installed. Anything wrong with the tt affects the outcome of every other part down the chain.

As much as we love the exotic cartridges, isn't it funny that some prefer a conical cartridge when it comes to pure enjoyment of music. I remember the late Art Dudley mentioning that.
 
cason said:
Above, I was referring to replacing the original Ortofon Red stylus with the replacement Ortofon Blue stylus. It is an impressive difference to my ears.
Click to expand...
And my OP did not explain very well. I had purchased an Ortofon Blue from a private party as an upgrade to my turntable. But the stylus is damaged. I told the guy I bought it from this and of course he swears it was working perfectly. Maybe it was. Maybe I damaged it. So I am replacing it; hence the thread. For now I bought a Graedo Red cart for my table and it does sound great. But I am still going to get a stylus for my Ortofon.

Thanks for adding to this thread
 
At and near the null points I doubt stylus shape makes much difference, as tracking error will be minimal. It’s at the inner groove where fancy cuts surpass the inherent inability of a conical stylus to track the groove (pinch effect and sibilance). You pay a lot for a little improvement, but once it is important to you, it is difficult to go back to a conical.
 
If you're going to replace the stylus on the Blue, I highly recommend you buy new, from a reputable dealer. I would not trust an aftermarket stylus, at least not for a 2M. It's not cheap, but it's worth it.
 
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