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Irony of Cheap-Fi

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DavidTT

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I've been into amps of late, buying and trying multiple Class AB amplifiers, new and old. I have a Schiit Vidar on the way right now and can hardly wait until it arrives. However, it's obvious that Super-Cheap-Fi is growing fast. Cheap audio gear from China seems to be everywhere and high-quality Class D 'module' amps are increasingly penetrating the market.

Module amps are showing up in premium machines from major makers (at high prices too), but they are also available on the cheap from places like Ghent Audio, Ali Express, etc. I'm making no declarations about any of this except to wonder how these developments aren't going to gut the larger makers and boutique makers alike. I also feel like a product from a major manufacturer seems cheapened to me when they start incorporating modules in them. I was looking at power amps from NAD last night and they are moving hard into Class D, but I would frankly be pissed to pay a premium for something like a C298 only to find it hosting Purifi module boards inside.

Here's the rub for me. If a potential buyer takes the time to peak under the hood of any of these premium module amps, they'll see that inside the pretty, and expensive, Class D cases from the 'name' manufacturers, there is LOTS of open space and pre-manufactured modules wired together by someone needing zero skill to do so. These amps are often mostly empty space inside.

Newer manufacturers like Audiophonics, XTZ, VTV, SMSL and Topping (and many others) are selling module amps with boards from nCore, Hypex, Purify and Infineon that require essentially zero technical skill or knowledge to assemble, at prices ranging from Fairlawn premium to dirt cheap. One can also buy preconfigured modules from places like Parts Express, plus pre-drilled cases (from sellers like Ghent) and build amps that are functionally identical to name brand machines. I've watched plenty of videos on YT of hobbyists putting together module amps in less than an hour. How can any maker possibly keep prices on such amplifiers at any sort of premium going forward?

Further, I've read that more and more aped (or perhaps grey market) cheap module boards are being hawked by sellers on Ali Express and the bay. Once these become ubiquitous, which will soon happen even with the best Purifi boards, it's hard not to see the market for 'premium' amplifiers collapse. We're talking about amps with tons of clean, high-performance power, running efficiently and remaining cool, in little black boxes that will soon cost a hundred or two, as far as the audio-hobbyist eye can see.

I'll admit my current bias, which is that while I'm happy that great gear can be had on the cheap, I have zero interest in little black Purifi or Hypex or Infineon boxes, whether from China or anywhere else. When I was new in the hobby I would have cheered on such downward pressure on HiFi. I no longer greet the 'little black box' with the same enthusiasm.

Great sound available on the cheap? Great, but also boring as hell for those interested in audio as a hobby.
 
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I tend to think class D is getting better and better. I'd be lying if I said I knew for a fact it was as good as good classA or AB today. Personally I haven't yet heard the best of the current D stuff but so far I haven't heard a D with the presentation of a solid AB.
The market will be driven by what's cheapest or best. People looking to buy a Mac or a krell likely aren't cross shopping D amps. If you can predict the future you're a better man than me.:dunno:
 
For me, Class AB is still where it is at. Bigger yet it seems to always work and sound good. Pretty easy to take care of. For a smaller desktop system I might try Class D some day. I have already been tempted but so far have only gotten as far as bookmarking something I am interested in.

Made late 70s to early 80s when quality was still there. Before the BPC...

Chinese stuff sometimes works pretty well and other times it is marginal. I have a space heater that works great. On the other hand the air fryer that I have works well some of the time and then simply does not function when it gets too hot. The touchscreen just fails. So I have my reservations about that stuff and quality control.
 
One thing I wonder about with the new modular amps is how they will be supported in the future with regard to repairs etc. If something fails do you bascially have a boat anchor?

For example, I had a Nufore product die two weeks out of warranty. The company said the amp could not be repaired without replacing the whole board due to the way it was designed and manufactured. Basically the whole of the internals except for the PSU. They were kind enough to sell me a replacement board at cost. It's been a couple of years now and the amp is gone from their line up. If it dies again, I wonder if I could even get a new board. Ditto on an IRS2092 based amp I have, the chips for it are no longer made.

I think there was some NAD Master series amp that have this issue, if they die they cannot be repaired to the modules used. At least with some OG ab amps you can still get parts for them to repair. No really into disposible HiFi if I can avoid it.
 
Lol, but almost everything is made in China at this point. Find me something mainstream on the market that isn't, regardless of where it was assembled or boxed.
McIntosh. Most everything is in house. Metal fab, panel fab, pwb assy and test, transformer winding, etc. Sure they use some electronic components from Asia, but you can’t build anything electronic today without some Asia sourcing.
 
I'll add to all of the above the now-front-page geopolitical aspects baked into our purchasing decisions. It wasn't long ago that I, maybe along with many others, had learned to shrug about the fact that most everything we all buy comes from outside of the US (and Canada), and usually outside of the EU as well. Well, in the last number of years China has taken a very hard turn toward authoritarianism and repression of minorities, while we also now watch in horror at what is going on in Ukraine. Where does Russia turn for bolstering against the 'free world' but their traditional frenemies in China. So, I have started to look with worry, and some measure of disgust quite frankly, at all of the things that I buy that are manufactured in China. We're returning to some sort of a world of axes as opposed to the global open economy that has evolved in the last 35 years. I have absolutely no want to support economies that are on the other side of that divide.

As far as repairs to module amps, I've read elsewhere that those modules aren't repaired but instead replaced in whole. Sure, no problem but (1) is that board made in China (see above), and (2) when will it stop being produced entirely, rendering my Class D amp worthless? No big deal if it was cheap in the first place, I suppose, but wasteful too.

Two of my rationales for buying from Schiit in this latest go around were (1) made in the US from mostly parts sourced in the US, and (2) five year warranty that provides a little peace of mind regarding failures and service.
 
I agree with the previous post, except I wish that the folks that make Loki, Bifrost, et al had not gone with such a stupid name for their products. There's enough vulgarity in the world, and giving people one more excuse to use it publicly is enough to prohibit me from buying their products. Too bad, because they do interest me.
 
I’ve dipped my toes into cheap Chinese hi-fi a few times, with mixed results.

Most recently, I bought a BRZHiFi VOL-01 linestage, and am very, very satisfied. It was cheap at $80, but I’m not saying it’s “good for the money”, but just plain good. I wouldn’t hesitate to put it up against unfair competition.

Four analog inputs, Bluetooth 5.0, and a remote, powered by a a New Japan Radio IC with attenuator-on-chip. It’s a brave new world out there…

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The big problem I have with more modern gear is the use of SMD parts. I hate trying to replace those microscopic bits. I agree with an above post that Class D amps are getting better. A lot to do with it I think is the better filtering schemes.
I have several Crown pro audio amps with switching power supplies and a class D amp driving a decreet output stage. That sound pretty damn good too.
 
Ever actually heard Purifi or Hypex modules?
Unfortunately most experience with Class D amps on this site continues to be based on less than stellar builds costing less than $100.

I assume you know that Class A/B amps can be chip based and relatively tiny since thats been true for a long time now [Gainclone anyone?]
You might also want to take a look at how small the boards are in various Class A power amps.
Just because an amp needs massive heat sinks in order to make 20 watts only points to its inefficiency.

The LSA Warp 1 has received a lot of good press this past year, including picking up a few awards.
Another audio forum has been passing around a unit amongst members....some of whom have apparently never heard a decent Class D build.
http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/lsa-warp-1-power-stereo-amplifier-by-greg-voth/

The Class D amps I've assembled all have linear power supplies in the 300 to 600 watt range.
They are not lightweights in any sense of the word.

After 5 years, I've yet to have one of my amp boards fail.....and yeah, if one did, it would cost me $150 to replace it.
As far as i'm concerned, that makes me smart.
 
I've got a Peachtree Nova 150 which I believe is class D. To me it sounds pretty darn good. In fact, I returned a Yamaha A-S801 because the Nova 150 sounded better. Having said that, I hardly ever listen to the Nova 150. I'd much rather listen to my Elekit 300B or 2A3 tube amps.
 
I like all my pile of (snipped)!!!

There, I typed it out loud :yikes:

Help me understand the ratio of helpful to intentionally needling here. I've never understood why anyone enjoys posting just to annoy, offend, or stir up negativity. I thought we were exchanging friendly thoughts and opinions about audio. Of course you have the right to post that, and of course you knew it would bug me, and of course that's why you posted it. I just don't get why that's fun. Why not just say, "I don't agree with your stance, their name doesn't bother me, and I do like their gear." That's cool. I'm pretty sure I'd like it too.
 
Help me understand the ratio of helpful to intentionally needling here. I've never understood why anyone enjoys posting just to annoy, offend, or stir up negativity. I thought we were exchanging friendly thoughts and opinions about audio. Of course you have the right to post that, and of course you knew it would bug me, and of course that's why you posted it. I just don't get why that's fun. Why not just say, "I don't agree with your stance, their name doesn't bother me, and I do like their gear." That's cool. I'm pretty sure I'd like it too.
Because it’s the name of a company, it’s that simple. It was more a comment on the silliness of your position.

And it was a true statement, I own Schiit and I like my Schiit.

Edit: and so you giving your opinion about words being offensive is some how superior to my opinion that they are just words and I should just keep it to myself… gotcha I see how you roll.:thumbsup:
 
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I guess that's WHY I feel so strongly about it.. that in our society disliking vulgarity has become silly, and vulgarity is accepted and expected in public. If common decency and respect is silly, then I am proud to be among the most goofy people out there.
They are just words. People choose to be offended by them.
 
I can think of a LOT of words that get people fired, close down businesses, ruin lives, that are "just words." That's a cop out. We digress. Respond if you wish.. I've expressed my opinion and there's nothing further to be gained, I guess. Back to audio.
 
I can think of a LOT of words that get people fired, close down businesses, ruin lives, that are "just words." That's a cop out. We digress. Respond if you wish.. I've expressed my opinion and there's nothing further to be gained, I guess. Back to audio.
Yes we both given our opinions on it, that’s what conversation/discussion is all about. Still doesn’t change the fact that I like the gear that I have from the company that shall remain nameless ;)
 
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