I`m waiting for the day............
- Thread starter Kptn Howdie
- Start date
DaWoofer
Super Member
I wish I still had my Pioneer Supertuner, that thing could pull in Chicago stations from my location without effort. I haven't seen one that could since. Does anyone remember the big Craig system that mounted on the hump that was direct competition to the ST? I remember it being the second most sought after unit of the era, although I'm not sure if it was as sensitive as the ST.
roadie1
Super Member
'd................R1
:yes:
Dr. Music
Super Member
OH yeah. I HAD one
I spent who knows how many months persuading a buddy of mine to sell me his.... he finally relented just to get me to shut up and because he needed the cash for partying
. It was stolen out of my car at some point. I also had one of the slide in Craigs you mounted under your dashboard; durable as hell, I had that pretty baby for years!
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
Since this is an audio system and there is no mention of high fidelity, then the owner is getting probably what he wants, a system to reproduce audio frequencies loud enough to cause folks to go wow.
No indication that anyone here would want that kind of audio system instead of a High Fidelity audio system.
What folks do with there toys is hilarious.
No indication that anyone here would want that kind of audio system instead of a High Fidelity audio system.
What folks do with there toys is hilarious.
"Home systems will always beat a car system in terms of quality - mainly because a car interior is a very challenging environment. You have soft bass-absorbing seats, reflective windows and of course limited space for the drivers to integrate."
With as much of a car's interior being absorptive, you'll have a hard time finding an interior that's as bad as what's in most homes. It's easier to get good sound in a car, IMO and definitely can use smaller speakers to get this because of the small interior volume of the space and the transfer function of the speakers/space. This opinion comes from having done over 5000 car systems in over 25 years. I have seen incredibly flat frequency response results in cars, using the 1dB/segment and don't expect to ever see this in a home or commercial space that hasn't been extensively treated.
"Oh, and there's very few design limitations in home audio components, whereas a car system must use a reasonable amount of power and of course be small enough to fit inside a car. A home amp for example, could consist of two 150lb monoblocks (Mark Levinson anyone?), whereas in a car this would simply not be possible."
You could use the same amps in a car, as long as the B+ needed could be developed, which it can, by using an oscillator and transformer and is just as dependent on what's supplying the voltage as the 120V/220V circuit. Ten 12V batteries in series makes 120VDC with more current than a residential circuit could ever hope to supply. This would require bypassing the AC section of the power supply and modifying what's left, but it could be done.
"Class D amplification has been around since MOSFETs have been made fast enough - it just wasn't deemed hi-fi enough to be used in the home, as traditional Class AB designs sounded much better. Of course, in a car you haven't got space for a honking great heatsink, so an efficient class D amplifier was much better even taking into account the loss in quality."
Class D has been around for a long time and like anything else, as long as it was done correctly, it was just as hi-fi as anything else. People are too skeptical to see that it can work, though, and with the death grip some have on old gear (look at all of the 1970's Pioneer receivers- they aren't bad but are hardly Holy Grail equipment). As far as space, most car audio is still Class AB and if they can find room for all of the batteries and subwoofers, they can find room for the amps. Natural convection isn't the only way to cool things- fans work very well.
"Note that Class D amps are mainly used in applications where the less than hi-fi sound is not noticed as much, or where there are other things to be taken into account - for example space, weight and power consumption. Most active subwoofers use 'em."
Tell that to the engineers/designers at Linn. They have a whole series of Class D amps and they think they're incredible.
"I do agree that car technology needs to come into the home though. I'd like to see a panel by my front door telling me which windows and doors are open, just like the dashboard display on modern cars..."
Where have you been? Honeywell and other security companies have had status indicators for doors and windows for decades.
"My car audio system consists of a heavily modified cheapo Chinese amp bridged to mono, driving a PA speaker wedged in the boot (trunk for you US-ians
). It's fed by my MP3 player through a simple attenuator preamp. Cost: £0.00. I'm a cheap student."
I really hope your MP3 player is sending lossless data and not just regular MP3 files. If not, you're shooting holes in your whole argument about sound quality.
With as much of a car's interior being absorptive, you'll have a hard time finding an interior that's as bad as what's in most homes. It's easier to get good sound in a car, IMO and definitely can use smaller speakers to get this because of the small interior volume of the space and the transfer function of the speakers/space. This opinion comes from having done over 5000 car systems in over 25 years. I have seen incredibly flat frequency response results in cars, using the 1dB/segment and don't expect to ever see this in a home or commercial space that hasn't been extensively treated.
"Oh, and there's very few design limitations in home audio components, whereas a car system must use a reasonable amount of power and of course be small enough to fit inside a car. A home amp for example, could consist of two 150lb monoblocks (Mark Levinson anyone?), whereas in a car this would simply not be possible."
You could use the same amps in a car, as long as the B+ needed could be developed, which it can, by using an oscillator and transformer and is just as dependent on what's supplying the voltage as the 120V/220V circuit. Ten 12V batteries in series makes 120VDC with more current than a residential circuit could ever hope to supply. This would require bypassing the AC section of the power supply and modifying what's left, but it could be done.
"Class D amplification has been around since MOSFETs have been made fast enough - it just wasn't deemed hi-fi enough to be used in the home, as traditional Class AB designs sounded much better. Of course, in a car you haven't got space for a honking great heatsink, so an efficient class D amplifier was much better even taking into account the loss in quality."
Class D has been around for a long time and like anything else, as long as it was done correctly, it was just as hi-fi as anything else. People are too skeptical to see that it can work, though, and with the death grip some have on old gear (look at all of the 1970's Pioneer receivers- they aren't bad but are hardly Holy Grail equipment). As far as space, most car audio is still Class AB and if they can find room for all of the batteries and subwoofers, they can find room for the amps. Natural convection isn't the only way to cool things- fans work very well.
"Note that Class D amps are mainly used in applications where the less than hi-fi sound is not noticed as much, or where there are other things to be taken into account - for example space, weight and power consumption. Most active subwoofers use 'em."
Tell that to the engineers/designers at Linn. They have a whole series of Class D amps and they think they're incredible.
"I do agree that car technology needs to come into the home though. I'd like to see a panel by my front door telling me which windows and doors are open, just like the dashboard display on modern cars..."
Where have you been? Honeywell and other security companies have had status indicators for doors and windows for decades.
"My car audio system consists of a heavily modified cheapo Chinese amp bridged to mono, driving a PA speaker wedged in the boot (trunk for you US-ians
). It's fed by my MP3 player through a simple attenuator preamp. Cost: £0.00. I'm a cheap student."I really hope your MP3 player is sending lossless data and not just regular MP3 files. If not, you're shooting holes in your whole argument about sound quality.
Oh, yeah- quantity does NOT equal quality and one person's idea of "clean sound" is definitely NOT the same as everyone else's. I did a system in a Pontiac GTA and before he came in, his Orion free air subs, which had been in a fluffy carpeted board with leaks all around the edges, had been stolen. He said he wanted it to sound really clean for the IASCA event the next Saturday. Built the box after modeling it, installed the speakers/hd unit/amps/crossover/equalizer and whatever upgrades to power supply. Set the EQ/input sensitivity levels, etc and he went through the line. That system imaged better than just about any other that I have heard- was incredibly smooth, dynamic and powerful without being particularly high powered. The RTA test scored 37 out of a possible 40 points and because nobody had seen a score that high, they re-tested it two more times. He won RTA, sound quality, noise level, got his 5 bonus points for being able to mute the audio system and IIRC, took 2nd for the whole show. He hated the sound so much that he went right over to the MTX booth, bought one of their Bass CDs, went to a secluded part of the parking lot and proceeded to intentionally blow the crap out of the woofers. Everyone who listened to his car agreed that it was exceptionally clean sounding, but he though that the mud he had been listening to before was "clean". It may have been loud, but it couldn't possibly have been clean.
I usually look for a license plate bracket that wants to disintegrate as the sign of a truly great car audio system. Add some chunks of rust falling out- perfection!
Having both is possible. I did a '73 Pontiac Grand Prix- black with the red French Whorehouse interior (I'm sure you know what this is) with Nakamichi amps, Audio Control EQ/Crossover/Epicenter (he had it before but never used it after), Alpine head unit and Boston Acoustics speakers. 4-1/2" separates with 6-1/2" mid-bass in the front doors, 5-1/4" separates in the 4"x10" rear deck holes and 4 Pro 10" woofers. He wanted good and loud, which he definitely got. I never really had much of a chance to fine tune the system before he came in one Saturday to tell me that he was going to Chicago for the regional IASCA competition that day. I commented that I never tweaked it and he told me that he was only going for fun. The 500W+ class is always the largest category in the big regionals and he took second place. He let us display the trophy for quite a while and he was beaming when he came in after he won.
That was one of the most musical sounding systems I have done and I hate most of the words used to describe the way systems sound. I always tried to make people say "WOW!, but not because of the sheer volume. I had a guy who started laughing when he heard his system for the first time. I really liked that one, too.
dude, i do my own installation.......................................
[IMG
your opinions are bias based upon the genre of this forum. to say that a car audio system has no sound quality is YOUR interpretation. you should post that comment on "sound domain forums" and see what kind of responses you get.
also, there are alot of industry`s that are hurting right now besides car audio.
i guess the sub-prime mortgage crisis down in your neck of the woods will never effect the ever so strong economics of home audio (lol), or is that related to the high x-max, expensive subwoofers as well.
denial (it seems) is not just the river in Egypt.:yes:
Did that screwdriver cause any damage when you closed the hood?
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