How much difference does the (quality of ) stylus make?

[raycarr00]

I accidentally dropped the balance weight once on one of the tt's and played a red and no pops, improved sound. But I go by the recommended manufacturer's specs on set up. Certainly there must be some deviation from such with consideration for the lifespan of the stylus and lp.

 

[justjed2]

I accidentally dropped the balance weight once on one of the tt's and played a red and no pops, improved sound. But I go by the recommended manufacturer's specs on set up. Certainly there must be some deviation from such with consideration for the lifespan of the stylus and lp.

I'm thinking there's probably not a whole lot of people who have worn out a 2M Red! I certainly didn't....

I'm on my second Blue stylus, and my second Bronze. That's probably as far as I'll go, I like the Concorde Music Bronze better on my SL-1800. I have the 2M Bronze set up for the Denon DP-1700, but I'm listening to LOMC carts these days, and the 2Ms just don't get any playing time. Not because I don't like them, they've just moved into a back-up role.

 

[jrtrent]

I am looking to replace my stylus on my Ortofon Blue and glancing on eBay they range from $24.90 to almost ten times that, $229.99. If I purcahsed them both would would I hear any difference in the music?

Congratulations on the Grado Red purchase; I always liked the sound Grado gave me. As to the question above, you could buy both and let your ears tell you if they differ, which is better, and which is the better value for your ears and system. At the moment, I can't recall whether I've owned an after-market stylus or not, but I have read posts here at AK from people who have had both good and bad experiences with them. My feeling is that no matter what cartridge or stylus you own, there's always something "better" available, but the point is to have something that lets you enjoy your records. Cheaper replacement styli, if they're good enough to enjoy, make it easier cost-wise to enjoy more hours of listening and to not worry too much if a friend or family member (or oneself) accidentally trashes the stylus; for me, anyway, those are factors in the enjoyment of playing vinyl, too.

 

[sanford12]

Why not expand your cart horizons and try something new. Went from Denon 103 to a VM540ML and like the AT more as good as the Denon was. The VM540ML punches above it's price point.

 

[Sleiven]

Hi, The stylus certainly can make an improvement, but this is when you more from Elliptical to Shibata (very difficult to set up correctly) or even better & a little easier to set up Micro Line.
This is what several cartridge manufacturers do with the cartridge line Ortofon go from Conical with the OM5 the OM40 having a high end nude FG 70 tip. Similar with the basic Red cat to the Black. Again Denon did this with their DL-300 MC cart through to the 305. However as well you really need to also upgrade the cantilever at the same time. So you have the basic Carbon Fiber, then aluminum, Boron & even Sapphire.

But the statement that the cart is responsible for 95% of the sound is totally wrong. The arm is the biggest contributor, it is the arms ability to allow the cart to retrieve the subtle information from the LP grooves. I would put is about at a 60/40 split. A cheap cart on a good arm will always sound better than a expensive cart on a cheap arm.

Cheers

I do not agree, - that cartridge does not make the biggest difference, but the arm- I had the opportunity to listen to same cartridge on same turntable with different arms- simultaneously . The difference are there but only a small nuance in playback could be noticed. I also have 2 turntables parallel to compare myself, one with a vastly superior arm, but the problems the inferior arm have goes easy unnoticed. I actually have 4 turntables and the cartridge character remains the same on all TT. Yes tonearms matter and we can prove the difference by measurements, but the difference between cartridges are far greater, just take a look at the cartridge library on ASR. The effect of going to a better cartridge say Microridge is quite noticeable, but I agree an advanced shape needs more careful alignment to show it’s best

If the objective is to improve sound the most cost effective way is to upgrade the cartridge first is my opinion.

 

[flavio81]

At and near the null points I doubt stylus shape makes much difference, as tracking error will be minimal. It’s at the inner groove where fancy cuts surpass the inherent inability of a conical stylus to track the groove (pinch effect and sibilance). You pay a lot for a little improvement, but once it is important to you, it is difficult to go back to a conical.

Dear and esteemed Dr. Fuse,

I have many records which can be played with no sibilance, no pinch effects, down to the inner grooves with the cheap and cheerful AT-91R cartridge with conical stylus. The sound quality will surprise you, once fitted on a high quality tonearm.

Many, many records are cut conservatively, that is, intended to be traced with a conical down to the inner grooves. I would dare to say more than 95% of them are cut in a way that they would reproduce cleanly with a conical.

Whenever somebody has sibilance or other distortion problems at the inner groove, and those problems dissapear when fitting a Microline or Shibata needle, you can be almost certain the problem was due to groove damage / groove wear, not due to the conical stylus intrisincally being unable to track. And, IMO, that's the main reason to use line contact stylus: to be able to play damaged records cleanly.

 

[sanford12]

Micro line I've read are cut to mimic the needle that cuts the master. First time I played the VM540ML it was a, Well I never heard that before moment. Every time I play a LP it makes me smile.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Playing around with Ortofon MM cartridges is one of the reasons I went to MC. There was a lot of experimenting with stylus, cartridges, and alignments. But somehow, in some way, in my system, they were lacking.

With microtips or Shibata, alignment is everything. You need to be patient and do it right the first time.

 

[sanford12]

When I installed the VM540ML got lucky the first time. It needed very little to algin it after the install

 

[Matonanjin3]

And my OP did not explain very well. I had purchased an Ortofon Blue from a private party as an upgrade to my turntable. But the stylus is damaged. I told the guy I bought it from this and of course he swears it was working perfectly. Maybe it was. Maybe I damaged it. So I am replacing it; hence the thread. For now I bought a Graedo Red cart for my table and it does sound great. But I am still going to get a stylus for my Ortofon.

Thanks for adding to this thread

Why not expand your cart horizons and try something new. Went from Denon 103 to a VM540ML and like the AT more as good as the Denon was. The VM540ML punches above it's price point.

Huh?!?! Isn't that what I did? the purpose of this thread?

 

[tabarddn51]

Went from Denon 103 to a VM540ML and like the AT more as good as the Denon was. The VM540ML punches above it's price point.
Hi, Unless you changed your arm, one of those two carts you have been a complete mismatch. The Denon is low compliance & needs a very heavy arm to sound its best. The AT is medium compliance & needs a medium weight arm.

Cheers

 

[cafe latte]

Hi, The stylus certainly can make an improvement, but this is when you more from Elliptical to Shibata (very difficult to set up correctly) or even better & a little easier to set up Micro Line.
This is what several cartridge manufacturers do with the cartridge line Ortofon go from Conical with the OM5 the OM40 having a high end nude FG 70 tip. Similar with the basic Red cat to the Black. Again Denon did this with their DL-300 MC cart through to the 305. However as well you really need to also upgrade the cantilever at the same time. So you have the basic Carbon Fiber, then aluminum, Boron & even Sapphire.

But the statement that the cart is responsible for 95% of the sound is totally wrong. The arm is the biggest contributor, it is the arms ability to allow the cart to retrieve the subtle information from the LP grooves. I would put is about at a 60/40 split. A cheap cart on a good arm will always sound better than a expensive cart on a cheap arm.

Cheers

Boron is far better than sapphire even if some charge more for the latter.
Chris

 

[Quadman2]

I've often thought that some owners tend to focus on one component in an audio system, rather than assess all the parts that make the whole end result.

One might have a top notch cartridge, but it has to be mounted correctly with a stylus in good shape, and as already the mentioned, the rest of the system should align with each other in the ability to perform.

Q

 

[Matonanjin3]

Boron is far better than sapphire even if some charge more for the latter.
Chris

Better in what way and why do you say that?

 

[sanford12]

Not my first rodeo. The 103 was mounted on a Empire 208. The TT that many say the 103 was made to go with. The AT is a Denon DP30L with the S arm the preferred arm for this TT. Not all of us are wondering in the wilderness.

 

[Apreggiator]

Not my first rodeo. The 103 was mounted on a Empire 208. The TT that many say the 103 was made to go with. The AT is a Denon DP30L with the S arm the preferred arm for this TT. Not all of us are wondering in the wilderness.

That (turntable) there is a thing of beauty.

 

[Apreggiator]

I've often thought that some owners tend to focus on one component in an audio system, rather than assess all the parts that make the whole end result.

The focus on cartridge upgrades is probably because of the ease and cost of upgrading versus upgrading other parts of the turntable.. But I can only assume in this respect.

This thread has certainly raised some food for thought with me.

 

[Quadman2]

The focus on cartridge upgrades is probably because of the ease and cost of upgrading versus upgrading other parts of the turntable...

Usually true on this "account", but with high grade/performance cartridges, they may in some cases rival the cost factor of one of the other components.

Q

 

[cafe latte]

Better in what way and why do you say that?

A good cantilever material needs to be stiff and light, boron is much lighter and more stiff than Sapphire.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

The focus on cartridge upgrades is probably because of the ease and cost of upgrading versus upgrading other parts of the turntable.. But I can only assume in this respect.

This thread has certainly raised some food for thought with me.

Many cartridges are over 10k, and there are a lot well over that. I see every week cartridges over 20k ( Australian dollars) and some well over that.
Chris