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Is OLD vinyl better sounding than NEW vinyl?

Herr Eickhorn, thanks for the post and for being honest about your findings. I've been on the fence about the worth of the hot stamper for years but never the validity. You'd have to be a rube to think every copy of the millions of copies of The Cars or any album pressed all sound the same for so many reasons. I don't belive all of Tom's claims but he has an excellent strategy and a solid no risk guarantee.

My only plea to you now is to go the extra mile and search for a clean early pressing with Sterling stampers and do a comparison to your hot stamper. These are farly easy to find. The value of the hot stamper is valid but a lot of us goons just like to do the hunting ourselves. Some of us spend way too much time and cost buying multiple copies of our desire that we might be better off buying from Tom as well! I am almost embarrased to admit I have 3-5 copies of too many of my favourite albums..
 
I have been very happy with all the new vinyl that i have purchased lately.
It does not seem to hold as much static as the stuff I have form the old days.
I bought a half speed master of Mark Knopfler and Emmy Lou Harris. All The Road Running and all I can say is WOW. It sounds amazing.:music:
 
Agreed, Delta Steve, vinyl purity has gotten better than the dog days of the energy crisis but the real issue with hot stampers is more of a sonics/fidelity issue, not just surface noise. Ideally though, we should look for both..
 
If anyone cares, mine is the R.T.B. (Audio-Visual) Productions LTD copy, mastered at Sterling Sound by George Marino. 1978 pressing with lyrics & pics on the inner sleeve. Looking at Discogs, there were 3 or 4 U.S. pressings alone that year, so no way of knowing if this is "the" hot stamper, LOL. ;)
 
I have no trouble finding great vinyl at the thrifts. But I would now know this if I didn't have a record cleaning machine. I find so much great vinyl that I find it difficult to justify a new pressing or a hot stamper. However, whatever the quality of the pressing, I am most interested in the performance.
 
beatcomber said:
Dude, that's just nuts. :)
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I know! $125 for a LP IS nuts.

Seriously, this is how I look at it. To buy a nice turntable, cartridge, phono stage, etc. you are talking hundreds if not THOUSANDS of dollars.

Before I embark on this path, I want to make an informed decision. So $125 bucks is a cheap price to pay to gain some insight into the LP source. I am a firm believe in "garbage in garbage out." In other words, quality sound starts with a quality source. If I got to spend hundreds of dollars for each quality LP source I won't be getting into vinyl.

The Cars hot stamper is marked Sterling. A couple of posters suggested I find another old Sterling Cars copy to compare. This is a valid suggestion and another comparison would either solidify or weaken the hot stamper concept. I'm going to do that!

Side one dead wax markings - Stamped: STERLING Etched: 6E-135-A1-RE-PRCW1
Side two dead wax markings - Stamped: STERLING Etched: 6E-135-B-4-PRCW RTB
 
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The stamper is not necessarily sufficient. You really have to listen to the record to see how it sounds. The stamper has to be fresh, and the press has to be properly heated and loaded with good vinyl to get the very best results.

That's why there's no substitute for listening to many copies, which is what you're paying Better Records for. The do-it-yourself guys are just spending the equivalent amount in time.
 
I really loathe the term used in this context since all vinyl records are pressed in heated stampers, it's misleading utter nonsense. This is so very well known that early pressings from fresh stampers would sound 'fresher' than those done on work-worn stampers and that regenerated masters sounded inferior to first generation. Some mastering labs were much better and more conscientious than others and that some cutting engineers are much better than others at getting a full dynamic lively cut than others. The first release discs almost always sounded superior to those taken from worn stampers or 2nd hand masters. Worst were using CD intended masters that had the wrong EQ for LP playback when the original release was known to be decent sounding. It just goes on and on.
Rule #1; FIRST, someone has to give a $#!T.
 
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Eikhorn, I like your attitude. Thanks for sharing this.

BTW, I have two copies of "The Cars" and they both sound good to me, except for a bit of surface noise. It's a fun and great sounding recording.
 
Wally Swift said:
I think $125 for a so-called "Hot Stamper" is a bit off but I have no problem paying $125 for a really rare title that I want. I've paid $500 a few times for records with no regrets.
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I agree totally! Asking $125+ for a rare 50's Bluenote or 60's UK Beatles Mono in nice shape is one thing. The Hot Stamper records generally offered for sale are fairly common titles and not rare. For the most part, they can be found for $10 or less in the used bins.

At those prices, it allows the Hot Stamper seller to stock pile numerous copies and do a "shoot out" to determine the best sounding LP in the batch. Not something most of us are willing to do. So I guess his time and sound evaluation is worth something.....just not that type of $ IMO.

I'd rather spend that amount of money on truly rare 1st pressings of LPs that don't surface that often......especially in excellent condition. I mean really....how much "better" can an original 1st pressing Beatles UK Mono sound? Not likely you'll ever find one listed on the Hot Stamper site! Most of those are 70's-80's pressings, which are alot more common and easier to obtain in decent condition.
 
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I've been buying vinyl for a long time, and have both original pressings and high-end reissues in my collection. Some old vinyl sounds great, others not so good. I do know that great sound does not always correspond to an original or early pressing. For example, I've found green label 1970s ABC reissues of Impulse jazz often sound as good as original orange and black labels, but the vinyl is quieter (not always, but often). Dark blue label Blue Note reissues from the 1970s can sound as good as originals, and in fact often used the original Van Gelder stampers. Columbia reissues from the late 1970s can sound great, although it's hard to beat some 6-eyes I have.

I will say the hands down best sounding albums in my collection are new reissues. I have all the Music Matters 45 rpm Blue Note reissues, and very little 33 1/3 can touch them. The new Shelby Lynne reissue by QRP actually comes close to the 45s, but not much else does. Then again, the Shelby Lynne was apparently recorded on a Studer tape machine.

The new Neil Young reissues sound pretty great to me, though the originals are very good too. I like having both. The recent Japanese reissue of Aja is outstanding IMO, and easily beats my original. I have a 1970s-era reissue of America's greatest hits (History), and it is way better than the original I have, and in fact is one of my reference discs. On the other hand, I have a 1970s German copy of Jackson Browne's "For Everyman" that has audible wow on some cuts, and really rolled off highs -- sounds like it was made from a copy, and a damaged one at that. One of my best sounding Beatles albums is a purple label 1980s reissue. My red label Capitol "White Album" sounds horrible -- harsh, distorted, no bass.

It goes on and on. Aside from those Music Matters reissues, which are uniformly excellent, it's hard to generalize.
 
grooveman said:
I agree totally! Asking $125+ for a rare 50's Bluenote or 60's UK Beatles Mono in nice shape is one thing. The Hot Stamper records generally offered for sale are fairly common titles and not rare. For the most part, they can be found for $10 or less in the used bins.

At those prices, it allows the Hot Stamper seller to stock pile numerous copies and do a "shoot out" to determine the best sounding LP in the batch. Not something most of us are willing to do. So I guess his time and sound evaluation is worth something.....just not that type of $ IMO.
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Your two paragraphs/statements are at odds with each other. The point of buying a UK Beatles pressing is for the sound quality, i.e. to get the best sounding copy available. This is exactly what a "Hot Stamper" is, as you go on to explain. There may be hundreds or thousands of run-of-the-mill albums for $10 but only a handful of "Hot Stampers". If you're looking for the absolute best pressing and are willing to shell out that kind of cash, why not? In this context I don't see why one category is acceptable but another isn't.

Full disclosure: I'm not endorsing "Hot Stampers" and I wouldn't pay $150 for any LP but I'm not going to begrudge anyone who wants to.
 
dodog said:
Your two paragraphs/statements are at odds with each other. The point of buying a UK Beatles pressing is for the sound quality, i.e. to get the best sounding copy available. This is exactly what a "Hot Stamper" is, as you go on to explain. There may be hundreds or thousands of run-of-the-mill albums for $10 but only a handful of "Hot Stampers". If you're looking for the absolute best pressing and are willing to shell out that kind of cash, why not? In this context I don't see why one category is acceptable but another isn't.

Full disclosure: I'm not endorsing "Hot Stampers" and I wouldn't pay $150 for any LP but I'm not going to begrudge anyone who wants to.
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Yes.....IMO The Beatles UK 1st pressings indeed do have the best sound quality. They also carry a hefty price tag because their collectible and historically significance. The same goes for rare vintage Jazz, Blues and early Rock & Roll. Many of these LPs are bought for their rarity alone and sometimes never even played.

On the other hand, Hot Stampers are purchased strictly for their sound quality based on someone's opinion(Yea...I know they have a money back guarantee). I'm not trying to begrudge anyone from buying them. Like yourself, I personally wouldn't pay big $$$ for one, but if someone does.....fine!

In my case, paying $100+ for an LP requires more than just great sound quality. Although in my experience, 1st pressings from the country of origin usually sound pretty fine. Rarity, condition and documented sales are equally as important when I purchase records at that price point.

I guess my reasoning comes from being a "high end" Beatles record collector during the 70's-80's, when I spent way more than I do now on a single record! Back then, those purchases were usually based on the rarity and value of the record/cover and not the sound quality. To each his own.....everyone has their own point of view!
 
So what happens when someone buys the best copy they have of an album - does the 2nd best copy then become the "best"? With no point of reference, I guess it would...
 
vinyl1 said:
The stamper is not necessarily sufficient. You really have to listen to the record to see how it sounds. The stamper has to be fresh, and the press has to be properly heated and loaded with good vinyl to get the very best results.

That's why there's no substitute for listening to many copies, which is what you're paying Better Records for. The do-it-yourself guys are just spending the equivalent amount in time.
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Time is money as the saying goes. $125 is the low end for a hot stamper. They just get more expensive. Hasn't anyone else here experimented with these? I can't be the only one.

The next best sounding LP I have is a Police Synchronicity mastered by Bob Ludwig. I stumbled onto that in a Goodwill for 99 cents, which is my preferred price range!
 
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Herr Eickhorn said:
Time is money as the saying goes. $125 is the low end for a hot stamper. They just get more expensive. Hasn't anyone else here experimented with these? I can't be the only one.
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This is AK don't you know? People love to ridicule or heckle things they've never tried or experienced. If $125 is too much money for them to spend, surely it's a waste of money for ANYONE to spend. It can't be worth it, it's snake oil.


:thmbsp:
 
Research. Research. Research. I know which copies of Stones LPs sound best or, to use the term, are "Hot Stampers." I've spent a few hundred bucks and many hours tracking down the best sounding version of "Sticky Fingers."

I do this because it is fun. Some folks prefer to save the time and order a "Hot Stamper." Good on them.

Different pressings of the same LP can sound remarkably different.
 
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