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Is great soundstaging at low volume possible?

Is great soundstaging at low volume possible?

  • Sure, if you have $5k+ to blow on it

    Votes: 5 16.7%

  • Can't be done for science reasons

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • Can be done with $500 in craigslist gear

    Votes: 11 36.7%

  • I've got just the thing....

    Votes: 10 33.3%

  • Be that guy at the office with unprofessionally large headphones

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • Total voters
    30
SchweinHaus

SchweinHaus

Well-Known Member
Hey gang,

The title basically says it all, but I'm thinking about trying to put together an office system, which means very low volume, but I'm hoping I can get something that sounds really killer and gets great soundstaging. In my experience, most of my systems sound fine but boring until you get them at a moderate volume, say, the upper acceptable level for an apartment building. That clearly, however, would be inappropriate for an office.
I'm typically a vintage guy. Maybe it's just aesthetics or faux-nostalgia, since the gear is older than I am, or fetishization, but I would prefer to have vintage to show off at the office. But I also want something that I'm going to enjoy the hell out of listening to 40+ hours a week, with sparkling 3-D imaging.
Any thoughts or gear you've found to work this way?
 
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I read the choices and voted before I read your post about wanting it for an office system. Quad ESLs are rather large for an office system. But they are dynamic and involving right down to hold-your-breath-to-hear levels. You could put one on either side of your chair, and call them 'unprofessionally large headphones', I suppose.

:music:
 
My headphone/nearfield system does it.
Probably would'nt be the most practical choice for an office system,but it is fairly compact and it images incredibly well @ low volumes.
index.php

More pics here >>>> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?media/albums/headphone-nearfield-2-1-system.400/

Gear rundown:
NAD 106 preamp (w/RH-75 rack handles (w/black inserts) in carpeted 2ru enclosure).
Canton GL-260 speakers. (painted OD green to match the OD green Corsair C70 computer case).
DOD 830 Series II EQ.
Middle Atlantic PD-915R power distribution unit.
EV 7100 power amp (being fed via the NAD 106's XLR outs via Mogami silver XLR cables).
Parasound D/AC-1000 (feeding the NAD 106 via a Hosa Cable IIRC).
PC has a Sound Blaster Zx sound card to feed the Parasound DAC via it's optical output (optical cable is an Emotiva item).

To the left is the Canton AS85-SC subwoofer for this system & AKG K240DF headphones (cable for the Canton sub is also a Mogami item).
To the right is the desktop PC I built (rundown in another pic in this album) & Sony MDR-7506 headphones.

Now one could easily lose the DOD EQ as I simply dont use it,turned out it just was'nt needed,so it's never even been put into the signal chain.
Same with the Middle Atlantic PDU,that was just the most practical power solution for use with this rig.

So it could easily be "shrunk down" somewhat with no real degradation to the SQ.
IMO the important pieces are the ones in bold print above ^^^^.

FWIW ~ HTH

Bret P.
 
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Variable loudness controls are ok in my book,but I dont care for the "all-or-nothing" loudness (button/switch) option at all.
I have 3 preamps (and one integrated amp) that have variable loudness controls,and they can indeed be handy for low volume listening.
To me the all-or-nothing approach is just too hamfisted,and often enough when if you hit that you have to re-adjust the bass & treble as well.

The thing I love about my rig above is it does'nt need loudness to sound good @ low listening levels.
Heck I dont use the tone controls on the NAD preamp either,and I only slightly EQ the signal coming from the PC.

I attribute that to two things primarily:
Using the XLR cables between the preamp & the amp,this rig is so incredibly quiet it's amazing,it's like a bottomless pit of blackness.
The other is the EV 7100 amp,it's quite a piece,built like a tank and heavy as he!! for a 1ru amp,and it's a true dual mono amp to boot.
And at the 100wpc it puts out to those 4Ω Canton GL-260's,there's simply no lack of headroom at ANY volume.

But no doubt there are tons of ways to get the job done,my rig is just one approach,and offered up as some "food for thought / fodder for discussion".

Bret P.
 
qdrone said:
Buy a pre or reciever with a LOUDNESS switch. When engaged it boosts the bass at low volumes to get the fullness your looking for.
Click to expand...

The OP didn't ask about "fullness" but "soundstaging", absolutely not the same thing.

As for speakers that throw a nice soundstage at "any" volume? And the great thing is, they're "small" so work great in an office.

infinity-modulus-02.jpg
 
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century tek said:
Isn't sound staging and separation the same thing? Great separation can happen at any volume.
Click to expand...

Not the same thing.

Think imaging with depth and height, where not only are the individual instruments discernable from each other, but their place on stage in relation to the other's, whether farther back, up front, elevated, etc etc.

Try this album to hear what soundstage is.

61EbH4LPwBL._SY355_.jpg
 
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Right, but volume shouldn't matter. You can still only get so much from stereo. There are other schemes to get good or different soundstaging. Can't remember the brand off hand (Bose?), but I had read somewhere that someone tried different phasing to achieve said results. :dunno:
 
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Many speakers sound different when playing at higher volume levels. There are threads on AK about some speakers coming to life at specific (mostly loud) levels. IMO one should listen for speakers that don't change their tonality with different volume levels. Quad ESL's are a prime example.

century tek said:
Isn't sound staging and separation the same thing? Great separation can happen at any volume.
Click to expand...

No, they are not the same thing. Separation is mostly a Guitar on the left, bass on the right with drums in the middle effect. A soundstage is the aural illusion of musicians performing in a real space over there where your speakers used to be. You can have separation with no soundstage. OTOH if you have a soundstage you automatically have separation.

Most pop/rock recordings being the result of multitracking and overdubbing have no soundstage to reproduce. If you want to hear a soundstage classical, opera, some jazz and many audiophile aimed recordings are what you have to listen to.
 
I have good sound staging on my system however I do no touch classical. Just me!

I have been in live recording envirnment and a recording studio to see how it's done but of course there are multiple microphones to give just the right mix.........depending on who's doing the mixing.
 
century tek said:
Right, but volume shouldn't matter. You can still only get so much from stereo. There are other schemes to get good or different soundstaging. Can't remember the brand off hand (Bose?), but I had read somewhere that someone tried different phasing to achieve said results. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Bose is not about soundstaging, they use direct reflected sound for that "fullness" mentioned earlier. But that approach IMHO virtually ensures a poor soundstage.

The bold in the above tells me you've never had the opportunity to hear real soundstaging. With a properly setup pair of great imaging speakers the soundstage will become absolutely holographic, to the point where stereo tv watching will have helicopters flying overhead, bullets whizzing by, etc, and all from just "two" speakers.

As for the "phasing" I believe you're referring to, that would be the Polk SDA's. And yes, if you want to hear a real soundstage these will give it in spades.
 
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