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Integrated Amp for Thiel CS1?

M

mpabrams

New Member
Hey everyone. I haven't really posted before and if you all are willing, I need some help.

I recently acquired a pair of Thiel CS1 speakers, but my current receiver doesn't cut it (Sansui R-410).

Based on what I've read, it seems like I need an integrated amp that has enough wattage for 4 Ohm impedance as these speakers are "power hungry".

I'd like to try the NAD C316BEE v2.

Is that an ok option? I know it's listed at 40 watts, but it seems like everyone says that is a very conservative rating.

My budget is $500, so I know I'm not going to be getting the best amp in the world. I do, however, want to get something great, reliable, and LOUD.

I'm also seeing I need good "cables". Is this speaker wire? I'm confused about this...

Thanks for the help everyone!
 
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You need more than that amp will provide. NAD vis great (I have several) but they do have their limits.

I'd be looking at a minimum of 100 watts, and you'll probably want a subwoofer as well.

CS1.6 2-way bass-reflex speaker
Drivers: short-coil, long-gap, 1" aluminum tweeter; 6.5" metal-cone woofer with 3" voice coil
Frequency responses: 48Hz-20kHz, -3dB; 50Hz-20kHz, ±2dB
Phase response: ±10degrees
Sensitivity: 90dB/2.8V/m
Impedance: 4ohms nominal, 3ohms minimum
Recommended power: 50-300W

don't get hung up on that "good" cable/speaker wire stuff. Decent 12 gauge from Lowes or Amazon will do.
 
Given your requirements, I would suggest an amplifier rated to deliver at least 80-120 watts into a 4 ohm load, and with a 4 ohm rating that is at least 50% greater than its 8 ohm rating.

I am assuming you have the original CS1. If not please clarify your version.

BTW...we all have different ideas of "LOUD", but your Thiels are not likely to be capable of concert-level loudness. If that is your goal, you may want to look for speakers with a much higher sensitivity rating.
 
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If you want "LOUD" you're going to need a lot more than 40W. CS1 are rated at 6ohm and 87db efficiency, so I think @spark1 is on the right track, but I would be aiming for more like 100+ watts as an 8-ohm rating with a 50+% higher 4-ohm rating.
 
the skipper said:
You need more than that amp will provide. NAD vis great (I have several) but they do have their limits.

I'd be looking at a minimum of 100 watts, and you'll probably want a subwoofer as well.

CS1.6 2-way bass-reflex speaker
Drivers: short-coil, long-gap, 1" aluminum tweeter; 6.5" metal-cone woofer with 3" voice coil
Frequency responses: 48Hz-20kHz, -3dB; 50Hz-20kHz, ±2dB
Phase response: ±10degrees
Sensitivity: 90dB/2.8V/m
Impedance: 4ohms nominal, 3ohms minimum
Recommended power: 50-300W

don't get hung up on that "good" cable/speaker wire stuff. Decent 12 gauge from Lowes or Amazon will do.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Skipper! It is the original CS1, so I'll be on the lookout for something with stronger wattage. And I'll take your advice on the wire as well!
 
spark1 said:
Given your requirements, I would suggest an amplifier rated to deliver at least 80-120 watts into a 4 ohm load, and with a 4 ohm rating that is at least 50% greater than its 8 ohm rating.

I am assuming you have the original CS1. If not please clarify your version.

BTW...we all have different ideas of "LOUD", but your Thiels are not likely to be capable of concert-level loudness. If that is your goal, you may want to look for speakers with a much higher sensitivity rating.
Click to expand...
It's the original CS1.
 
RossW said:
If you want "LOUD" you're going to need a lot more than 40W. CS1 are rated at 6ohm and 87db efficiency, so I think @spark1 is on the right track, but I would be aiming for more like 100+ watts as an 8-ohm rating with a 50+% higher 4-ohm rating.
Click to expand...
I'm so confused with impedance. The other guys state 4 ohm, but you think the CS1 is 6 ohm?
 
mpabrams said:
Thank you so much Skipper! It is the original CS1, so I'll be on the lookout for something with stronger wattage. And I'll take your advice on the wire as well!
Click to expand...
the skipper said:
You need more than that amp will provide. NAD vis great (I have several) but they do have their limits.

I'd be looking at a minimum of 100 watts, and you'll probably want a subwoofer as well.

CS1.6 2-way bass-reflex speaker
Drivers: short-coil, long-gap, 1" aluminum tweeter; 6.5" metal-cone woofer with 3" voice coil
Frequency responses: 48Hz-20kHz, -3dB; 50Hz-20kHz, ±2dB
Phase response: ±10degrees
Sensitivity: 90dB/2.8V/m
Impedance: 4ohms nominal, 3ohms minimum
Recommended power: 50-300W

don't get hung up on that "good" cable/speaker wire stuff. Decent 12 gauge from Lowes or Amazon will do.
Click to expand...

Could you recommend some integrated amps with 100 watts?
 
How high do you want to go. Above a certain (unspecified) wattage separates become mandatory. 100 watts is about the max for integrated amps and receivers.

do you have a budget? new amps can be pricy. you might keep an eye on ebay and craigslist

Here's a couple of links to reputable dealers so you can see what you're up against.

https://www.accessories4less.com/
https://www.audioadvisor.com/?gclid...oB7x9udxYT9mJNkfTzEqKr2MyvZ7zcwsaAg1VEALw_wcB

when looking at amps, keep in mind the speaker's impedance and what the amp can handle.
 
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The "other guys" refer to 4 ohm ratings as a proxy, since few amps have a published rating into 6 ohms.

Those Thiels don't dip dramatically below 5 ohms, so not as tough to drive as some of the later/bigger Thiels.

Loudness is a function of power. Impedance determines current draw..the lower the impedance, the higher the current demanded of the amp.

The ability to provide current adequate for low impedance loads is a function of the amp's power supply, number of output transistors, and heat sinking. These are the most expensive components in traditional solid state amps...so amps capable of dealing with lower impedance loads get relatively expensive.

The 50% suggestion as regards 4 ohm rating is a proxy for minimum quality of power supply, etc. The higher this %age, the more capable the amp is of producing current into lower impedances.

BTW, an ideal amp doubles power output as impedance is halved. Very few amps do so.

One other point...Thiels are well-known for their sensitivity to amplifier quality. An amp with a grainy or harsh character will translate clearly thru these very nice speakers.
 
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With a $500 budget, I think you will be looking at something used. I'm sure there will be lots of suggestions, but perhaps a 1980s Yamaha power amp and a passive preamp. Another option might be a used Musical Fidelity integrated amp...I owned an A3.2 and liked it quite a bit. It had the power and current capabilities you need, but I don't know about how they hold up over time (or what the used prices are like).
 
the skipper said:
How high do you want to go. Above a certain (unspecified) wattage separates become mandatory. 100 watts is about the max for integrated amps and receivers.

do you have a budget? new amps can be pricy. you might keep an eye on ebay and craigslist

Here's a couple of links to reputable dealers so you can see what you're up against.

https://www.accessories4less.com/
https://www.audioadvisor.com/?gclid...oB7x9udxYT9mJNkfTzEqKr2MyvZ7zcwsaAg1VEALw_wcB

when looking at amps, keep in mind the speaker's impedance and what the amp can handle.
Click to expand...

My hope was to stay in the $500 range, but that seems like it will limit me to the used market, which I'm fine with.
 
spark1 said:
With a $500 budget, I think you will be looking at something used. I'm sure there will be lots of suggestions, but perhaps a 1980s Yamaha power amp and a passive preamp. Another option might be a used Musical Fidelity integrated amp...I owned an A3.2 and liked it quite a bit. It had the power and current capabilities you need, but I don't know about how they hold up over time (or what the used prices are like).
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this recommendation!
 
Agree with the aforementioned...in that price range and the need for power, I'd be looking at separates. There are some decent used NAD amps/preamps out there that you could piece together for $600 range.
 
the skipper said:
You need more than that amp will provide. NAD vis great (I have several) but they do have their limits.

I'd be looking at a minimum of 100 watts, and you'll probably want a subwoofer as well.

CS1.6 2-way bass-reflex speaker
Drivers: short-coil, long-gap, 1" aluminum tweeter; 6.5" metal-cone woofer with 3" voice coil
Frequency responses: 48Hz-20kHz, -3dB; 50Hz-20kHz, ±2dB
Phase response: ±10degrees
Sensitivity: 90dB/2.8V/m
Impedance: 4ohms nominal, 3ohms minimum
Recommended power: 50-300W

don't get hung up on that "good" cable/speaker wire stuff. Decent 12 gauge from Lowes or Amazon will do.
Click to expand...

I ended up getting a Yamaha A-S501 and I've loved it so far with the Thiel CS1s.

I do want to get a subwoofer though. Based on my speakers, it looks like I'll need a sub with less that 48Hz capabilities correct? Any recommendations for a subwoofer?
 
Dayton Sub-1200. Not the last word in detail or power, but the price is right and they sound pretty good. I've got one that I run with a pair of B&W DM302. Take the money you save and buy a miniDSP UMIK-1 measurement microphone so you can use Room EQ Wizard to set the crossover correctly.
 
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