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Is Crosley a problem for Vinyl revival?

Yes, I have shopped for electronics lately. And no, poor choices of turntable and cartridge can damage a collection of records. In 1966, a good all in one was $200-$300 by itself. What makes you think a KLH, HH Scott, Zenith, Harman-Kardon, Sylvania, Packard Bell or similar all in one portable turntable can be made for that now? And with roughly equivalent sound. 6-8 gram tracking forces (Crosley's stiff, very uncompliant ceramic cartridge of today tracks at that weight) ruin records. Today's modern records are not compressed, filtered, or made Crosley or all in one friendly to track either. There were very few light tracking, lower output, complaint good quality ceramics made ever. None of those made anymore new either. So, there will be a phono preamp involved. I am no snob, but a budget good magnetic with a conical stylus tip of .7 mil and around 2-5-3 gram minimum tracking force is necessary to not chew records and be rugged enough for newbies.
 
wrbear and KentTeffeteller seem to have the two sides of the argument. The people who want to have the tactile experience because of the buzz. They may continue to use their Crosleys and love every minute. Or, they may destroy their records and quit the genre. Or they may need more and buy something better (I added a middle ground between the two sides - the folks who abandon LP's altogether). These categories are specific to the people who start with Crosleys.

It's tough to be objective in the AK world. It's populated by the believers....

But... LP sales suggest the "fad" is still growing.....
 
Go look at them!

Is it in fact demonstrable that Crosleys wreck records? Or is this just a matter of faith and dogma among certain record enthusiasts?

My family deserves better. Tom is making files off his collection and deserves better! He won't get to borrow my four new Beatles monos with that Crosley! Enough said, but have a Happy New Year!:D
 
LP is growing. But starter turntables should not ruin the records either. Crosleys ruin records. And are thusly unsuited to anything but beat up thrift finds. An Audio-Technica AT-PL 60 may be budget, but it doesn't ruin records. Neither does most Ions. Why can't Crosley do better?
 
i started on a cheap record player-it couldn't be classified as a turntable even though it technically had one. the cart was piezo lik all those with the flip stylus or the one with the screw mount.

i played nothing but 45s for a long time, threw away those annoying paper sleeves even though there were pics and such on them. now they are nearly useless as they were played wit a broken stylus, who knew?

i got a few LPs, first was johnny and the hurricanes, then duane eddy, the ventures, link wray. those weren't played with the broken stylus. still in poor shape.

of course as i got older and saw better players etc i graduated to electrophonic. still crap.

if one plays records only a few times on a crosley, they may not be degraded too much. hopefully those with them wise up quick, there may be some hope for the vinyl they are endangering.

i highly criticizer jack white for using crosley as a product. but then, they get started and it could be the entry drug.
 
Crosley CAN do better. That would raise their price point and put them up against higher end brands. Where does the entry level niche go? Crosley has targeted an entry level market and apparently is doing something right. Eventually, if their products hook enough of the population, they may invest in developing a quality product.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about saving the records! This is the circle of life. Some records will be sacrificed for the species to continue....
 
wrbear and KentTeffeteller seem to have the two sides of the argument. The people who want to have the tactile experience because of the buzz. They may continue to use their Crosleys and love every minute. Or, they may destroy their records and quit the genre. Or they may need more and buy something better (I added a middle ground between the two sides - the folks who abandon LP's altogether). These categories are specific to the people who start with Crosleys.

It's tough to be objective in the AK world. It's populated by the believers....

But... LP sales suggest the "fad" is still growing.....

One thing I noticed via my digs at GW. I find bunches of albums that are torn to hell, major scratches, but from the 50's and 60's. I do mean bunches because in some cases peeps place initials, names tags etc. on albums to mark them as theirs. These were prized possessions since then. Enough to pigeon hole them for so many years. Meaning.... peeps will tear albums up and still like them this is why a Crosley will survive...and last but not least economics and portable. Just something to think about we all perceive care differently. I think that's why there are sooooo many debates here.
 
One day im gonna get a new record and play it 100 times on a crosley to see if it will really ruin the record. I bet the crosley will break before the record.
 
One day im gonna get a new record and play it 100 times on a crosley to see if it will really ruin the record. I bet the crosley will break before the record.

But your not suppose to play a record twice in the same day, you know stylus tip temp.:smoke:
 
But your not suppose to play a record twice in the same day, you know stylus tip temp.:smoke:

That is some funny shat! I see that we are alllllll over the place on care and use of equipment via audio. I'm also into cars. Just imagine the conversation on "How to Wax a Car".
 
That is some funny shat! I see that we are alllllll over the place on care and use of equipment via audio. I'm also into cars. Just imagine the conversation on "How to Wax a Car".

Hold the phone! Wouldn't proper waxing of an LP reduce the friction between the needle and the LP? Crosleys wouldn't destroy records if properly waxed! Plus, all that dust and crud wouldn't lodge in the grooves! It would just glide right off the LP surface!
 
Hey don't laugh, one of these days I am going to armor all an lp. You know how nice and slippery that makes plastic, I wondered if it might help reduce friction and at the same time reduce any pops and ticks, hey you never know.

But I will have to try it out at a dealers demo, one that I don't like, just in case!:D
 
First, let me say you bring up very strong, compelling points. I'm glad to hear you have personal experience with the brand - that helps to add solid data to the original question raised. But I can't resist playing devil's advocate here - it's a great way to prove out (or disprove) theories.

First, I have to say that any company that isn't in it for the money, is going to stay in business by accident or by luck. The number one rule for every business is to make money. Like it or not - that's a fact. To look at Crosley's business model as negatively as possible, I'd describe their mission statement as "let's get these fools to buy a machine to play records on for cheap." I suspect Crosley executives put a more positive spin to their mission statement using words like "value" and "experience" and "vinyl experience."

It sounds as if you've traveled the path of audiophiles to quality machines - or perhaps leapfrogged those first steps involving low quality equipment. I took the hard road. My stepping stones include my parents' console and a BSR hunk of junk (produced in the millions for the masses). Ironically, I graduated to an ADC turntable that had BSR roots. In terms of tracking LP's it out performs the AR XA I am currently listening to John Mayer on. So, can a lousy quality piece of equipment act as a stepping stone to greater things? If more than half of the population can say "yes" then Crosley is good, because a lot of Crosley owners will be buying new (or new to them) equipment to truly enjoy the music - and that's what vinyl revival is all about.



I agree with most of what you say. I think Crosley is capable of better.

As for my turntable experience, in my 57 years I have used and/or owned all number of turntables (with the exception of "ultra high end" tables). My first foray into a "real" stereo system included an entry level Technics SL-B something or other....don't remember the exact model number, but it was a semi-auto belt drive that came with an Empire OP7 cartridge.

Among them: VPI, several Technics models (belt and direct drive --- I currently own two SL-1200s), AR (1980s iteration), Bang & Olufsen (specifically the Beogram 8000), Sony, Yamaha, Audio Technica, Systemdek, Denon.
 
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One thing I noticed via my digs at GW. I find bunches of albums that are torn to hell, major scratches, but from the 50's and 60's. I do mean bunches because in some cases peeps place initials, names tags etc. on albums to mark them as theirs. These were prized possessions since then. Enough to pigeon hole them for so many years. Meaning.... peeps will tear albums up and still like them this is why a Crosley will survive...and last but not least economics and portable. Just something to think about we all perceive care differently. I think that's why there are sooooo many debates here.


Very good point.

Also, then as in now, a lot of folks back in the day had/have no idea how to take care of records. My parents certainly never did. My Dad never fully got rid of his albums, but we didn't have a turntable through most of the 90s. Then, around 2002, he bought an AIWA stereo system that had a turntable on top, a Sony one that was very similar to the AT-LP60.

He began playing his records more, and I did sometimes, too. I'd played a few when I was very very young, but most of my formative years had been spent with cassettes and CDs. So this was kind of a novelty thing, really. Besides, I thought, records were dead. Long gone!

Then I noticed that they weren't really gone, not totally. I've recounted elsewhere that I got back into vinyl by buying a Joan Jett record on a whim and that leading to me having a small album set without a player. Then I bought a Crosley.

Now, slightly less than a decade later, I'm using great vintage gear and taking exceptional care of my albums. Did some of them get played on the Crosley? Sure. But most still sound great. I didn't have it long enough to do any serious damage and I know better now. So from my own perspective, Crosley's are helping revive the love of music more than they're hurting, because a lot of these old LPs being bought now would have just been thrown away if the market Crosley's helped revive hadn't given kids like me an inexpensive way in. I wouldn't have dropped even $150 on my first player, I was poor and in college and I wasn't sure how far the hobby would really grow on me.

And my Dad...when I talked to him about turntables I mentioned changing the stylus on my turntable and he said the following, "I never tried changing needles on any of my turntables."

NEVER! AHHHHH!

My parents didn't know a lot about the technology, they just wanted to use it to hear music. There are a HUGE number of folks from that generation like that. Those folks mostly migrated away from records. My mom says to me frequently, "I don't know why you like records, they were a huge pain. I like CDs better." But she was and is listening to music for different reasons and that's ok. I like the sound of vinyl, I like the album art, and I like the mechanics of it and the "magic" of plastic and diamond making beautiful music that others described earlier.

So, I think Crosley's not doing any harm really. Users not interested in how anything worked have been ruining records since records were being sold, it's just now it's been somewhat unified under a brand name. But some of these kids will change like I did as they learn more about it. They'll treasure and preserve records that right now are moldering in attics and would otherwise be thrown away (and a lot of folks are still just throwing records out).

Anyway, that's my own thoughts about it. YMMV.

Happy New Year, everybody!
 
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" My parents didn't know a lot about the technology, they just wanted to use it to hear music. There are a HUGE number of folks from that generation like that. Those folks mostly migrated away from records"

I don't think your parents were the norm, most everyone I knew changed out their needles as they were commonly sold, even in drug stores. Changing a stylus in a record player IMO doesn't qualify as technology knowledge, all it requires is simply snap a new one in. Those folks from "that" generation also would open the backs of their TV's and pull the tubes out and take them to the drug stores where they would run the tubes in the tube testers and replace what tubes were needed. If I recall most all the mainstream drug stores had a big tube tester for us to check our tubes, and they sold the tubes which they kept in the metal case under the tube testers.

I find it quite amazing how some people here keep referring to the older generation as a group of people that didn't know much other than perhaps how to plow a garden.
 
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My family deserves better. Tom is making files off his collection and deserves better! He won't get to borrow my four new Beatles monos with that Crosley! Enough said, but have a Happy New Year!:D
I never let friends borrow my records and I never took them to be played on other record players because I knew they weren't as good as mine. Actually I loaned out two records. One never came back and the other was left in a hot car and warped (first press ABB Fillmore East).

I'm not familiar with the Crosley enough to know if it chews records, but it can't be worse than some of the cheap players of yore.

I'm very surprised in my crate digging that I don't find more LPs that have been damaged by the record player/needle. I hear handling errors, scratches and such, but very little groove wear. Someone gave me a treasure trove of 60's records from a deceased friend and much to my dismay, several had been played to death.
 
I've decided I believe Crosley is the "gateway drug" for vinyl. To me, that's a good thing for a vinyl revival. I expect Crosley targets new listeners only, so anybody who joins the revival is a contributor to the growth.
 
I'm still sticking with my opinion (see post #2) that people who own Crosleys will go one of two directions.

That being said, unless someone comes along and says "Hey, come check out my system and listen to how good records really can sound", they may just assume that the sound coming out of their little Crosley is what that record is supposed to sound like.

For example: The other night I took a turntable out of one room that normally just runs into my computer and little Klipsch computer speakers and brought it out to the living room to hook it up to my main system. In the past, that turntable always sounded "fine" to me. It has an ADC QLM cart on it that came with the turntable. When I hooked it up and did an A B sound test (just comparing it with a Technics turntable with an AT95e on it) it sounded like crap. I swapped that ADC cart out for a Grado and it sounded 10 times better.

The point is this: some people are happy in their ignorant bliss. We can TRY to tell them that there are many many better options than the Crosley, but they may not care. They may be just fine with that "signature Crosley sound".

Just don't loan them any records...
 
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