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Hpm-Econo Redo, Aka Kpm-10.0

Yew be right on that price andyman! sorry it was just to early for me today....
DC
 
Update.

Made a few xover adjustments, tried a few more amps and I think were pretty much there. (xover wise)
When I get a chance I'll show them in action and try to get a good pic of there Mini stands.

These things are really starting to grow on me the more I use them. :smoke:
Still have a couple other things to finish an tweak as well, can never stop completly?

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(I like R100 12.5ohm better) :)
Here's an attachment showing what I believe will be the final xover. ;)
(Just in case anyone wants to take a beat up pair of HPM's and build these) :D
 

Attachments

  • Wooger_HPM_m6.GIF
    Wooger_HPM_m6.GIF
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Nice work, KEGGER!

I think more E'Wavers will be building with HPM-100 woofers; there's already been inquiries in the main thread. We can link them here for the benefit of your tweaks.... :thmbsp:
 
Thank You Zilch for getting the speaker juices flowing again. (And Jack) :thmbsp:

I've built a few speakers in the past but the last few years has turned to the electronics.
(Kinda nice to do some speakers again, ecspecially ones that fit into my needs/wants)

Yah I figured a seperate thread for those wanting to follow along with others specific designs
may make it a bit easier to follow along, still should/need to read the original thread though to.:yes:
 
Did a foam test in the throat of the horn, liked the results and tweaked the values just
slightly in the xover to even things back up a bit, (old post is updated as of today).

I'll post about the foam, but wanted to get the actual values I used in the xover posted.
Also (R 100) can be used to tailor a bit of the sound to someones preference of either a
bit more or less mid band output, 10 - 15ohm is what I'd suggest with the smaller resistor
giving you less output in that range and the larger one giving you a little more there.
(R100 12.5ohm for me)

Dave gave me some other foam today which I'll test compaired to what I'm using currently.

(Got a call that someone else local may want to build a pair of these so the updates) :thmbsp:
 
Kegger, I'm really tempted to try the 'horn thang'. I have a pair of HPM 100s that wouldn't miss their woofers too much. I'd build new cabinets from ply and order the Selenium and JBL horn parts, as suggested. The optimum cabinet measurements are the same as the HPM-100 cabs, with the internal midrange section removed- is this correct?
Also, I lack confidence to interpret the crossover design. Can anyone help me with a simplified X-over diagram of what to solder where? A photo of a finished unit would be great.
 
Here are links to Parts-Express for the caps, resistors an coils I have been asked about for this speaker.

(to build a pair of speakers is the following list)

(for the R's in the schematic)
Pick up 4 of the 15ohm, and 2 of the 30ohm, may want to get a pair of 12.5ohm to experiment at R100.
http://www.partsexpress.com/mills-crossover-resistors.cfm

(For the C's in the schematic)
For C1 I would suggest a pair of these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-924&DID=7

For C2 and C100 I would suggest a pair of each of these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-426
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-432

For .22 and .10 I suggest a high quality cap, maybe a russian PIO or the like, if not a pair each of these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-452
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-454

If using a PIO or other quality cap above (besides the dayton) then these for C3
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-456

Otherwise a pair of these for C3 using the .10 dayton film as bypass for this cap should be just fine here.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-404

If you wanted to use some more .10 bypass caps on each of the C2 and C100 would not hurt here either.

(For the L's in the schematic)
For L1 I'd use a pair of these guy's.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=255-234&DID=7
If you wanted to splurge a bit then these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=255-412&DID=7

For L2 a pair of these should be just fine.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=266-832

The HPM 100 Speakers have .6mh coils and L-Pads you could use from them as well.
(I did use the HPM L-Pads but opted for the larger Jantzen 15ga .6mh coils)

By all means if you have your own parts laying around then use what you have available.
The parts I suggest are critical for quality are all the caps and resistors in the tweeters sections.
Then you'll need a pair of 8ohm L-pads, plenty to choose from there and those should be good quality.

The "Econowave" thread has parts lists in it as well an may have other suggestions from mine, not saying
one is definitely preferred over the other and a person may want to investigate both of them for a decision.
 
Spectrum77 said:
Kegger, I'm really tempted to try the 'horn thang'. I have a pair of HPM 100s that wouldn't miss their woofers too much. I'd build new cabinets from ply and order the Selenium and JBL horn parts, as suggested. The optimum cabinet measurements are the same as the HPM-100 cabs, with the internal midrange section removed- is this correct?

That's what I did but a larger cabinet would give even better results, 5-7 ft^3 tuned to 25hz looks outstanding. (If Building) :)

Also, I lack confidence to interpret the crossover design. Can anyone help me with a simplified X-over diagram of what to solder where? A photo of a finished unit would be great.
Click to expand...

A photo of my xover would not help at all as I've got wires everwhere and parts on both sides of the board.

If I can lay some parts out on a board and it looks like it's helpful I'll do that an post a pic. But the wiring is
pretty much straight forward and I think if you study the schematic after you have all the parts to layout it
will line up for you to where it will be understandable. :)

EDIT: Suggest more like 4-6 Cu. Ft. cab tuned to 28hz.
 
Thanks for the info. Would you please clarify '... 5-7ft^3'? And I'm sure you're right about the X-over, can't be too difficult.
 
Andyman said:
I think he means 5-7 cubic feet in volume.
Click to expand...


Yep what Andy said.

-
-
On a personal note the best resistor size for me at position R100 is 12.5ohm and are available in the Mills.
(After a lot of trials and listening) :yes:
 
I took a trip to Keg's after work today to have a listen. There wasn't much I could criticize, if anything at all. I wouldn't mind playing around with the bass a bit, maybe a bigger ported enclosure or sealing up the current one, but as is, it was surprisingly good. I assumed the EWG top end would sound good. I was leary about that HPM woofers bass. Turned out the HPM woofers tuned to 29hz in this case, provide extended, detailed bass. One of the tracks had some cello (i believe) in it, and you could hear the higher freq vibration of the bow moving across the strings as well as the fundamental frequencies. Male and female voices were very smooth and detailed. No sibilance that I could pick up.

There were times where i cringed in anticipation, waiting for something bad to happen and they just played whatever signal hit them.

Comparing to the other high efficiency systems I've heard that impressed me, I'd say that considering the pedigree (HPM and cheap waveguides), these did a nice job holding their own. The Gedlee Summas (with subs) had deeper bass, and were more transparent, and probably had a bit more 3-D effect to the soundstage. The Unity Horn/Lambda System was significantly more dynamic with a bit more extension at both freq extremes. But again, these things were quite good and considering the cost of admission, I'd have no problem recommending his crossover to anyone considering HPM 100 woofers.

I found the top end actually better Edgarhorn Titans (not surprising as I am not a huge fan of tractrix horns). Bottom end couldn't match the titans impact.

If these cost 2k, i'd be happy with the performance. For a few hundred, I'm excited for AKers and others to have the opportunity to hear these.

There are also an awful lot of audiophile bookshelf speakers that run in the 5-10k range that wouldn't hold a candle to these.
 
Also, I wanted to add that Keggers dungeon probably isn't the greatest space for a wide open, spacious soundstage. Like some other insane individuals ( *whistles innocently* ), he has a lot of stuff in the room. I'd be very interested to hear these with some space around them. As is, they imaged very well in 2 dimensions (width and height) but i was having a hard time detecting depth to the soundstage. I suspect in a more ideal environment, they'd do well with that, as well.
 
dnewma04 said:
If these cost 2k, i'd be happy with the performance. For a few hundred, I'm excited for AKers and others to have the opportunity to hear these.

There are also an awful lot of audiophile bookshelf speakers that run in the 5-10k range that wouldn't hold a candle to these.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. Yes, there are better speakers. But, I haven't heard better speakers for anything close to $150.. These are really fantastic for anything remotely close to their price.
 
P.E. order done... shipping was killer to Japan! $90.00 :sigh: Detailed info made ordering painless- thanks. Next step is to get up in the middle of the night and phone JBL.
Re. cabinet dimensions: I was bamboozled by a couple of online speaker cabinet calculators. Sealed enclosure vs ported, Golden ratio... Has anyone built a 7 cubic foot cab, and if so, what are the external measurements? Sorry to ask so many questions!
 
If you download (WINISD) you can put in the woofer parameters, choose your box size
then it will calculate your port lengths based on the diameter and QTY you've choosen,
it will also give you the golden ratio dimensions based on the thickness of wood.

By doing the calculations an if all goes according to them I suggest a 6 cubic foot box.
So if you choose a 6ft box tuned to 28hz using 2 3" wide ports and 3/4" wood you get.

Ports being 6" long, with the box roughly 24" wide x 37" tall x 15" deep, now put some
stuffing in there along the sides an back, a few braces an maybe double thick the baffle
for added strength and you'd have one sweet bass cabinet. I'd love to build this for me!

If your going to mount the horn in the cabinet, I'd suggest trying to get the woofers to
mount on the inside of the front baffle, then either tilt or build some mini stands that tilt
the top of the cab back at slight upward angle which should align the drivers pretty well.

And don't worry about the questions, I had someone else ask for a xover pic as well so
I'm gunna lay it out an see if it can be made to be understood better then post the pic.
 
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