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Irony of Cheap-Fi

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DavidTT made a great point several posts back. Remember David, he started this thread .:)

I have definitely been geopolitically naive in the past. Not so much anymore. Now I think it really does matter where our HiFi gear comes from, along with a lot of other things we buy.

That’s not to say that gear from China is inferior. There are lots of great products coming out of China. It just that now I’ll do more research and look for viable alternatives before I open my wallet.
 
I've been into amps of late, buying and trying multiple Class AB amplifiers, new and old. I have a Schiit Vidar on the way right now and can hardly wait until it arrives. However, it's obvious that Super-Cheap-Fi is growing fast. Cheap audio gear from China seems to be everywhere and high-quality Class D 'module' amps are increasingly penetrating the market.

Module amps are showing up in premium machines from major makers (at high prices too), but they are also available on the cheap from places like Ghent Audio, Ali Express, etc. I'm making no declarations about any of this except to wonder how these developments aren't going to gut the larger makers and boutique makers alike. I also feel like a product from a major manufacturer seems cheapened to me when they start incorporating modules in them. I was looking at power amps from NAD last night and they are moving hard into Class D, but I would frankly be pissed to pay a premium for something like a C298 only to find it hosting Purifi module boards inside.

Here's the rub for me. If a potential buyer takes the time to peak under the hood of any of these premium module amps, they'll see that inside the pretty, and expensive, Class D cases from the 'name' manufacturers, there is LOTS of open space and pre-manufactured modules wired together by someone needing zero skill to do so. These amps are often mostly empty space inside.

Newer manufacturers like Audiophonics, XTZ, VTV, SMSL and Topping (and many others) are selling module amps with boards from nCore, Hypex, Purify and Infineon that require essentially zero technical skill or knowledge to assemble, at prices ranging from Fairlawn premium to dirt cheap. One can also buy preconfigured modules from places like Parts Express, plus pre-drilled cases (from sellers like Ghent) and build amps that are functionally identical to name brand machines. I've watched plenty of videos on YT of hobbyists putting together module amps in less than an hour. How can any maker possibly keep prices on such amplifiers at any sort of premium going forward?

Further, I've read that more and more aped (or perhaps grey market) cheap module boards are being hawked by sellers on Ali Express and the bay. Once these become ubiquitous, which will soon happen even with the best Purifi boards, it's hard not to see the market for 'premium' amplifiers collapse. We're talking about amps with tons of clean, high-performance power, running efficiently and remaining cool, in little black boxes that will soon cost a hundred or two, as far as the audio-hobbyist eye can see.

I'll admit my current bias, which is that while I'm happy that great gear can be had on the cheap, I have zero interest in little black Purifi or Hypex or Infineon boxes, whether from China or anywhere else. When I was new in the hobby I would have cheered on such downward pressure on HiFi. I no longer greet the 'little black box' with the same enthusiasm.

Great sound available on the cheap? Great, but also boring as hell for those interested in audio as a hobby.

Yeah, it's a tricky one isn't it. I love my big heavy vintage A/B stuff, but like many of us I'm seeing the writing on the wall. I'd personally say that vintage stuff has already hit the poor value point, where the price to sound quality ratio just isn't there. Plus it's getting harder to find a competent tech that isn't buried in work for the next umpteen years. The only upside is that most pre-1980 stuff doesn't contain proprietary parts and chips and can usually be repaired by the hobbyist.

On one hand, being the DIY type, these new modular setups are an exciting proposition! On the other hand I can appreciate where you're coming from and what it represents for the industry.

I've recently fallen down the Chi-Fi headphone rabbit hole and ended up with some amazing sounding gear for a pretty reasonable outlay. I'm currently listening to Fiio FD3 IEM's (unreal build quality and sound) through a Qudelix 5k bluetooth DAC/Amp the size of a 9v battery (the Qudelix is Korean to be fair). I'm almost annoyed how good it sounds for $375 Canadian all in...
 
Largely my point, and Asia means China more often than not. When people reference "cheap Chinese ****", I think they forget that means just about everything produced on the planet.

Another thing that I truly think most overlook, is that the "cheap Chinese $hit" stereotype is because the market demands it. Manufacturing companies manufacture what they're paid to manufacture. In the case of China, multinational corporations pay Chinese manufacturers $hit money to produce cheap $hit because that's what the market demands. It's not like there aren't better quality options, it's that the majority of consumers want it as cheap as possible quality be damned, and manufacturers just want to make a happy buck and feed their families so they produce what they're paid to produce.

China is as advanced as any other developed nation and can produce goods that are every bit as high quality as any other, and I feel like that's what we're starting to see with some of this gear.

As far as China's politics, in the spirit of the forum rules, I'm not touching that one with a 3 Meter pole (I'm Canadian ;))
 
Another thing that I truly think most overlook, is that the "cheap Chinese $hit" stereotype is because the market demands it. Manufacturing companies manufacture what they're paid to manufacture. In the case of China, multinational corporations pay Chinese manufacturers $hit money to produce cheap $hit because that's what the market demands. It's not like there aren't better quality options, it's that the majority of consumers want it as cheap as possible quality be damned, and manufacturers just want to make a happy buck and feed their families so they produce what they're paid to produce.

China is as advanced as any other developed nation and can produce goods that are every bit as high quality as any other, and I feel like that's what we're starting to see with some of this gear.

As far as China's politics, in the spirit of the forum rules, I'm not touching that one with a 3 Meter pole (I'm Canadian ;))
And much of the inexpensive stuff is very good from a SQ standpoint. A lot of bang for the buck. More so than when I was coming up.
 
I was listening to my Chi-FI 69 Hood clone at the office today… that thing has no right to only cost around $250 new.
 
I have a few chi-fi things that I got just to see what they were all about. They were cheap and sound better than the price would indicate, but I look at them as toys. The way they're manufactured makes them all but impossible to repair and as such they are disposable things.

On the whole, I prefer things that are well built and can be fixed, but in our disposable world, that's becoming harder and harder.

I am hesitant to buy a lot of things new these days because once they go, it's not financially worth it to fix them. My refrigerator was acting up not too long ago, and I had a service guy come look at it, but because the thing that failed was attached to a bunch of other things, in order to fix it I would have had to replace the whole thing which was quoted at $1200, just for the part. For a $900 refrigerator that was 8 years old. I ended up buying a new one and I'm sure the old one ended up being trashed.

I would be very sceptical to buy a new piece of (expensive) audio gear that was designed and manufactured in a similar fashion, but then again I'm an old fart that's stuck in my ways.
 
but I look at them as toys. The way they're manufactured makes them all but impossible to repair and as such they are disposable things.
The class A amp I mentioned above is not any of this. It’s built like it would of been in 1969. A topless shot of one.
31188BCF-786D-41F0-A991-62B57EA231F6.jpeg
 
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Not sure I follow this thread - is a ding against Schiit? or was that just mentioned. I have the Aegir amp and in no way is that LoFi - and it wasn't cheap - I'm absolutely blown away by it.
 
The class A amp I mentioned above is not any of this. It’s built like it would of been in 1969. A top lees shot of one.
View attachment 2528578

That looks way better than what I have.

I know there's a lot of variation on what's out there for chi-fi, and I have seen others that are point to point and turret boards, but since the original question was about tiny modular boards, and what I have is put together with them, which is why I think of them as disposable toys (all be it very good sounding toys).

My guff is more that so much of what is out there is made disposable, and I'd rather spend my money on something that can be repaired.
 
That looks way better than what I have.

It's a clone of the 1969 John Linsley-Hood Wireless World Amplifier, on a nice PCB.

https://keith-snook.info/wireless-world-magazine/Wireless-World-1969/Simple Class A Amplifier - .pdf
https://jelabs.blogspot.com/2019/03/john-linsley-hood-1969-class-amplifier.html

The issue of repairability/disposability is one of modern electronics components and manufacture, and the cost of labour. I've bought cheap Chinese Class-D amplifier boards (Sanwu), that seem reasonably manufactured to my eye (an electronic design engineer). I have access to x64 stereo rework stations, hot air reflow, etc, but, given the things cost about £8, I'm not sure I can be bothered...
 
I hate smds as much as the rest of you. If you gaze at the not too distant future, I think through hole devices and discrete components that aren't smds will be as scarce as vacuum tubes today.
I don't like that but we've all seen a bunch of stuff discontinued already.
 
Lol, but almost everything is made in China at this point. Find me something mainstream on the market that isn't, regardless of where it was assembled or boxed.

For now...
upload_2022-4-2_14-37-32.jpeg

... made in Lakeville, Indiana. Acquired six years ago by Germany-based Continental AG, so for how much longer will Hoosiers be manufactured in USA? Who knows.
 
Oh BTW
Chief, that Hood amp looks very well made! If I had a need ( or want) I'd be in.
There are a few people on here that have them @Pio1980 … that is the reason I sought one out. I actually bought it from an AK’er. I was going to redo one channel with hand picked and measured components from one of our vendors stock to see if it would improve anything but I didn’t find anything out of spec with the factory pieces parts. I will eventually do that but it’s far from a priority. Still can’t believe the SQ for the price point.
 
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