Is Crosley a problem for Vinyl revival?

[cubdog]

As long as people continue to appreciate music I could care less how they listen to it.

As usual, here in AK land, we all know what's best when it comes to music playback. The problem is we seldom take into account what is really important, that being, the enjoyment derived from listening to music. How that's achieved is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

cubdog

 

[ra7c7er]

This is simply not true. I started on a Crosley. While it might not be cool, I'm not ashamed of it. I needed something cheap to see if this was something I was really interested in or if it was just a passing fancy. It's like buying someone a point-and-shoot to see if they're interested in photography. No, it's not an SLR, but it's a toe in the water and they can get into more serious (and more expensive) stuff if the interest persists.



The great thing about the vinyl boom is that you can do this now, too. They've got records in Barnes & Noble (my grandma bought me a record from there for Christmas because she knows how much I love records. I didn't have the heart to tell her I've already got the White Album. it's the thought that counts). They sell them at Urban Outfitters, at Half Price Books, and even at some Targets.

They might not be the standard, but they can be what stores call "selective sales," (at least that's what BP called it when I worked at one of their gas stations). Where I worked, they were things like promotion-only candy bars and gum. It's basically something a person didn't walk into your store meaning to buy, but once they see it they decide to anyway.

So, vinyl music's role has changed, but many people buy it for the same reasons, I suspect. Is vinyl as big now as it was in the 80s? Nope. But it's growing and people are interested in it again. It may not be the dominant medium, but it's getting people interested in their music and in the related ephemera (artwork, mechanics, etc). I'm glad, because for a long time when I didn't have a turntable or records, I wanted one. I had fond memories of them. Now, they're back and I can share that affection with others, including my 9-month old niece when she's old enough (though I bought her a Fisher-Price turntable music box for Christmas this year and she giggled and laughed at it for most of the day). The more things change, the more they stay the same. The only thing that's really new in the vinyl resurgence is that now people have a choice in mediums and they're choosing vinyl anyway. That's pretty cool.

Barnes and Noble has had records in it's stores for a LONG time. So has Books-A-Million and even Borders did to and they closed before the vinyl resurgence. Just saying. It's places like Target and Whole Foods (do they still sell records?) and walmart and Best Buy and other big box stores that only started since the 2009 or so.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

UTurn tech in an all in one won't happen without it being expensive. Like $1200-$1300 expensive.

 

[wrbear]

The way I see it, yes there were really bad players that ruined many a record in the 50s,60s & 70s then it really slowed down. Now we have a resurgence of the media and a cycle that will repeat itself. We will have various levels of quality. The bad news is where vintage records are used with the low budget units, which will happen. The quantity of good quality vintage records will be reduced once again. This will more than likely reduce the stock of good quality vintage records a bit. Re-issues will go the cycle of the earlier years in much the same way. The good news is the internet. It’s educating everyone and will more than likely reduce the impact on supplies and the quality of same. Just my thinkin here....

 

[DougMac]

True. That is funny. I find it a little arrogant that people assume current gen dont know what good sound is. As if everyone in 1977 only listened to hifi.

As one of the resident old farts, allow me to respond.

I know that I and I don' think any others are saying you don't know what good sound is. However, if your goal is good sound, there are much easier and cheaper ways to obtain good sound than to use records and record players.

I can't believe anyone interested in good sound will be using a Crosley or a cheap portable player, because neither provide what any reasonable person would call good sound.

Whoever pointed out that most folks in the '60's or '70's were using cheap players is correct. Whether good or bad, I grew up in a household with a decent component system and turntable. My Christmas present when I was 12 was an Elac Miracord 40H. My records have always been played on a good turntable, that's one reason my 50 year old first pressing Beatles albums are NM.

Any self respecting person who wants to listen to records for the sound quality, whether they are 25 or 65, will not be using cheap turntables.

 

[rmoreau61]

My first LP was played on my family's console which had a ceramic cartridge that probably tracked at 4 or 5 grams (or more!). A few years later I had my first job and I got a used Sansui receiver and a BSR turntable at Tech Hifi - quite an upgrade, but still likely to cause people here to cringe at the thought. From there it was a Micro Seiki with a Pioneer receiver - finally, my records were getting treated with some respect. I don't see starting out with a Crosley as being any different from me starting out with my family's console over 45 years ago. As has been mentioned, the difference for me is LP's were the highest tech/only form of music to buy back then. Now it's kind of a boutique format with lots of different ways to get your music. What isn't different is, if you love the music and the experience, you'll want to evolve to higher levels. If you casually enjoy it, you'll be satisfied as is. If it's a passing fad, there's not too much of a loss. Despite the early years of torture to my first LP's, they still play great. In fact, I just handed "Yellow Submarine" down to my daughter as a Christmas gift - that was my first record.

 

[neocaster]

My n00b thoughts:

If it's going to support more vinyl production, I'm for it.

If it's going to telegraph to record companies that poor quality in the recording is acceptable, I'm a good deal less for it.

Consumers drive the new market by participating. For equipment, I think the secondary market is where people will lean. Here's what I see happening:

Crosley tables sell well at Urban Outfitters and Target.
A small percentage of these sales turn into devotees of quality vinyl on quality equipment.
Some buy new equipment, but that won't drive prices up in that market too badly because manufacturers will just make more instead.
Some buy on the secondary market because it's where the best value lives. More quality. usually fewer dollars. This WILL drive up secondary market prices because nobody's making more vintage equipment.

Net result: More choices in the new market. More cost in the secondary market. More people coming here to get good n' primered on what to look for.

 

[mfrench]

My starting point into hifi; not mine, but enjoyed at a friends.

This led to constant violations of the freshly vacuumed shag carpet being messed up in front of the family console stereo, by me, as i learned to love music. The console was in the living room, and, that wouldn't fly. So eventually, my folks bought their sanity back by buying me my first stereo, for my bedroom.
I still have the records played on that folding monster, and they play just fine.

 

[rmoreau61]

The sentimentalist in me makes me want to go out and find a BSR 2510X! Maybe I can settle for a framed picture of one....

 

[mgosdin]

The path I took in the 1970's : Montgomery Ward all in one BSR > Montgomery Ward Quad all in one with a better BSR > Education & Enlightenment with a friend's Realistic/ELAC > Realistic LAB-200 with RS/Shure Cart > Yamaha P-450 with AT12Sa Cart.

A path for 2015 : MP3's > Crosley > Education & Enlightenment with the Internet and a bunch of dancing bananas at AudioKarma > Vintage or New Gear.

Maybe enough new users will come along and TEAC/Onkyo/Pioneer/etc will get really serious about making quality turntables again. The folks in the far east can do it, all you have to do is ask them to.

Mark Gosdin

 

[mg196]

It is a new phenomenon...

Back in the 80's you could go to lots of stores and buy albums because they were the standard format for music at the time.

I don't see what one thing has to do with the other. Cheap turntables have been around for as long as there have been turntables, and kids have played their records to death on them for just as long. What is new about that?

 

[Tom Brennan]

My starting point into hifi; not mine, but enjoyed at a friends.

This led to constant violations of the freshly vacuumed shag carpet being messed up in front of the family console stereo, by me, as i learned to love music. The console was in the living room, and, that wouldn't fly. So eventually, my folks bought their sanity back by buying me my first stereo, for my bedroom.
I still have the records played on that folding monster, and they play just fine.

I had one of these, a GE Trimline, a very nice Christmas present from the early 1960s. It played records nicely and if it damaged records it wasn't apparent when records played on this were subsequently played on proper hi-fi equipment. I think the notion that cheap players necessarily ruin records is a canard.

 

[04blackmaxx]

I started with this, im sure the Crosley is 100x better. Maybe ill pick one up for $30 now come to think of it.

 

[jnoyes]

My first was a 1959 Steelman suitcase portable.

Can't find a pic anywhere

Jon

 

[sqlsavior]

Probably not.

Video killed the radio star.

 

[Multiplex]

I think that the Crosley players are a good thing... They offer a reasonable price point to get started in vinyl. Same with the AT LP-60. If a noob had to buy a new VPI or clearaudio TT to get started, they wouldn't. Ever.

Plus, Crosley players sound no worse than the horrible ipod docks, Bluetooth speakers, and plastic soundbars that they have become accustomed to. With most of these, you couldn't tell if an MP3 is lossy or not. Look at the internal speakers in LCD TVs... Most people can use those and be happy as a clam. To me, TVs sound worse than ever... An $80 13" CRT TV from 10 years ago had better sound than most $800 50" TVs of today.

By way of comparison, a Crosley isn't at all bad, especially the bigger, better ones that have magnetic AT cartridges built-in.

 

[QRanc]

Most of the kids getting into vinyl and crosleys aren't buying old records either. They are buying new records. The only used records they go for is the typical popular late 70s and 80's rock that nearly every serious listener/collector already has. You go to nearly any "Hipster's" house and look at their collection. It's all modern music with a couple paid to much for used g condition Kiss albums and a couple cheap reissue 80s rock maybe a little punk music. Other than that it's just RSD stuff. None of those kids are "really" getting into the hobby. They aren't hitting up thrifts they aren't scouring flea markets every weekend, a few might go to local record fairs but even they they do they are just looking for the typical popular stuff and are willing to over pay for it. That's pretty much the only way they are hurting the hobby.

I don't go to flea markets. I don't dig in the used bins. I primarily listen to modern music. I participate in RSD.

How can you tell me I'm not "really" getting into the hobby? Record collecting is not as one dimensional a hobby as you seem to think it is. A collection of new records is still a collection, is it not? I shouldn't have to qualify my listening preferences to you, or anyone else. I enjoy it, and that's all that matters.

Everyone under the age of 35, who listens to records is not a "hipster", either.

I think some people on here need a bit of a reality check. In this digital era, there is an undeniable charm and novelty to the LP. How dare you look down your noses at people who want to try it for themselves. My first record player was a Fisher Price, when I was a kid. Not exactly audiophile. I still enjoyed the music that came out of it. But, it was a foot in the door, much like the Crosleys out there today.

Let's not forget, these are the same people you scoff at for listening to compressed MP3's through a little Bluetooth speakers. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[4Play]

Back in the 50s and 60s, the console was the most popular unit in the home. Whether it be radio or vinyl, this and the TV was two important fixtures in the home.

In the 70s, the small all-in-one was the cream of the crop. That is until you went to the audio store for the first time, and then you realize there is a whole different world out there. This is where you learned about high fidelity, total harmonic distortion, signal to noise ratio, etc. You learned that separates is better than a receiver. It is here that are eyes were finally opened to the world of audio.

Today, for some of us, the only store we have is a Best Buy. Even at BB you are limited to the brands they only carry. Most of the components they carry, I would not classify as audio quality. The other place we have is the internet. When it comes to shopping audio for some of us, it is very limited.

I know the bigger cities... Columbus Ohio, Lexington Kentucky, Richmond Virginia, Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, and others have audio stores, and in some cases more than one. This is the missing link, the audio store. The audio store I went to and bought my equipment went out of business back in the 80s. We need to bring the audio store back so the younger generation will see and hear what the older generation has been preaching to them.

Until then, the younger generation will be enwrapped with their I-Pods and smart phones, and they will believe their units provide the best music. Bring back the audio stores and watch the younger generation get wide eyed, mouth wide open with drool coming like a waterfall. The audio store will be the deal breaker to make the younger generation realize that the old farts knew what they were talking about.

 

[majick47]

If the Crosleys, ION and the like have anything to do with it the vinyl revival fad will be short lived among the general population due to the horrible sound quality produced by these toy turntables. In the interim I'll be focusing on purchasing CDs in order to avoid the records trashed by the Crosleys.

 

[stevantr]

Everyone under the age of 35, who listens to records is not a "hipster", either.

Yes, but it is a fad. The vinyl revival will not last, just as the Polaroid revival will not last. Yes, look it up Polaroid 600 film is being made by some outside company because the cameras are so popular.

I'm not much out of the age of the typical hipster, hell my brother lives in Willamsburg, so I think I have a bit of an understanding on this. Many of my friends have gotten rid of their CD collection and only listen to vinyl. I do not know of a single one of this group that has gotten anything better than an Ion table, except for the people I gave decent tables to.

They may state it is about sound quality because that is what they read, but its not. It is about what is cool, and cool things come and go. Vinyl will once again disappear to be replaced by the next cool thing (anyone want a LD or betamax?) and vinyl production will dwindle down and we'll be back to 1992.

Will some move up to better tables? Absolutely, but the hi-fi crowd is a small crowd and it will stay that way, especially as the audiophile lifestyle becomes more of a high income luxury than an enjoyment of good music.