Inner Groove Distortion...

[D.E.K]

Hey;

I have a Pioneer PL-S40 turntable (I know not the best out there) with the original Pioneer stylus. I am having inner groove distortion problems. It happens with every LP I play on either side when the last song on each side plays. From what I read on Google, it is caused by either damaged record, poor tonearm alignment or a bad stylus. All of the LP's I tried were used, however, I have about 15 factory sealed, brand new LP's. I am planning on sacrificing one and see if the same problem occurs. Meanwhile, I am looking for a decent stylus which will eliminate or at least minimize the problem. I am leaning towards Rega Bias 2

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rega-Bias-2-Mov...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Any ideas on the inner groove distortion problem and suggestions on quality stylus is welcomed.

Cheers;
Des

 

[synclavier82]

If you want to minimize inner-groove distortion, I would highly recommend the Audio Technica AT440MLa. One of it's characteristics is that it's supposed to greatly reduce inner-groove distortion. I'm using it right now and, for the most part, that's what it does. I'm not saying you won't ever notice it, but it will be greatly reduced.

You can find it for about 90-100 bucks new including shipping if you look around.

EDIT: I'm sure there are other carts out there that will achieve a similar effect, but this is the one I'm most familiar with, as I just got one on Tuesday.

 

[beans]

We need to hear you say you're sure the cartridge is aligned correctly... after all, that is what your Google search probably was talking about with regard to "tonearm alignment".

 

[synclavier82]

We need to hear you say you're sure the cartridge is aligned correctly... after all, that is what your Google search probably was talking about with regard to "tonearm" alignment".

Easier said than done. I'm not even sure mine is aligned properly. I know it's close, but that's about all I can say.

 

[hakaplan]

No cartridge will sound right unless it is properly aligned. Here is the alignment for the Pioneer straight arms. Keep the headshell square with the cartridge. (The front of the cartridge should be parallel with the front of the headshell.)

 

[beans]

Easier said than done. I'm not even sure mine is aligned properly. I know it's close, but that's about all I can say.

I understand. I just put a Stanton 681 on a ProJect tonearm, and I must have aligned it pretty well because it sounds good in the inner grooves... I just got lucky... the 681EEE is relatively sensitive to alignment.

 

[synclavier82]

I understand. I just put a Stanton 681 on a ProJect tonearm, and I must have aligned it pretty well because it sounds good in the inner grooves... I just got lucky... the 681EEE is relatively sensitive to alignment.

Yeah... I have a couple records with epic tracks in the inner grooves (Television's Marquee Moon and Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, for example) And they both sound fine. So, I must have gotten it pretty close. I mean, when you just look at it, it looks pretty darn square with the headshell...

 

[D.E.K]

I played with the headshell and the cartridge all night last night. I also aligned it to the dimensions hakaplan gave. No luck. I believe the records are damaged. Some are worse than others. Queensryche's "Warning" sounds much better (still distorted but totally bearable) than Accept's "Metal Heart" on the inner grooves. I also have Dio's "Sacred Heart" which has distortion on all the songs except the first tracks on each side. I need to spend $150-$200 and get a decent cartridge. Needless to mention a good turntable. I am after a Pioneer PL-630 this weekend.

 

[synclavier82]

I played with the headshell and the cartridge all night last night. I also aligned it to the dimensions hakaplan gave. No luck. I believe the records are damaged. Some are worse than others. Queensryche's "Warning" sounds much better (still distorted but totally bearable) than Accept's "Metal Heart" on the inner grooves. I also have Dio's "Sacred Heart" which has distortion on all the songs except the first tracks on each side. I need to spend $150-$200 and get a decent cartridge. Needless to mention a good turntable. I am after a Pioneer PL-630 this weekend.

Sure, the records could just be thrashed. In that case it doesn't matter how good your equipment is or whether it's properly configured.

Like I said though, an AT440MLa can be had for about 90 bucks after shipping. Check out this review of the cartridge over on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bqQZhoYC_o

 

[D.E.K]

Looks like a decent cartridge. Though I can't find it for $90 on ebay. Where do you see $90?

 

[synclavier82]

Looks like a decent cartridge. Though I can't find it for $90 on ebay. Where do you see $90?

I'll private message you about that... I don't know if we're supposed to be talking about it here.

 

[D.E.K]

Sure, that'd be great. Thanks

 

[Metalownz]

I played with the headshell and the cartridge all night last night. I also aligned it to the dimensions hakaplan gave. No luck. I believe the records are damaged. Some are worse than others. Queensryche's "Warning" sounds much better (still distorted but totally bearable) than Accept's "Metal Heart" on the inner grooves. I also have Dio's "Sacred Heart" which has distortion on all the songs except the first tracks on each side. I need to spend $150-$200 and get a decent cartridge. Needless to mention a good turntable. I am after a Pioneer PL-630 this weekend.

Great taste in music there my friend! I have The Warning, and its perfect. However, my Metal Heart album has distortion on the song Teach Us To Survive. That pisses me off because thats one of my favorites on the album. Im yet to get Sacred Heart. I held it in my hand at a music store last night, but decided on something else.

 

[D.E.K]

Cheers! Yeah that's where the distortion begins on my LP, Teach Us to Survive. Then it gets much worse on Bound to Fail, it's so bad it's almost impossible to listen. Udo's screeching, tearing vocals don't help matters either. Lately I've constantly been looking 'you know where' for factory sealed (not cut-out or promo but original) LP's for auction. So far I was able to grab Dio's Dream Evil, Deep Purple's House of Blue Light, Queensryche's Promised Land and Rage for Order, Scorpions' Savage Amusement and Manowar's Sign of the Hammer. The problem is, I don't have the heart to open one up and listen. Especially without a properly aligned, good quality turntable with a decent cartridge that will not cause any groove damage.

\m/

 

[Metalownz]

Cheers! Yeah that's where the distortion begins on my LP, Teach Us to Survive. Then it gets much worse on Bound to Fail, it's so bad it's almost impossible to listen. Udo's screeching, tearing vocals don't help matters either. Lately I've constantly been looking 'you know where' for factory sealed (not cut-out or promo but original) LP's for auction. So far I was able to grab Dio's Dream Evil, Deep Purple's House of Blue Light, Queensryche's Promised Land and Rage for Order, Scorpions' Savage Amusement and Manowar's Sign of the Hammer. The problem is, I don't have the heart to open one up and listen. Especially without a properly aligned, good quality turntable with a decent cartridge that will not cause any groove damage.

\m/

Yeah i know what you mean. A badly aligned cartridge will screw your records up big time. I have a couple of new records on the way, and im hoping my cart is in good alignment. The distortion begins on mine in the same spot, and gets worse also. Hmm, thats odd...

 

[WopOnTour]

It still sounds like an alignment issue since it happens on all of your albums.
Bad alignment and vintage heavy metal bliss do not mix
I'll try to find a protractor to help

In the meantime...
Here's what was on my TT tonight
Needless to say we were into it

WopOnTour

 

[Metalownz]

It still sounds like an alignment issue since it happens on all of your albums.
Bad alignment and vintage heavy metal bliss do not mix
I'll try to find a protractor to help

In the meantime...
Here's what was on my TT tonight
Needless to say we were into it

WopOnTour

Straight to the toppp!!! Tooth and Nail!! Ha ha.

 

[D.E.K]

I don't think ALL my records are damaged. If it happens on every record, that means there's something wrong with the equipment. I am going to go ahead and purchase the cartridge synclavier82 recommended. I believe it will make a world of difference.

 

[synclavier82]

I don't think ALL my records are damaged. If it happens on every record, that means there's something wrong with the equipment. I am going to go ahead and purchase the cartridge synclavier82 recommended. I believe it will make a world of difference.

Cool man, I think you'll be pleased. I've listened to many records since yesterday, particularly listening for IGD, and I really did not come across too many instances of it. In fact, I can only think of one album that it was apparent on, Tangerine Dream's Rubycon. And, that album, despite looking very nice, is relatively noisy anyways. So, my bet is that it's the record, in this case.

So, I think for the money, the MLa is a pretty safe bet. Obviously, make sure you get it aligned with the headshell as closely as you can. Good luck with it.

 

[jrtrent]

I've been using my GEO-DISC since 1985 with good results. They're about $50.00 now, but well worth the price considering the use you'll get from it over time. Very simple to use. If you have Microsoft Excel, John Ellison's Baerwald spreadsheet is fun to play with to see how tonearm length, overhang, and alignment angle interact to determine null points and distortion across the album surface. Proper, accurate alignment becomes even more important with microline styli such as on the AT cartridge you're buying.