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Is this arcing?

You're probably overthinking this.
Tubes fail, that's why they're in sockets.

Rectifier is gassy, replace it.

I know the thread became a bit long to fully read through, but ya, we've come to this conclusion as well. It's good to hear more voices in agreement though.

"theres things in life you cant know. Dont waste a whole lot of time trying to know the unknowable."

Sage words -- this is going into my 'quotable quotes' file (yes, I actually keep a Google Keep folder of random quotes).
 
Reviving this thread with good news -- I was a bit slow to get there, and to finally post about it, but I finally got my new type 80 rectifier installed in the Yamamoto. That was it! This thing sounds absolutely beautiful now... wow, first SET amp here, and I'm smitten. I've been calling it 'relaxed ultra resolution' -- deep holographic and spacious soundstage, teeming with microdetail 'plankton', all while remaining relaxed in overall character -- effortlessly performing at a high level without breaking a sweat. Hi, here's your bed in the clouds...

Not all is 'flawless' yet though... I did notice that my right channel has a tizzy buzzing that appears after the amp has warmed up for 10 minutes or so... while the left channel remains DEAD quiet, even with my ear right next to the driver. This leads me to guess that the noise is induced by my right channel 45 output tube... But I'm not sure. It isn't a fatal flaw -- I can't even hear it (maybe just barely) from my listening seat, and certainly not when music is playing. Using my dB meter, I measured about 44dB with the microphone just a couple inches from the driver.

I don't know if what I'm hearing is actually normal for tubes that are nearly a century old (perhaps there is a normal variance), or if this actually indicates a dying tube (or other issue). It only occurs in one channel, and the sound varies with warm-up time and in character, so this eliminates the possibility of the cause being a ground loop, I think. Also, to note, there is an ammeter built into the Yamamoto, and it's indicating that both tubes are squarely in the 'healthy' range (about 34mA)... but I'm assuming that the ammeter isn't a 'tell-all' about a tube's overall health.

I happen to have a sensitive field recorder, and recorded a couple minutes of the right channel last night after the amp had been on for a while. I posted it to Youtube as a video -- linked below. Give it at least 10 seconds of listen time to hear how the tone and character of the buzzing shifts... it isn't constant. The microphones are only a few inches from the driver, so the volume is much more pronounced than what it actually sounds like to a human ear. So, what do we have here -- a dying tube or a healthy tube that is just a little 'noisy by nature'? As per the usual, all shared knowledge is gold -- thanks AK'ers.

 
Don’t know if you’ve a bad 717a, or 45. Maybe something internal. Personally I would not be operating it with 60hz hum. I’ve steered away from globe type tubes. I’m having good results with Emissions Labs solid plate 45’s.
Swap locations with the preamp tubes first.
On another note, pun intended. Check your input source. Maybe just a cable issue.
Shorting jacks come in handy for sorting those issues out.
 
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Don’t know if you’ve a bad 717a, or 45. Maybe something internal.

Ah, good point... I hope it's just a tube. I gather that this is not normal operating noise then?

Personally I would not be operating it with 60hz hum. I’ve steered away from globe type tubes.

Check your input source. Maybe just a cable issue.

The nature of the noise varies... it only begins after the amp has warmed up for 10 minutes or so. Wouldn't this eliminate the possibility of the cause being either of these suggestions?

Swap locations with the preamp tubes first

I'd like to try this... I took a quick look at the 'manual' that came with the amp, and it's seemingly indicating that I need to adjust the plate voltage if I change the 717a's... Is this pretty standard practice? These aren't just 'plug-n-play', so to speak? It's hard to understand the text, as it's a poor translation from Japanese to English... I'll upload it here to share.
 

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not sure why but for some reason when a fuse blows, many people's first instinct is to stick a larger one in there.

So that the equipment`s short will magically fix (clear) itself ! Or the original fuse was somehow defective, because it blew, but shouldn`t have !

I learned many, many decades ago to confirm the equipment`s inserted fuse against the fuse holders listed value before even thinking about variac`g up the device, as part of the initial visual examination.

Too much exposure to the all to frequently of low voltage, but always much higher ampere rating (Hold my Beer, I got this) substituted fuses pulled from the American 60~70s vehicles of the same physical sizes found in equipment brought to me !
 
Without going back to the start of this thread, did I recall the previous owner observed the same behavior with the rectifier? If so, the amplifier has been subjected arcing type 80 much too long. Even more so while filming a video. About the subject of fuses, is the fuse's amperage rating correct? Not that it will entirely save it from further damage, make sure it is the correct rating. Operate the unit as least as possible if so. It will not matter to swap sides with either preamp or output tubes. Start with outputs if it's easier. It's a process of elimination at this point to see if the noise follows a tube.
My A-08S is dead quiet with >100db Klipsch CF4.
And you are sure there's nothing nasty entering from the source? Why I mentioned shorting plugs.
 
did I recall the previous owner observed the same behavior with the rectifier? If so, the amplifier has been subjected arcing type 80 much too long. Even more so while filming a video.

Eh, the previous owner said that it wasn't arcing when he had it -- just slightly gassy... so as far as I know, it only arced when I first turned it on (for a few seconds), and when I did it again to make the video, as I was trying to diagnose. I never turned it on again after that... Maybe even that was enough to damage something, not sure... I never turned it on after that video, until I had replaced the type 80.

About the subject of fuses, is the fuse's amperage rating correct?

It's the original fuse -- nothing has been modified from factory on the amp.

It will not matter to swap sides with either preamp or output tubes. Start with outputs if it's easier. It's a process of elimination at this point to see if the noise follows a tube.

So I can just freely swap the 717a and the 45 tubes without having to adjust anything? That manual is so confusing -- doesn't it make it sound like I need to readjust the plate voltage with the 717a swap? Of course, it's such broken English, it could be talking about a toaster oven for all I know...

My A-08S is dead quiet with >100db Klipsch CF4.

Ah, a fellow A-08s owner! That's great -- now I can cross-compare to someone with the exact same circuitry. That's amazing that you're dead quiet on those Klipsch. I'm running a pair of Omega Compact Alnico Monitors with about 95dB efficiency, so that means the noise I'm hearing would be much more pronounced on your system.

And you are sure there's nothing nasty entering from the source?

Well, I guess I can't be 100% positive, come to think of it... I could test this by using another source, or another amp connected to my pre-amp. I'm almost certain this isn't the cause though, because the buzzing doesn't come up until the amp warms up for a while, where-as my source components are on all the time.
 
Just swap the tubes and see if the sound goes to the other channel. If so, then its a tube. No need to adjust anything.
 
Just swap the tubes and see if the sound goes to the other channel. If so, then its a tube. No need to adjust anything.

I'll try this first I think. I just copied the text in the manual that talks about the swap... Apparently there is a rose attachment. :idea:

"Furthermore, the vacuum tube. 717A for the first stage of this machine are not able to promote the exchange to the one who is not detailed to the

electric circuit because there is much rose attachment. Please adjust it so that it becomes the plate voltage of 717A 110V-170V on the occasion of the exchange adjustment."
 
Don't worry about it. You're not going to hurt anything. It's just a tube amp not a telephone operators board. Just swap the left 45 for the right 45 and give it about 10 minutes. If the hum still develops in the same channel, then just swap 'em back and know that it isn't the 45 tube.

Swap the two 717A's and do the same thing. If the hum goes to the other speaker, then you have a bad 717A. If it stays in the original problematic channel, then it's not a tube problem. Just swap 'em back after the test. No problems. Don't know what rose means in the manual. Never heard of it before.
 
Ok, I'll give it a try later tonight.

If I find out that it is the 717a, and I buy a new set, do I then need to adjust the plate voltage when I do a 'permanent' tube swap? I'm confused.
 
No not if you are using the same wall voltage. The 717A tubes are just the preamp tubes and are both identical. Bias adjustments usually refer to the output tubes when you need or buy new one's. Besides, it's not the plate voltage that gets adjusted, it's the screen grids.
 
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Ooooh, I see -- it just clicked... what the manual must have been talking about is a plate adjustment in case someone brings the amp to another country with another voltage. That's what they meant at the end of the part I quoted - "on the occasion of the exchange adjustment".

I'm quite relieved that I can just swap the tubes easily, as I originally had thought. Thanks cademan!
 
Last night I remembered that the previous owner had sent me an extra set of 717a's. I climbed in the attic and dug them out, and replaced the current 717a in the right channel... Bull's eye! The buzzing noise is completely gone. Great suggestions here, pointing me towards trying the pre-amp tubes first.

There is still a very small amount of 'hum' coming from my right channel, more than my left... But, it's minor enough that I'm inclined to think it may just be the normal noise floor, or variances between the tubes of the right and left channel... First SET amp here, so I'm not sure if this is normal? To put it into perspective, I can't even hear it unless my ear is within a ~foot of the driver, whereas my left channel is hard to hear even with my ear 2 inches from the driver. @hogwylde09 I wonder if you hear a similar noise floor in your A-08s?

It has me wondering about the health of the 45 in my right channel -- I noticed that there is hardly any getter left at all... Curious if this is indicative of a tube that's just about spent?

c1YOht8.jpg

ewUWuIX
 
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Last night I remembered that the previous owner had sent me an extra set of 717a's. I climbed in the attic and dug them out, and replaced the current 717a in the right channel... Bull's eye! The buzzing noise is completely gone. Great suggestions here, pointing me towards trying the pre-amp tubes first.

There is still a very small amount of 'hum' coming from my right channel, more than my left... But, it's minor enough that I'm inclined to think it may just be the normal noise floor, or variances between the tubes of the right and left channel... First SET amp here, so I'm not sure if this is normal? To put it into perspective, I can't even hear it unless my ear is within a ~foot of the driver, whereas my left channel is hard to hear even with my ear 2 inches from the driver. @hogwylde09 I wonder if you hear a similar noise floor in your A-08s?

It has me wondering about the health of the 45 in my right channel -- I noticed that there is hardly any getter left at all... Curious if this is indicative of a tube that's just about spent?

c1YOht8.jpg

ewUWuIX
Non whatsoever.
 
So... a little update here. Furthering on my 'chasing ghosts' investigation into this very minimal 'hum' I had through my speakers, I replaced every tube with the NOS backups that I had purchased. I realized it made more sense (to me) to start with a fresh set of tubes all around, rather than using the 'remainder' of the tubes that were shipped with the amp... Since I have no idea how much 'life' is left on those tubes, why not keep those as backups and run with the new tubes instead? I liked this idea, and also hoped it would solve the 'hum' I was hearing.

To recap, the hum was stronger in the right channel, and only appeared after maybe an hour after the amp was on, strongly indicating a heat-related phenomenon. Changing the tubes greatly helped! It reduced the hum by about 50%, but it still remained... Since I was 'on the job', so to speak, I decided to swap my left and right channel tubes to see if the hum would follow. I figured this would tell me if it's caused by the tubes, or something in the amp circuit. Well... after the L/R channel swap, the hum was nearly completely gone, and all that remained was a basically equal amount of very very very low level hum on each channel... Which, again, was only audible with my ear basically pressed up next to the driver. From everything I've read on the subject, all SET amps hum to some degree, by the nature of their circuit (unlike push-pull amps)... and it's just a matter of degree of 'how much' hum there is -- ranging from barely audible with ear-to-speaker, to 'this is annoying even when music is playing'. Fortunately, I seem to be waaaay on the 'quiet' end of this scale, so I'd venture to guess that the amp is working perfectly as intended.

I'm totally baffled why the tube swaps would yield such a seemingly random result though... Logically you would think that either the slight hum that was originally in the right channel would either remain there, or be equally swapped to the left channel... but for it to disappear --?? What voodoo is this? One thought I had, based on reading another thread, is that it could actually be caused by the fit between a particular tube and socket... These old tubes commonly have corrosion built up on the pins, and the only thing I did before inserting them was to carefully clean them with isopropyl alcohol... So, maybe I'm hearing the slight effects of some resistance between the tube pin and the socket sleeve... Shrug, I have no idea. Does this sound plausible, or is there a more likely explanation?

Obsessive compulsive noise hunting aside, this amp sounds absolutely fantastic, and I'm totally happy with my venture into SET-landia.

I recently went on another crazy speaker arrangement spree, changing positions all over the place -- sliding seating location as well. On my last night before I had to leave for a while again, I felt like I had found a hard-fought, hard-won amazingly fine-tuned location. I sat down for a listening session, and *ya*, wow, it really did sound great. Then, after a few tracks, suddenly my left channel just cuts out, with only some slight crackling remaining! I immediately stopped the music, and jumped up to shut the amp off. I haven't turned it back on since.

Oye ve, I've had my fair share of hiccups as I put this new system together, let me tell' ya... But, such is the way. I have no idea on this one, and I know that nobody can help me here -- I just need to get back and diagnose everything to first figure out what component failed in the first place. I didn't notice, in my flurry, if all the tubes were still glowing in the Yamamoto. It almost sounded like a cable suddenly disconnected, but upon checking, everything was snug and secure. I wonder if an internal connecting wire wiggled loose in the speaker -- it sure sounded like it. If this is the case, I worry about the amp for a new reason -- knowing that it can be quickly damaging to run a tube amp with no load / resistance... Hopefully turning it off within a few seconds was sufficiently fast for no damage to occur.

Anyways, I don't know -- I'll come back and update again once I return to my studio and dig in to the problem. Cheers everyone, and happy holidays!
 
Oh -- took out my 'good camera' to take some pics of the cool blue / violet glow on the new 45s.

 
Don't be afraid to turn it back on. Sounds like it could have been just a loose cable or just slightly rock the preamp tubes in their sockets. You can't really hurt anything.

Maybe think about getting a different tube amp like a Scott or Fisher integrated. I owned a HHScott LK-48 through middle school and high school and a few years beyond without even a hiccup.
 
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