Jbl C44 Paragons Info Please Please
- Thread starter englissa
- Start date
As with Duffinator's 604Bs, there are dilemmas here.
Documenting the condition, yes.
But no serious collector wants a Paragon "fixed" by someone else....
Saint Johnny
Bon Ton Roule
How far south are you?
westend
Audiopile
Great score! You've got a speaker system that some collectors are willing to pay many tiimes over what you dished out. I hope you've goten some advice beyond the postings here about the importance of having an expert evaluate the condition of the system before testing. A shorted speaker wire or some other malady could cause serious damage and financial loss. If i was moving them about they would be wrapped in multiple layers of protection to insure there isn't any chance of damage.
Good luck with the Paragon and post back with your progress.
Good luck with the Paragon and post back with your progress.
Saint Johnny
Bon Ton Roule
As much as I'd love to help you out englissa.
And as much as I'd love to see a Paragon in person, you ARE waaaay far south. I'm all the way up by exit 18 on the NJTP. In fact, I'm prolly about 30 miles west of the NJTP.
Justen
Send Lawyers,Guns & Money
Documenting the condition, yes.
But no serious collector wants a Paragon "fixed" by someone else....
Gotta agree with Zilch here- fixed isn't going to work to the serious collector.
If you aren't going to keep them for yourself, document the hell out of them, don't touch a thing and be willing to ship them to Japan. They will pay dearly for completely original, less for restored and even less for "fixed".
Personally I'd restore them and keep them for myself. OTOH I have the space to set it up and I've always wanted one! But no one would think less of you for flipping them- their sound isn't one that everyone likes and they are crazy valuable...
englissa
Active Member
siint jonny Hey no problem and thanks for the thought, If any AKer close by wants a peek at them feel free to contact me, Like iI said before let's see exactly what I do have, Yes I know I can do more damage by not knowing what I'm doing,, Gonna go look at them after work and maybe my friend will give me a hadd moving them so that i can get some better pics and the info off the drivers , Dam aint this fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! night all englissa
Yes this thing is worth a small fortune however that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy your new 'toy'. Common sense goes a long way here.
You have already received some good information here. Don't stop here. You might want to start a thread at "Lansing Heritage' website asking for help. You might ask for a start-up procedure or how to get "JBL" involved in your venture.
You would think that because of how rare and expensive this guy is that they might jump at the chance to join the party. I don't know this but I would certainly bend their ear a little. Regardless you have everything to gain and nothing to loose by doing more research before doing anything other than documenting what you do have as has already been stated.
Don't confuse my enthusiasm to mean blindly forging ahead at any cost. Part of the fun in a new adventure like this is doing everything in an analytical manner. Just make sure all your "Is" are dotted and your "Ts" are crossed before even thinking about 'energizing' this thing. Plus leave the electronics sealed up until you are well down this road you are traveling.
The important thing is that it is yours to do with as you see fit just be aware of the potential risks involved and be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. It sounds kinda like you need a mentor. . . You might want to find yourself one then discuss everything you want to do with him/her before doing it. Just be sure that person has your best interests at heart and knows just about everything there is to know about this gear. I'm sure it can get frustrating with 20 people telling you what to do and what not to do. Find yourself an expert and use him.
Use your head. . . remember the carpenter's motto. . . Measure twice cut once.
You have already received some good information here. Don't stop here. You might want to start a thread at "Lansing Heritage' website asking for help. You might ask for a start-up procedure or how to get "JBL" involved in your venture.
You would think that because of how rare and expensive this guy is that they might jump at the chance to join the party. I don't know this but I would certainly bend their ear a little. Regardless you have everything to gain and nothing to loose by doing more research before doing anything other than documenting what you do have as has already been stated.
Don't confuse my enthusiasm to mean blindly forging ahead at any cost. Part of the fun in a new adventure like this is doing everything in an analytical manner. Just make sure all your "Is" are dotted and your "Ts" are crossed before even thinking about 'energizing' this thing. Plus leave the electronics sealed up until you are well down this road you are traveling.
The important thing is that it is yours to do with as you see fit just be aware of the potential risks involved and be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. It sounds kinda like you need a mentor. . . You might want to find yourself one then discuss everything you want to do with him/her before doing it. Just be sure that person has your best interests at heart and knows just about everything there is to know about this gear. I'm sure it can get frustrating with 20 people telling you what to do and what not to do. Find yourself an expert and use him.
Use your head. . . remember the carpenter's motto. . . Measure twice cut once.
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In which regard, let me explore just one of the dilemmas to which I allude above:
From the apparent vintage, it has a pair of LE15As in it. If those are still original, with Lansaloy surrounds, they are likely hardened, perhaps cracked. It's not possible to hear what the Paragon sounds like without remedying that situation; playing it with stiff surrounds on the woofers will produce even more compromised bass than it originally had, and risks cracking them if they are not so already, and splitting them if they are.
What's the remedy - DIY resurround? It'll cost as much as $2000 off the resale price to do that, very likely. Mr. Collector wants ORIGINAL surrounds, INTACT. To him, it's not about listening, it's about owning an icon with all associated bragging rights, and his are bigger with Lansaloy. Thus, if the Paragon has LE15As with factory original surrounds and Englissa wants to hear it without significantly compromising its value, the only way is to replace those woofers with a resurrounded pair and preserve the originals intact without playing them.
That's one example of why I'm suggesting to determine in detail what is actually there and make the appropriate analysis before doing anything else such as playing it.... :yes:
Duffinator
Spin The Black Circle
Originally Posted by Zilch
The proceeds of the sale of them would yield one of the following. Where's the "Naw, I'll keep 'em" point:
A) A new house
B) A new car
C) A pair of Model 19s AND a pair of VOTTs
D) Just a pair of Model 19s
E) TWO pair of Dynaco A-25s, suitable for stacking
[Heh, heh....]
The proceeds of the sale of them would yield one of the following. Where's the "Naw, I'll keep 'em" point:
A) A new house
B) A new car
C) A pair of Model 19s AND a pair of VOTTs
D) Just a pair of Model 19s
E) TWO pair of Dynaco A-25s, suitable for stacking
[Heh, heh....]
englissa, It's not often that opportunities like you have come around and I'd heed the advice given here by many. Take your time making any decisions and enjoy the journey!
englissa
Active Member
Zilch I went out and looked them over. I'm missing the little clips that hold the two half together, when we unloaded one of them a pair of the bolt on feet in a plastic bag was in the throat of one of the cabinets which rolled out as we sat it up, two feet are missing, (I will make some temp feet at work to use in the mean time ) using a mirror and a light I as able to check out the big woofer deep in the throat they both appear to be undamaged and the white surround is intacted with no cracks or splits that I could see. If a pair became avaiable and didnt break the bank I would consider maybe getting them as replacements ? Was wondering does jbl do repair work like the crossover unit thats in it , I'm sure if there caps in it they would need replacing would they not ? I can see this is going to be pain , What to fix, How to fix to help maintain a lot of its value , what's the chance of finding a set of original legs for it and those clips, got some pics in the camers but i need to resize them and just not in the mood at the moment to do that englissa
There are two black cast metal legs with levelers on the rear of the bottom of each enclosure, plus the sculpted wood one on the front. Those cannot be easily replicated, though suitable "look-alikes" could be made. Your chances of finding more originals is virtually nil, but you never know until you try.
You'll certainly want to resolve those issues before offering for sale. A Paragon with one corner on stacked phone directories will lack appeal to collectors. I'd put some effort into finding the missing legs immediately. They've got to be somewhere. I don't understand how it's standing without them, but will wait for the pics before speculating further about that.
The clips are simple sheet-metal fabrications, and can be easily made by a local shop.
If the white Lansaloy surrounds are intact, you are fortunate. Don't even think about playing them at this point, for the reasons I outlined above. You won't know their condition for certain until you remove the woofers for inspection and photographing as part of your documentation.
There should be two crossovers on each side. Forget about them. They either work or they don't, and the best answer is build new rather than rebuild or upgrade. If you decide to keep the Paragon, you replace those and store them safely until such time as you do eventually offer it for sale.
I appreciate that it's hard to consider each element in terms of opportunity costs, but look back to my original post here: even after full reconditioning, you may not find the sound to be all that, and anything you do which does not preserve the originality has the consequence of less value in the bank....
You'll certainly want to resolve those issues before offering for sale. A Paragon with one corner on stacked phone directories will lack appeal to collectors. I'd put some effort into finding the missing legs immediately. They've got to be somewhere. I don't understand how it's standing without them, but will wait for the pics before speculating further about that.
The clips are simple sheet-metal fabrications, and can be easily made by a local shop.
If the white Lansaloy surrounds are intact, you are fortunate. Don't even think about playing them at this point, for the reasons I outlined above. You won't know their condition for certain until you remove the woofers for inspection and photographing as part of your documentation.
There should be two crossovers on each side. Forget about them. They either work or they don't, and the best answer is build new rather than rebuild or upgrade. If you decide to keep the Paragon, you replace those and store them safely until such time as you do eventually offer it for sale.
I appreciate that it's hard to consider each element in terms of opportunity costs, but look back to my original post here: even after full reconditioning, you may not find the sound to be all that, and anything you do which does not preserve the originality has the consequence of less value in the bank....
englissa
Active Member
Hers are a few more pics of it at this link, They are stading on their ends
http://members.dandy.net/~englissa/paragon1/
englissa
http://members.dandy.net/~englissa/paragon1/
englissa
Nice Pictures!! Some interesting information gleaned through them:
1. You have both of the sculpted front legs and horn supports. That's great and they look in reasonable shape/condition.
2. Along with the SE402 energizer (two channel), you have the full complement of LX-5 low-mid crossover, and another crossover for the 075 tweeters. This means you can power the Paragon from the Energizer, or use a suitable separate amp for each channel, or you could Biamp (low to mid/hi) or Tri-amp. Great Flexibility!
3. From the pictures, you have some veneer sections missing from the curved panel. Couldn't tell if its on the bottom or top edges. Is there any significant veneer damage to the front of the convex radiating surface as it faces the listener/viewer? That is the surface which draws the most initial attention.
4. The other scrapes, scratches (top of one side), and small missing pieces are likely to be easy to repair, given a good woodworking shop or cabinet maker.
5. The components seem to be all in place, that is an 075 tweeter (label washed out in photo flash)?
6. Need to get opinions here about whether "fixing" the veneer with help from good woodworker/cabinet refinisher competent to do this is advisable or not. The replacement rear feet should be easy to get and I agree probably don't affect the value all that much.
7. Will be interesting to see what you find when you open the cabinet backs up to expose the woofers.
Things look fairly good so far, IMO, and thanks for indulging us vicariously with the photos and information.
Regards,
Bart
1. You have both of the sculpted front legs and horn supports. That's great and they look in reasonable shape/condition.
2. Along with the SE402 energizer (two channel), you have the full complement of LX-5 low-mid crossover, and another crossover for the 075 tweeters. This means you can power the Paragon from the Energizer, or use a suitable separate amp for each channel, or you could Biamp (low to mid/hi) or Tri-amp. Great Flexibility!
3. From the pictures, you have some veneer sections missing from the curved panel. Couldn't tell if its on the bottom or top edges. Is there any significant veneer damage to the front of the convex radiating surface as it faces the listener/viewer? That is the surface which draws the most initial attention.
4. The other scrapes, scratches (top of one side), and small missing pieces are likely to be easy to repair, given a good woodworking shop or cabinet maker.
5. The components seem to be all in place, that is an 075 tweeter (label washed out in photo flash)?
6. Need to get opinions here about whether "fixing" the veneer with help from good woodworker/cabinet refinisher competent to do this is advisable or not. The replacement rear feet should be easy to get and I agree probably don't affect the value all that much.
7. Will be interesting to see what you find when you open the cabinet backs up to expose the woofers.
Things look fairly good so far, IMO, and thanks for indulging us vicariously with the photos and information.
Regards,
Bart
englissa
Active Member
I looked quickly at the front of the curved panel and didnt notice anything missing, There is a guy I went to school with who is a carpentar/cabinet maker and I'm gonna get out there to see what he thinks he can do with them or maybe advise me who to contact, I PMed Zilch and got a lot of useful info from him about them I really would like to get them sitting side by side in the daylight and take some REALLY GOOD pics but they are WAY to heavy to move by myself,I'll leave them pictures there for a while so those who want to look can and If your within close distance to me,, your more than welcome to look at them yourself just contact me, Their not so far gone that they cant be brought be to respestable condition, perfect no but at least desent
All the driver labels are there and quite readable, gonna check the auction house to see if the outher pair of feet showed op or where to go and look for them , Enjoy the pics , enjoy the pics and see if i can inprove them Englissa
All the driver labels are there and quite readable, gonna check the auction house to see if the outher pair of feet showed op or where to go and look for them , Enjoy the pics , enjoy the pics and see if i can inprove them Englissa
Saint Johnny
Bon Ton Roule
That is truly a beautiful work of art!!! Even though it's in seperate pieces, and not looking as fine as it can, at the moment.
You can see the craftsmanship and care that went into building it. They don't make very many things that way anymore, period!! Let alone speaker systems.
Congrats, Englissa!!!
You can see the craftsmanship and care that went into building it. They don't make very many things that way anymore, period!! Let alone speaker systems.
Congrats, Englissa!!!
englissa
Active Member
pics
OK Guys and Girls here are mor pics of the paragons enjoy englissa
http://members.dandy.net/~englissa/Paragon 2/
OK Guys and Girls here are mor pics of the paragons enjoy englissa
http://members.dandy.net/~englissa/Paragon 2/
ponderbear
waltzing with sin
I don't think the veneer problems are unfixable, at least from the pics.
I'm happy for you... at the same time, insanely jealous!
I'm happy for you... at the same time, insanely jealous!