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Interconnects matter ..Do the interconnects improve with time .. burnin ??

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As a previous poster said confirmation bias (expectation bias, or the power of suggestion) can be a very powerful influence. Many years ago we had a group that met occasionally to demonstrate new audio equipment or new music acquisitions. A group member had some new high end speaker cables that he was raving about and he had asked me to try them. I did and said I could not tell a difference from my cables. The next meeting was at my house so before giving the cables back we decided to have a blind testing with the group. I used several Sheffield Labs direct to disc LPs and a Nautilus direct to disc LP. The results were roughly 50/50 except for one individual who could not tell any difference. My stereo was still playing and someone asked which cables were in use. I incorrectly said the high end but quickly realized they were my cables. I decided not to say anything and played several tracks on them before switching to the high end cables while everyone got some refreshments. After playing the same tracks again I asked what everyone thought. Except for the one individual who said he could not tell a difference, everyone said the first set of cables (which were actually my cables) were definitely superior. They used the usual terms, better clarity, transparency, detail, etc They were stunned when I told them they picked my cables.
 
I am surprised (relieved?) that no one has brought AudioQuest DBS technology to this discussion, as it is specifically aimed at dealing with this very phenomenon. I am researching a possible purchase of a set of their speaker cables and I read way more "marketecture" last night that I probably should have. In theory their little battery pack helps to energize the dielectric and get all of the atoms properly aligned, or something to that effect. It specifically addresses "break in" - the cables don't need it once the batteries have been engaged for a few days.

Something else to ponder while we all debate things which are most likely, totally in our minds.

"It's not a lie if you believe it"

-- George Costanza

jblnut
 
Decibel 116, thanks for the advice but if you take the time to look at my particular post, I was answering our science teacher who was affirming that a a cable is not a resistor. If you would have read my post, you would have seen what was inserted above. I don't have a bone to pick on this subject and all I ask is if you state a cable is not resistor and I call you up on it, back it up with scientific fact (which wasn't done). Next time you mock me, please copy the whole conversation so that the true context is crystal clear for the readers. I haven't read anything from cable manufacturers on "break in" (and I did check it out) and I understand that it is not important for them nor for most cable applications. Only in the audio realm have people elicited the possibility of a break-in period. Some may hear sonic differences, some may not and I will never challenge that but I have a hard time with people who think it is their duty to save the world from itself without proper scientific evidence. To state that a cable is not a resistor is in fact not a true statement. Thanks for the reprimand!
I never said that a cable doesn't have resistance (which it does). That is something completely different than being a "resistor". ;)
 
Someone recently mentioned rather than cable burn in maybe it's more like a persons ears adapt to the sound of new/different cables over time.
Kind of makes sense to me.

I think this is one of the most important aspects of audio understanding. And it applies to everything. The first time I tasted Scotch, I thought I just drank oven cleaner. Now, I like it. (Occasionally.)

Are we having fun yet?

I think this also gets underrated. Someone isn't going to plug their $6000 CD player into their $20,000 preamp using cables from RS. Even if they sound the same. It's "fun" to have pretty cables.
 
I drank the AQ Cool Aid Big Time. But it worked out great, I made a friend, and got to hear my masters on hi end gear. HiQ Audio, Marty, 1000 Oaks.
I remember their 95 or so catalog with all the comparison diagrams, etc. At the time (95/96) I just wanted a silver vs. copper cable, all other variables held constant set of cables. It was the only set of cables I could find where this was the case. Every other manufacturer changed other variables as well.

All half meter
Turquoise - $35-40
Ruby (the model prior to the x3, but then a cable got lost/lent to friend and replaced with Rubyx3)- $120
Emerald x3 (more than likely single crystal though they either didnt realize or care to market it) -$330
Lapisx3 (same)- $450

I also bought my stereo from him.
Balanced interconnect comparisons (mic cables)
Harmonic Tech 2 (Mr. Lee is now with Acoustic Zen, he knows his stuff) Truthlink 2-$700-800
Compared it to Monster M1000 mk3 with Neutrik made by Jim Oade ($150 or so)and the ones that came with my set of radio shack #33-3007 made by shure.

I probably went in to HiQ Audio about 15 times near closing time with my comparisons (schoeps cmxy-4v, grace designs lunatec v2, either tascam da-p1 or sony sbm-1)made at home recording my stereo as well as concerts I taped. Like I said. Im good. I dont even remember what gear he had bc at the time I was 99% record mode and 1% stereo mode. I believe he carried Threshold and Vandersteen, and I knew he carried Marantz. The Threshold amps look very, very familiar and I remember really wanting one.

I dont know if it was this or another thread I posted this to, but since I just typed it out.
 
I was arguably running “best mics”> “best cables”>“best mic pre/PS”>”best cables”> “respectable ADC”

Wish I had an Apogee AD1000.
 
It seems to me that we should not assume that we know everything about electrons, their transfer, or all of the elements involved with the transmission of signals through cables. In the relatively short history of human knowledge, and even shorter history of human knowledge about electricity, we are constantly finding new and different explanations (models... approximations, really) of what is going on.
Is it possible that there are aspects of signal transmission that may be somewhat audible in some situations, but are not measurable by currently available and understood methods? I'm inclined to say yes.
To the original point of this thread... Is it possible that these characteristics change with time and/or use in ways that may be somewhat audible in some situations, but are not measurable by currently available and understood methods? I'm inclined to say yes to this as well.
Is it likely that whatever we don't understand has a dramatic impact on sound quality? I'm less inclined to say yes.

But, if history is a teacher, the main thing we should all have learned is that almost everything we think we know will someday be proven wrong or at least overly simplistic.

All of that said, here's what my experience tells me about cables:
1. I once ordered two sets of somewhat modestly priced speaker cables (I think they were like $120ish retail per pair at the 8' length. the company is 'bettercable' but it's not their current line of products). One set went unused because they weren't long enough. Whoops! Anyway, a few months later, I tried out these previously unused pair to see if I could hear a difference between them and the others, which had been continuous use over that period. I could hear no discernible difference. I have not had a chance to try the same thing with interconnect cables.
2. After a bunch of testing and comparing, I think cables fall into three basic categories: basic/zip cord/el-cheap-o, "good", and "too expensive to be worth the marginal gain in perceived sound quality".
I and the folks I can occasionally get to play along with "sam's which-of-these-sounds-better game" seem to consistently be able to identify that the super cheap basic stuff doesn't sound as good as stuff that made with higher quality materials and good quality connectors. We also think that there is maybe some additional improvement with some of the super expensive stuff, but it's really really hard to tell, and very minor. It just seems like the return on investment drops off very rapidly when it comes to cables. I've never been able to hear the difference between $300 speaker wires and $3000 speaker wires on the rare occasions that I have had the chance to compare.

That said, here is what my experience tells me about electronics burning in:
It's real for capacitors and maybe other stuff inside the chassis.
Example 1: My Fisher tube amp definitely sounded different after I put russian PIO caps in (same values, so no frequency response changes). Then, the sound definitely changed over the course of 30ish hours of use. What's that based on? I listened Sunday morning with the old caps, replaced them that afternoon, and gave it a couple hours of listening Sunday night. The change was not hard to identify. I run my amp and tuner quietly in the background as I work each day so by the next time I had a chance to do some real listening, it had maybe 30 hours of "burn in". It was notably different than Sunday night, though not as big of a difference as the initial replacement of the caps.
Example 2: I recently overhauled a Marantz 1060 for my dad including replacing every electrolytic cap and a handful of transistors. I fired it up and was very disappointed with the sound. Bloated mid-bass, dull, sluggish, lacking any sort of clarity, definition or imaging. Sorry dad... I ruined your amp.... But I let it play/"burn in" in the background for several days while I was working. At some point on Thursday or Friday I stopped work and just listened because a MAJOR change, on par with switching between junker speakers and a really nice pair, had happened to the sound. It went from sounding bad, like worse than a 90s aiwa mini system playing a worn out cassette, to sounding really very nice. The bass tightened up, balance across the frequency band was much better, clarity and soundstage were there in abundance. I literally said to myself, out loud, "So this is why people love these amps... hmmm..." It then seemed to continue to improve over the next 10 or 15 hours, though nowhere near as dramatically. To be clear, I do not think the initial change was sudden, but just that I noticed it suddenly.

As a scientist/engineer, I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't have a reasonable explanation, but the scientific process starts with observation... I can't explain what might be happening during "burn in" on the amps, but I can attest to there being a difference in sound.
I can't say I have observed the same with cables.
Is cable burn in real? meh... there probably are some things that happen that we don't really understand, but I haven't heard it, and I have a really hard time believing that they have as big of an impact on sound as almost any other aspect of the overall system.
 
Also, for the record, I'm not an electrical engineer so I can't (and am professionally obligated not to act like I can) speak with authority on the actual goings-on of electrons. I'm a civil engineer, specifically, I work for the sewer department and manage infrastructure projects.

Your dootie is my duty.
I'm #1 with your #2.
People know me as the kind of person that doesn't take crap from anyone. They know I take crap from everyone.

(I've got excrement engineer jokes all day long...)
 
Also, for the record, I'm not an electrical engineer so I can't (and am professionally obligated not to act like I can) speak with authority on the actual goings-on of electrons. I'm a civil engineer, specifically, I work for the sewer department and manage infrastructure projects.

Your dootie is my duty.
I'm #1 with your #2.
People know me as the kind of person that doesn't take crap from anyone. They know I take crap from everyone.

(I've got excrement engineer jokes all day long...)
You should come down here to Vicksburg, they need all the help they can get with their sewers and infrastructure (especially drainage). :bigok::bowdown: Klamoss :)
 
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