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Is Amazon Ultra HD up-sampled?

spark1 said:
I don't think this is about whether or not 16/44 is "hi-fi".

The issue is whether or not Amazon upsampled your files so as to present them as UHD (24/192).

You've clarified that you handed off 16/44 and 24/48 masters to a third party, who then handed them (or perhaps just the 16/44?) to Tunecore, which in turn provided it/them to Amazon HD (and assumedly other services as well).

So, there are three possibilities:

  1. The manager upsampled the file(s)
  2. Tunecore upsampled the file(s)
  3. Amazon upsampled the file(s)

Hopefully someone with a Qobuz or Tidal account will take a look to see how they show up on those services, as that would be a good clue as to how this happened.
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Well I was just giving a personal anecdote about kicking myself for not knowing 24 bit delivery was an option on Tunecore now, and saying that I still feel good about 16-44.

As I said, I just sent 16-44, and the manager uploaded that. I highly doubt Tunecore did anything to the files-- these aggregators are really just there to take their middleman money, and I highly doubt they want to invest in the computing power. However, I will start a support ticket and see if I can get an answer. Also, the streaming companies (especially Apple) are pretty adamant about wanting to do any conversion themselves. My best guess is that one of the following is happening: 1) Amazon is not upsampling or adding 8 more bits, but is instead streaming the 16-44. It is the GUI of these devices (or amazons API for them) that is reporting it wrongly as 24-192. There may be fraud there in that case.... or 2) They are upsampling it and adding bits just so they can technically say it's 24-192. AWS does have plenty of server space and bandwidth, so it's really nothing compared to video.
 
evoltap said:
Well I was just giving a personal anecdote about kicking myself for not knowing 24 bit delivery was an option on Tunecore now, and saying that I still feel good about 16-44.

As I said, I just sent 16-44, and the manager uploaded that. I highly doubt Tunecore did anything to the files-- these aggregators are really just there to take their middleman money, and I highly doubt they want to invest in the computing power. However, I will start a support ticket and see if I can get an answer. Also, the streaming companies (especially Apple) are pretty adamant about wanting to do any conversion themselves. My best guess is that one of the following is happening: 1) Amazon is not upsampling or adding 8 more bits, but is instead streaming the 16-44. It is the GUI of these devices (or amazons API for them) that is reporting it wrongly as 24-192. There may be fraud there in that case.... or 2) They are upsampling it and adding bits just so they can technically say it's 24-192. AWS does have plenty of server space and bandwidth, so it's really nothing compared to video.
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I understand, and really appreciate you sharing your expertise.

As regards a potential API glitch; they certainly occur, but your album also has the UHD tag in its metadata/description, which I think would suggest it's not an API issue. And intentionally spoofing the API would be fairly obvious to those who don't use the API and have other means to view the bitrate.

I don't necessarily trust Amazon, but I would be surprised if they are upsampling 16/44 content to pass it off as HD/UHD. If this was found to be the case, it has the potential to cause a PR kerfuffle, and maybe even some FTC interest.

Looking forward to the results of your trouble ticket.
 
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Did I miss the Title of the album and band? I breezed through the thread due to so many numbers. I checked many of the posts however and didn't see it. Be a great opportunity to plug the album
 
Captain Beyond's amazing S/t record is available on Amazon but only in Standard quality. I wonder why they haven't upsampled it? It's a United Music Group release.
Screenshot_20230903-170656.png
 
Crazy Gnome said:
Captain Beyond's amazing S/t record is available on Amazon but only in Standard quality. I wonder why they haven't upsampled it? It's a United Music Group release.
View attachment 2975815
Click to expand...

What are you getting at? Do you have knowledge of Amazon upsampling CD-quality recordings to give the appearance of a larger "ultra high definition" library? If so, please share.

Crazy Gnome said:
Did I miss the Title of the album and band? I breezed through the thread due to so many numbers. I checked many of the posts however and didn't see it. Be a great opportunity to plug the album
Click to expand...

As a main contributor to the length of this thread, I apologize for your difficulty in finding the name of the album. Eight posts is a lot to go thru.
 
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spark1 said:
What are you getting at? Do you have knowledge of Amazon upsampling CD-quality recordings to give the appearance of a larger "ultra high definition" library? If so, please share.



As a main contributor to the length of this thread, I apologize for your difficulty in finding the name of the album. Eight posts is a lot to go thru.
Click to expand...

My point was that if Amazon was the culprit of up sampling Why would they choose to up sample a band that is -as far as I know- not as popular as Captain Beyond? Doesn't stand to reason. More likely it happened earlier in the chain.

Thanks for the apology. I was late to the thread and jumped around quickly and missed that part.
Though i did read about the limits of human hearing which is often brought up in threads like this. Might be why I didn't take it seriously enough to really dig deep.

My Conclusion extremely unlikely Amazon up sampled. Plenty of releases still available only in HD 16 bit by very popular artists. If it was a sales gimmick or company policy or whatever those releases would also be up sampled.
Do I have direct knowledge no. Just seems very unlikely.
 
Crazy Gnome said:
My point was that if Amazon was the culprit of up sampling Why would they choose to up sample a band that is -as far as I know- not as popular as Captain Beyond? Doesn't stand to reason. More likely it happened earlier in the chain.

Thanks for the apology. I was late to the thread and jumped around quickly and missed that part.
Though i did read about the limits of human hearing which is often brought up in threads like this. Might be why I didn't take it seriously enough to really dig deep.

My Conclusion extremely unlikely Amazon up sampled. Plenty of releases still available only in HD 16 bit by very popular artists. If it was a sales gimmick or company policy or whatever those releases would also be up sampled.
Do I have direct knowledge no. Just seems very unlikely.
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If you read the thread, you'll see that this point was raised earlier. I agree.
 
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Are you sure you are looking at "Greybird" the album? It shows as UHD for me.

Screenshot (3).png
 
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dcgibby said:
Greybird shows as HD in my Amazon account. Not upsampled. The only purchase option is MP3.
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Are you on Amazon Music Unlimited? If so, do you have it set to "HD/Ultra HD" or "Best Available?"
That might make a difference.

There is also a band called Greybird. Not related.
 
It's not a conspiracy if Amazon admits they upsample.

"Our player chooses the highest sample available from the external DAC and sound recordings are upsampled to that rate"

It's based on your system setting and what your network/DAC is capable of. When they say 24/192 They aren't saying you are getting that they are saying up to.
 
ra7c7er said:
It's not a conspiracy if Amazon admits they upsample.

"Our player chooses the highest sample available from the external DAC and sound recordings are upsampled to that rate"

It's based on your system setting and what your network/DAC is capable of. When they say 24/192 They aren't saying you are getting that they are saying up to.
Click to expand...
The file still has to be available in 24/192. If the dac can't play that then file will match the max the dac is capable of.
 
ra7c7er said:
It's not a conspiracy if Amazon admits they upsample.

"Our player chooses the highest sample available from the external DAC and sound recordings are upsampled to that rate"

It's based on your system setting and what your network/DAC is capable of. When they say 24/192 They aren't saying you are getting that they are saying up to.
Click to expand...


Two different things.

Identifying it as 24/192 (UHD) in the song/album description should mean that it has the corresponding high-frequency content. Upsampling it to the highest output your DAC is capable of is a different topic
 
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It should not be that difficult for Amazon to upsample the file on the way out the door after the initial handshake with "your" system.

100% spit ballin here.
 
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ra7c7er said:
It's not a conspiracy if Amazon admits they upsample.

"Our player chooses the highest sample available from the external DAC and sound recordings are upsampled to that rate"

It's based on your system setting and what your network/DAC is capable of. When they say 24/192 They aren't saying you are getting that they are saying up to.
Click to expand...
What is that quote from? What is "our player?"
Either it's coming down the pipeline from Amazon's servers at the bitrate it says it is or not. What our own personal gear does with it after that is not the point. My Amazon app (and Wiim app) both report it as 24/192. The question is is twofold. Are they saying that and it's not actually true, or did the files get up-sampled at some point?
 
ra7c7er said:
It's not a conspiracy if Amazon admits they upsample.

"Our player chooses the highest sample available from the external DAC and sound recordings are upsampled to that rate"

It's based on your system setting and what your network/DAC is capable of. When they say 24/192 They aren't saying you are getting that they are saying up to.
Click to expand...
GChief said:
It should not be that difficult for Amazon to upsample the file on the waybout the door after the initial handshake with "your" system.

100% spit ballin here.
Click to expand...
You would be able to see it. If you click on the Sd/HD/Ultra HD icon it shows you file type and what device can play.
Screenshot_20230904-125840.png
It appears to be accurate.
Screenshot_20230904-125531.png
No up sampling but not reading devices full capability 24/48 in second screenshot.
 
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