Is Crosley a problem for Vinyl revival?

[jnoyes]

I disagree, vehemently. Books, hi-fi gear, clothing, shoes, housewares--there's damned little my wife and I don't buy from them. Prices are usually right and their return policy is liberal as well as easy to use.

Yep, Amazon Prime member here. I buy lots of things on Amazon.

Jon

 

[Son-of-Vere]

UTurn tech in an all in one won't happen without it being expensive. Like $1200-$1300 expensive.

Do people troll this site waiting for me to post so they can cut me down?

Have you done any shopping lately, Kent? I'll let you in on a secret, electronics are cheap. I've got a set of comp. speakers w/a sub for $30 and an Art DJ pre that cost $50. Add that to a low buck Uturn and I'm under $300. And that's with 3 separate products.

Will it cost more than a Crosley? Sure, but $1200 is way off base.

Speaking of bases, maybe that's what Uturn should do. A self powered base that sits under their table.

 

[MexicoMiike]

If the REAL vinyl market today is seen by suppliers/marketers as those with inexpensive players that just want to be "hip" by being seen with vinyl, then there is absolutely NO incentive on the part of vinyl record makers to ensure a top quality pressing. Why bother? The consumers EXPECT vinyl to have clicks/pops/ because that is part of the "mystique."

As I have posted elsewhere, my 21 year old niece listens to vinyl with her friends though on a cheap player. She thinks it's cool but an IPod with earbuds sounds better. It's not about the sound, it's about the retro-chic look. The fad will go away in a few years and either vinyl will REALLY disappear, like shellacs, or it will stay as a niche interest and, if so, the general quality should improve. Just remember that the general quality back in the day was average at best…

 

[jnoyes]

The nice thing about the young generations, at least many of us (we're not a monolith), is that we're a lot more willing and able to go around the traditional route to get knowledge, information, and our things. I've been in a couple audio stores, but mostly walked away unimpressed. The internet has a lot of resources (cough, cough) where I can find out more than most of the people in those stores. And it's less biased than someone trying to make money off of me. That being said, I've patronized those stores, too, but I use them as a service, not a reference source.

And I've gotten access to some pretty amazing things, mostly through the internet. I bought my Pioneer PL-1000 through someone I met on AudioKarma, and my Technics 1610 MKII was found through a friend on Youtube. With one notable exception, I've had great experiences getting equipment through Ebay, too.

There's a whole wide world of wonderful people out there. Unlike the old days, we're not as limited by geography as we used to be.

And while some folks turn down their noses at iPods and MP3s, they've given young folks access to a much wider array of music than was possible for the average person in any generation before. True, the quality isn't the greatest, but if you're listening to music in the car or on the subway, that's not going to matter as much anyway (though I do love the images I've seen of George Harrison's car, which had a 45 changer in the dashboard). I listen to mediocre music on the go and high-quality stuff on the deck back home. In that way, I can enjoy music in a wider array of places and my friends and I can expose each other to new sounds and artists with tremendous ease.

Last week, I was with a friend. I used my phone's loudspeakers to introduce her to Janelle Monae and St. Vincent. The speakers are small, but they're good enough to enjoy a couple of songs (it's an HTC One, by the way, and is has better speakers than almost any portable device I've ever had. Not audiophile quality, but not bad at all - end of plug). This week, she told me she's been listening to the album at home. Likewise, she introduced me to the Tune-Yards, another strange new sound I'd never have discovered on my own.

So we may not do things the way they used to be done, but I think we're managing all right. I'm not trying to start a fight between age groups, but it's annoying to always hear folks saying how us young kids can't possibly understand what music really is without someone telling us. We learn by a mix of listening to others and self-discovery, just like every other generation has. The methods of hearing new stuff has changed, but that's really the only difference. People being born this year, like my infant niece, will discover music that means something to them in the same way my generation has, but the methods will probably have changed even more. I might offer some recommendations or offer to let her listen to my set-up when she's to the age where she'll actually care, but she'll be the one that actually chooses what to listen to and how to listen to it. That's the way it should be.

So you take issue with those that characterize younger people in a certain way by suggesting the older people are set in their ways and stuck on tradition and can't learn anything new.

I have some news for you, we aren't monolithic either.

Jon

 

[rmoreau61]

There's a lot of conjecture here over where vinyl is going to go in the coming years. The only thing that is a certainty is that vinyl production will never reach the levels they were at when it was the only medium you could own to listen to what you wanted when you wanted. Now there are so many ways to listen to music.

Let's use some facts to try to map out a path. One fact is that there are loads of Crosleys in stores for sale. By loads, I mean you can buy them in most stores so they're very available. They're not making millions like BSR back in the day, but they're doing the same thing - they are the ubiquitous record player. There are a few other brands out there, but Crosley is probably available on a shelf in a store near your home. Their business model is that people are buying records and there's enough LP activity to crank out volumes of their machines and distribute them through all sorts of stores.

Another fact. A group of young guys (I point out age range here because there's been debate over age vs. listening habits and these guys dispel myths about youth not knowing what good sound is or caring) have a company building and selling turntables of their own design. Their business model is that there are people like them who want to listen to records and they want it to sound good. People are buying the tables and the company is growing. If you're old enough, think back. BSR's were being cranked out by the millions but small start ups believed there was a market for people who wanted to listen to higher quality sound. AR is the example I jump to as a comparison.

Another fact. The dangerously diminished vinyl industry is rebounding with increased volumes. Nothing even close to the levels (and I repeat myself) when LP's were the only game in town, but growth that justifies starting up and refurbishing equipment that's laid dormant for decades means people are buying discs.

Feel free to add more facts so that we have more puzzle pieces to see the picture.

To summarize, I see demand for beginners and casual listeners to invest in equipment either to try out the medium or just have fun listening to music the old fashioned way. Then there's demand for people who want more out of their music either because they've outgrown the beginner equipment or they're going straight to the listening experience. Vinyl production is up.

The picture I'm seeing is vinyl sales are up, Crosley players are the most readily available turntables for sale and there's a segment out there that want more out of their listening experience. In other words, Crosley is good for vinyl because they're supporting the regrowth of the industry.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Their is also quite a number of people posting here everyday questioning what tables to get for a starter table and for the most part they are not interested in Crosleys. So I wouldn't be surprised that a certain percentage of the new people do care about sound quality and will end up with a decent system through it all.

 

[stereofisher]

Ahhhh Crosley

My sister informed me she bought a Crosley for my brother in law to put their Lps on their computer. Why didn't you speak to me? You will wreck you records! :nono: Today I ordered them the Music Hall USB-1. With it he can make files the right way! She about gave me stroke!!!!:thumbsdn: righted a wrong!

Eric

 

[Tom Brennan]

My sister informed me she bought a Crosley for my brother in law to put their Lps on their computer. Why didn't you speak to me? You will wreck you records! :nono: Today I ordered them the Music Hall USB-1. With it he can make files the right way! She about gave me stroke!!!!:thumbsdn: righted a wrong!

Eric

Is it in fact demonstrable that Crosleys wreck records? Or is this just a matter of faith and dogma among certain record enthusiasts?

 

[Roivas]

So you take issue with those that characterize younger people in a certain way by suggesting the older people are set in their ways and stuck on tradition and can't learn anything new.

I have some news for you, we aren't monolithic either.

Jon

You conveniently skipped the part where I wrote:

The people who are enjoying themselves are doing it right, regardless of the quality of their table...Everyone's different. The point is, there's real energy and enthusiasm, and it should be supported instead of being looked down on or condescended to.

And no generation is a monolith. There's a lot of folks here who are older who are nothing but helpful, supportive, and fun, just like there's a bunch of young cynics who aren't happy with anything. Different strokes...

I was trying to say that there are certain commentators that treat all young folks as if we're the same, and we're not. I never intended to paint everyone of a certain age with the same brush. I was responding to some specific comments. There have been folks of all ages who've been great and tremendously supportive. That's how it should be, and that's all I was trying to say. We shouldn't look down at folks who enjoy music in a different way, we should encourage them to explore their passions more. That's it. I'm not trying to cause drama, I just want people to feel comfortable expressing their joy of music here without feeling condescended on, whether you're 95 or 15.

That's really all I have to say about this topic.

 

[Guest105]

You conveniently skipped the part where I wrote:



I was trying to say that there are certain commentators that treat all young folks as if we're the same, and we're not. I never intended to paint everyone of a certain age with the same brush. I was responding to some specific comments. There have been folks of all ages who've been great and tremendously supportive. That's how it should be, and that's all I was trying to say. We shouldn't look down at folks who enjoy music in a different way, we should encourage them to explore their passions more. That's it. I'm not trying to cause drama, I just want people to feel comfortable expressing their joy of music here without feeling condescended on, whether you're 95 or 15.

That's really all I have to say about this topic.

Well said...again.

 

[majick47]

Tom only one way to find out, get a Crosley and test your records.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Hey that might be someone's calling, to modify a real sleeper, the Crosley!

 

[Multiplex]

I have a buddy that bought a modern yamaha receiver and some cheapo athena speakers for about $75 and I gave him a Pio PL-510 to spin some vinyl. He was one really happy guy. I went back to his place a little while later and the Pioneer was sitting there and I went to use it. The head felt a little heavy and I noticed he had cranked the weight all the way down on it. His reasoning is that it improved bass and was less likely to skip. I suppose, but what a waste of a table, vinyl and stylus. I suppose some people should just stick to digital.

And then there's that... It takes a little more knowledge to set up a "real" turntable. There are a lot of noobs getting decent vintage TTs as hand me downs, and all too often they are in disrepair, or set up improperly. Things like screwy VTF, overhang, or a worn/damaged stylus can ruin the vinyl experience. (...and records!)

A cheap ceramic Crosley might not be the best thing for records, but it can't be worse than a nice vintage deck tracking at better than 3 grams with a misaligned cartridge sporting a bent cantilever and a worn out stylus tip. ...And you have to know that tons of those things are out there. So, I'm sure that bad setups will ruin the vinyl resurgence faster than anything. If you have a $50 Crosley, you know that better exists. If you have a vintage TT that sells for $500 on eBay and it still sounds like crap, you might be inclined to think that records just suck.

Also, Crosley makes at least a couple models I have seen with MM cartridges. They are simple to setup, (all the work was done at the factory) and are practically bonehead-proof. They won't damage records unless tips are worn or damaged, just like any other turntable.

 

[Dennis Gardner]

People damage way more records than tables do.......and always will.

Think about all the pictures from the past of records just thrown about the room, regardless of the table they used. I also agree that there were always more poor quality tables made than high quality models since the beginning of the format.

 

[Karla_L]

Yes, but it is a fad. The vinyl revival will not last, just as the Polaroid revival will not last.

I got into vinyl about 8 years ago now, and at that time vinyl was slowing making its resurgence to what it is now. I also heard then (and ever since) that it's just a "fad" but 8 years later I certainly beg to differ on that point. I actually never thought it would be as big as it is now.

 

[jnoyes]

You conveniently skipped the part where I wrote:



I was trying to say that there are certain commentators that treat all young folks as if we're the same, and we're not. I never intended to paint everyone of a certain age with the same brush. I was responding to some specific comments. There have been folks of all ages who've been great and tremendously supportive. That's how it should be, and that's all I was trying to say. We shouldn't look down at folks who enjoy music in a different way, we should encourage them to explore their passions more. That's it. I'm not trying to cause drama, I just want people to feel comfortable expressing their joy of music here without feeling condescended on, whether you're 95 or 15.

That's really all I have to say about this topic.

No, I didn't conveniently leave out anything. Your first paragraph says younger people are better at something, meaning older people are not as good at it. If younger people are better, then who were you comparing them to? I don't see any other way to interpret it.

I agree with the rest of what your saying. I agree that no category of people are all the same.

Jon

 

[rmoreau61]

I got into vinyl about 8 years ago now, and at that time vinyl was slowing making its resurgence to what it is now. I also heard then (and ever since) that it's just a "fad" but 8 years later I certainly beg to differ on that point. I actually never thought it would be as big as it is now.

If tape, CD, MP3, online playlist services and any other format I've missed (vocal cords?) haven't caused the complete extinction of vinyl, then maybe it really is more than a fad and will command a (small) percentage of the market for the foreseeable future.

 

[jnoyes]

Well said...again.

Apparently you don't get it either.

His first paragraph shows a bias against older people. When you say younger are more willing and able to do something, the implication is clear that they are better than older people at doing that thing. If you think that's OK to say, then you're biased as well.

Jon

 

[ggg71]

It still subjects the user to the magic of music coming out of an old fashioned phonograph and for some, that's all it should take, they don't know it could sound even better. Its magical, that's all I can say.

This. This in spades.

Watching the record go round and round and knowing that the music is coming off that piece of vinyl via a tiny needle is just beyond cool. Plus it's a more involving experience - "spinning vinyl", and of course the warm non-fatiguing sound...

My wife, who does not have an audiophile bone in her body, loves listening to records. There's just something about it.

Garth

 

[mg196]

Well said...again.

Ditto there. Roivas is right on the money as far as I'm concerned. But from now on, I am OUT!