Is OLD vinyl better sounding than NEW vinyl?

[charles 1973]

Hey there's an Idea I never thought of. Search out and buy LP's, new and used that have the best mastering, if we can find them with an artist we like. That seems to be the key to a good LP, not how thick the Vinyl is or by brand. Perhaps if more of us did that the industry would wise up and stop selling Poor quality LP's and CD's.

I've bought 180 gram lp's from recomended brands that don't sound any better overall than a few $3.00 used LP's I bought. Don't get me wrong, my new ones for the most part sound good and I will continue to buy them, but they should kill a LP thats been through who know's what the last 40 year's, and often they don't.

 

[yaya97]

I just picked up the MONO 200 g Axis bold of love Hendrix by accousticsounds and it is IMHO incredible. I am only able to compare it to the original stereo I have and I must say the new one is much better balanced ... On the other hand my top sounding vinyl is Giant steps by Coltrane on the original black label from 1959. I compared it to a later Japanese version and the dynamics were far superior on the 1959.

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

Hey there's an Idea I never thought of. Search out and buy LP's, new and used that have the best mastering, if we can find them with an artist we like. That seems to be the key to a good LP, not how thick the Vinyl is or by brand.

That also works with CD's and probably every other source. I had a new CD copy of Legend by Bob Marley. Then on the Hoffman forum they said the best CD copies were the old ones done by Bob Diament. So I got an old copy that was mastered by him and it was way superior to the new one. Subsequently, I bought all 10 Marley CD's mastered by Diament. They are all awesome. The Led Zeppelin CD's done by Bob Diament are also suppose to be great.

 

[spaceman]

I am certainly not going to fault you for spending the money to see if the so-called "Hot Stamper" has merit. According to your deadwax info you have a very early pressing and obviously one that was not played much and would be considered NM. The "RTB" is for Roy Thomas Baker. Your B side is "original" in that, as far as I can tell, that is the earliest pressing using the the freshest masters. Your A side is once removed thus the 1 after the "PRCW", but still very early. I have this album, bought it as soon as it was released and have the same stampers you do except my A side is "Original", no 1 after "PRCW".

Aha, thanks for the explanation. :thmbsp: Mine has 6E-135-A-8-AR (space, then smaller lettering) B-14170 then RTB, all hand-written, then Sterling stamped, and on side 2, 6E-135-B-9-AR (space) B-14171 RTB Sterling. This one has a $3.98 sticker from Half Price Books, but since I never shop there, I probably got it for $1 or 2 at a thrift, & it's NM, with one tiny scratch on side 1. I'm gonna spin it up soon, after side 4 of The Beatles finishes. I agree with your other post, first pressings are usually best, or at least adequate. I never look up wax info before buying, because I never know what I'll find, LOL, but I have REALLY good luck with finding good stuff, so don't antipate any changes.

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

Aha, thanks for the explanation. :thmbsp: Mine has 6E-135-A-8-AR (space, then smaller lettering) B-14170 then RTB, all hand-written, then Sterling stamped, and on side 2, 6E-135-B-9-AR (space) B-14171 RTB Sterling. This one has a $3.98 sticker from Half Price Books, but since I never shop there, I probably got it for $1 or 2 at a thrift, & it's NM, with one tiny scratch on side 1. I'm gonna spin it up soon, after side 4 of The Beatles finishes. I agree with your other post, first pressings are usually best, or at least adequate. I never look up wax info before buying, because I never know what I'll find, LOL, but I have REALLY good luck with finding good stuff, so don't antipate any changes.

Let us know what you think. The easiest way for me to describe my hot stamper copy of the Cars is that its lively. The sound just grabs me & pulls me in. I totally get immersed and into the music. I find myself singing along! The MoFi copy, in comparison, is dead. The sound doesn't grab me and pull me in. Nothing happens for me. I just sit there.

 

[spaceman]

Oh yeah, this is a good copy, it really does sound very nice. :thmbsp: The only problem is that tiny scratch I mentioned, you can hear it after all, and it's on the 1st 2 tracks. :sigh: It's really not THAT bad, but it does keep this particular disc from being perfect. The sound is great though, it's taking me a long time to type this, because I keep listening to the music.

 

[cwall99]

Bob Ludwig, Doug Sax, George Piros, Bernie Grundman, Stan Ricker come to mind, I sure there are many others that knew what was what.

I have a Dixie Dregs LP (Night of the Living Dregs) that Stan Ricker did, and it's amazing. He also did the re-master for the MoFi DSotM record I bought in 1979. Another nice record.

 

[spaceman]

Hmm, it seems my copy of Candy-O is the same, RTB Sterling, with the red Elektra labels, and sounds just as good. The cover's not quite as nice, but I don't care too much about that, and the original inner sleeves on both are NM. :thmbsp: I also have Heartbeat City here, which I've never listened to, but it's a Canadian WEA pressing, so we'll see. :scratch2:

 

[iceman79]

I would say the original 1st pressing would should be set as the bench mark for sound quallity. There are 2nd, 3rd, 4th pressing that are 'old' too but usual's not the same as that 1st pressing. Then it is a question of what what new reissue/remastering will better that original pressing.

 

[Pio1980]

I have a Dixie Dregs LP (Night of the Living Dregs) that Stan Ricker did, and it's amazing. He also did the re-master for the MoFi DSotM record I bought in 1979. Another nice record.

I'll have to dig ours out and check it then, haven't played it since I upgraded the sys from nostalgia to audiophile.

 

[slow_jazz]

I don't own a ton of new vinyl but they sure seem to be very quiet..

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

I don't mean to revive an old thread but I have some relevant info to add. A couple of AKers suggested I find another original STERLING copy of the Cars and do a sound test. So for those who might be interested, I did just that & listened last night. Here are the dead wax codes:

Side one: STERLING SP R-144033-A RTB
Side two: STERLING SP R-144033-B RTB

This record came off eBay and was in VG condition. The sound was not good. The best word to describe it would be annoying. It is the worse of the 3 copies.

The Hot Stamper is clearly #1. MoFi 2nd and the STERLING eBay copy 3rd.

This test cost me $170.20 for the 3 LP's. So call me crazy if you want but I did learn a lot first hand.

I think the most valuable lesson I learned is that finding good source material may take more time, effort and money than I thought. This is a relevant consideration for me since I don't have many LP's. And before I spend thousands on a nice vinyl rig, I need to see just how elusive good source material may be. So for me, it was $170.20 well spent!

 

[Condorsat]

...

 

[grooveman]

I doubt I could weed my 4000+ LP collection down to 1000, let alone 50. That said......I know a few people that own say 500 records and they're perfectly happy with that size of collection, maybe adding only 20 new additions a year.

 

[Apoplectic]

I'm still kind of a vinyl noob, so bear with me a bit.

From what I understand a Hot Stamper record is one of the first records stamped by a die. Is there any way to look at a record and tell if it is a hot stamper or not? Say you're looking through some albums a record shop and they've got several copies of the album you are looking for. They all seem to be in VG+ condition or so. If you were looking to get the hottest stamped record what would you look for, the sharpness of the peaks of the groove, which one has more of a iridescent sheen or what?

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

I'm still kind of a vinyl noob, so bear with me a bit.

From what I understand a Hot Stamper record is one of the first records stamped by a die. Is there any way to look at a record and tell if it is a hot stamper or not? Say you're looking through some albums a record shop and they've got several copies of the album you are looking for. They all seem to be in VG+ condition or so. If you were looking to get the hottest stamped record what would you look for, the sharpness of the peaks of the groove, which one has more of a iridescent sheen or what?

I'm no expert, but I'll give your question a shot. I think it all starts with an understanding of the matrix codes in the dead wax. And learning that stuff is complex and no easy task. So understanding those codes and selecting LP's based on those codes increases the probability of finding a hot stamper.....but in no way guarantees it. I think that's how the hot stamper guy makes his first cut. Then it comes down to listening to many copies and selecting the LP's with exceptional sound. Its all very tedious and time consuming, which is why the HS records cost so much.

So the answer to your first question is No.

I just got done comparing my Hot Stamper copy with another seemingly identical copy. I used a magnifying glass. Since I have a Scientific background this stuff sort of fascinates me. In any case, they seem identical. But on a closer look, there are many subtle differences in the label. But what surprised me the most was the size of the dead wax area. The inferior copy had a dead wax area over twice the width of the hot stamper copy. So obviously it came from a stamper with a tighter spiral cut. I'm not sure what that means, but it was a difference that really popped out at me. Then, of course, there's the huge sound difference.

You should do your own tests. Its actually very fun and entertaining. I wanted to find out for myself, because if you read AK you will find many people with different opinions. So I wasn't going to believe the people screaming "BS." And I certainly wasn't going to believe the guy who puts his gear on "magic pillows." So I did my own experiment. The crazy thing is, is that the guy with the magic pillows is more right than the people screaming BS! So do your own tests and decide for yourself.

 

[Lost Monkey]

Thanks for following up! I guess for most of us there is a certain thrill in finding a better sounding copy of a record and the discourse in this thread has really opened my eyes to taking a more critical listen to some of my LPs.

 

[Apoplectic]

Interesting. I'll have to look into the dead wax thing. Also were there any differences in the vinyl groove that you saw with the magnifying glass? I've got a 20x jewelers loupe Icould take with me next time I hit a record shop.

I wish I could test it myself, unfortunately I have to struggle to scrape together $20 for new records, $125 is out of the question for me.

 

[libertycaps]

I used to get very excited when i saw "Wally/Wly," "A Porky Prime Cut," "STERLING" or "RL" in the deadwax. Now? Not so much. It's second nature to look at the deadwax and label in order to find the earliest pressing in VG+ or better shape i can. I still have alot to learn, but once you get an eye for original/early reissue LP pressings, you kinda just have it. There are many websites that have tons of issue/reissue, label, deadwax stuff if you really want to get picky.

Long story short: Why pay thru the nose for new production LPs or "Hot Stampers" when there are so many vintage original pressings in the used bins? Hounding is half the fun.

 

[Apoplectic]

So if it says Sterling or RL in the dead wax its an early pressing? Sweet I think I have a few thart do say that, I know for sure my Steppenwolf--The S.econd album is, its one of my favs