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JBL Century 100 recap

Zilch made a comment about how it really didn't make sense to spend too much on new crossovers and other mods for the L100 or 4311 trying to improve them, because it would be cheaper just to buy something newer and more sophisticated (he gave an example that I forgot). And yeah, I can see his point. Nonetheless, I might do it sometime, just for fun.
 
I've installed the crossovers designed by Troels G. in my L100s.

They took a speaker that sounded fairly obnoxious and turned them into something that was considerably better in my opinion.

Did any of you bother to look at the data that Troels provided? (aside from Zonker92, who appears to have done so)

As I mentioned before, I should have just waited to find a pair of 4412s, but I don't even think I was aware of what a 4412 was at the time I bought my L100s.

As our legendary Zilch stated, "fun but fake" applies, or at least in my opinion. I'd probably have dumped mine if it weren't for those crossovers. I don't listen to mine often now as I bought some NS-1000s a few years ago. I've wondered about upgrading the crossovers in the Yamahas to Troels' new design, or going active. Not sure, and the investment is pretty steep on those crossovers, app'x $500 if I recall correctly -- although an active solution is going to cost far more than that.

And if anyone has any questions regarding Troels' designs, send him an email. He great about responding. He does his own thing, but he reminds me of our own Zilch.

John
The specs are published, so cost is what ever the retail is for the parts. If you buy the "kits" then yes it's a tad on the expensive side and makes more sense to buy what might be considered superior speakers.

I'm not one to profess upgrading something, no expense spared, but I am one to weigh the value of the investment. I wouldn't put $500 (or more) into L100, let alone buy a pair for that price.

Zilch, who is well documented, wasn't averted to experimentation, just more often than not was really more practical about it.
 
Zilch made a comment about how it really didn't make sense to spend too much on new crossovers and other mods for the L100 or 4311 trying to improve them, because it would be cheaper just to buy something newer and more sophisticated (he gave an example that I forgot). And yeah, I can see his point. Nonetheless, I might do it sometime, just for fun.

I'd have to agree that spending money to change them, for better or worse (depending on one's opinion) isn't a solid investment. I have invested approximately $600 in the pair I have, and that's more than realistically I could expect out of selling them seeing they're not prestine. Perhaps $400? Eh, I don't care about the money on these so much. There's just something about them I like.

I'm guessing that Zilch probably mentioned the 4412, or so I remember.

Anyhow, I suppose, as it always does, it comes down to one's preference. If people are happy with them as they are, good for them.

I was just reacting to the 'too many components' comment. To each their own.

John
 
The specs are published, so cost is what ever the retail is for the parts. If you buy the "kits" then yes it's a tad on the expensive side and makes more sense to buy what might be considered superior speakers.

The specs on the kits I bought were not published, or at least not by Troels Gravesen. I could see specifically what to expect from the crossovers from what he published on his web site.

So you're going to have to explain to me why buying the "kits" I bought were a bad idea. I saw a wealth of information regarding them, and thought that they were a good DIY project. If Troels provided the component lists, I'd still have bought the kits from him, as I appreciated the work he put into the effort.

I bought a pair of speakers when, I will have to admit, I was less knowledgeable about sound quality. Figured I'd take on a project that provided better sound from them. Worked out well for me, but at a cost -- you deem the cost too high. Well, I'm not investing in L100s for an investment, that's for damn sure. Everything I buy I buy for the reason of listening. Could I have achieved my goal of better sounding speakers in a more cost efficient manner? Sure! But sometimes you just have to say 'WTF'.

I'm not one to profess upgrading something, no expense spared, but I am one to weigh the value of the investment. I wouldn't put $500 (or more) into L100, let alone buy a pair for that price.

Eh, I'd not put anything into a Mach 1, either, or anything else from Radio Shack. Not into receivers and there is little else they produced of interest to me. Mind you, I'm not ragging on RS, I just wanted to put into perspective what we perceive as valuable and the various definitions that can be derived from it. I look at JBL and see a company that has for years and years produced speakers that are a part of Americana. Like them or not, L100s were a big part of that. The L100 sold in HUGE numbers. I see them as addition to the baseball and apple pie thing.

The L100 has held a certain value for a long, long time. It's one of those speakers that is known the world over and is overvalued in my estimation. I won't deny that. But it isn't known for its sonic qualities. Well, not ones many people would attribute to good speakers.

Zilch, who is well documented, wasn't averted to experimentation, just more often than not was really more practical about it.

I recall a few conversations I had with Zilch regarding speakers via PM. He was, to say the least, an intriguing and intelligent man, who didn't hesitate to speak his mind -- which is what I appreciated about him the most.

I believe that he tried to keep the cost of the projects he published down, but I doubt he'd have had a problem with someone throwing money at something worthwhile. Is the L100 in that category? No, but I had fun building the crossovers all the same.

John
 
I'm not convinced there's a real argument here; just different opinions about whether to upgrade L100s or not. Obviously, not everyone chooses to do so. That's no shock.

I will add to the mix, though, the fact that on Troels's site (as compared to the Troels / Jantzen kits on Parts Express and Amazon) you can actually choose from a range of capactor and coil and wiring options to keep your costs down, with the cheapest L100 XO kits sold on Troels's site being "only" about $190 for a pair, IIRC. Plus shipping.

And Troels says that his kits are the same cost as buying the bare parts, which wouldn't surprise me. He's really just bundling them for you with some nice instructions.

The component values in the Troels schematic are not publicly published; just the wiring and layout. You could be a dick and buy the PE kit and copy the schematic on your own, then return it, but I think that would be pretty uncool.

No agenda here, just throwing out more information.
 
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I'm not convinced there's a real argument here; just different opinions about whether to upgrade L100s or not. Obviously, not everyone chooses to do so. That's no shock.

I will add to the mix, though, the fact that on Troels's site (as compared to the Troels / Jantzen kits on Parts Express and Amazon) you can actually choose from a range of capactor and coil and wiring options to keep your costs down, with the cheapest L100 XO kits sold on Troels's site being "only" about $190 for a pair, IIRC.

And Troels says that his kits are the same cost as buying the bare parts, which wouldn't surprise me.

The component values in the Troels schematic are not publicly published; just the wiring and layout. You could be a dick and buy the PE kit and copy the schematic on your own, then return it, but I think that would be pretty uncool.

No agenda here, just throwing out more information.

You're probably right, Zonker92.

I don't want to blow things out of proportion -- Copa1934, I'm not targeting you, if that's what it looks like.

When I bought my x-overs, I bought them from Jantzen, via Troels:

We are very glad for your interest in the popular JBL L100 Upgrade kit designed by Troels Gravesen.

The total amount for USA customers incl. forwarding by parcel post is US $ 260.00 (200.00 + 60.00).

**********************************************************************************************

Damn, the date on that email is Dec, '07. can't believe it's been ~4.5 years since I've had them. I have to admit it's probably been a few years since I rotated them into the system, I did that just a little while ago. Oh, and I wanted to mention I don't think there were different levels of the x-overs you could buy then. The only option was the whole kit. I see where there are various levels as you mention of varying component quality from what I can gather.

I moved (and managed to pull a muscle in my back moving the NS-1000Ms) the Yamahas out and hooked up the JBLs. They sound very great! I'll leave them in the setup for several months. Well, there's still a midbass hump, but on techo, that's not such a bad thing. I did buy ZilchPlugz(tm) and have them sitting here waiting for a install. In Zilch's honor, I damn well feel obligated to do it. Not tonight, but sometime soon. I might get some shots of the x-overs while I'm in there.

The midrange/tweeter side o' it, I think that the x-overs did work well for me. I like them this way.

Zonker92: I recall someone mentioning something about someone buying the NS-1000M kits from Troels and publishing the components here. Even if I bought the x-over kits for my NS-1000Ms, there's no way in hell I'd publish anything about them other than I might have bought them. When Troels says at cost, I doubt that he's doing anything otherwise. The projects he takes on might be expensive, but it's because that's just the way it is.

John
 
The specs on the kits I bought were not published, or at least not by Troels Gravesen. I could see specifically what to expect from the crossovers from what he published on his web site.

So you're going to have to explain to me why buying the "kits" I bought were a bad idea. I saw a wealth of information regarding them, and thought that they were a good DIY project. If Troels provided the component lists, I'd still have bought the kits from him, as I appreciated the work he put into the effort.

I bought a pair of speakers when, I will have to admit, I was less knowledgeable about sound quality. Figured I'd take on a project that provided better sound from them. Worked out well for me, but at a cost -- you deem the cost too high. Well, I'm not investing in L100s for an investment, that's for damn sure. Everything I buy I buy for the reason of listening. Could I have achieved my goal of better sounding speakers in a more cost efficient manner? Sure! But sometimes you just have to say 'WTF'.



Eh, I'd not put anything into a Mach 1, either, or anything else from Radio Shack. Not into receivers and there is little else they produced of interest to me. Mind you, I'm not ragging on RS, I just wanted to put into perspective what we perceive as valuable and the various definitions that can be derived from it. I look at JBL and see a company that has for years and years produced speakers that are a part of Americana. Like them or not, L100s were a big part of that. The L100 sold in HUGE numbers. I see them as addition to the baseball and apple pie thing.

The L100 has held a certain value for a long, long time. It's one of those speakers that is known the world over and is overvalued in my estimation. I won't deny that. But it isn't known for its sonic qualities. Well, not ones many people would attribute to good speakers.



I recall a few conversations I had with Zilch regarding speakers via PM. He was, to say the least, an intriguing and intelligent man, who didn't hesitate to speak his mind -- which is what I appreciated about him the most.

I believe that he tried to keep the cost of the projects he published down, but I doubt he'd have had a problem with someone throwing money at something worthwhile. Is the L100 in that category? No, but I had fun building the crossovers all the same.

John
First I got my info wrong, going from memory unfortunately. There is a diagram detailing the components used but NOT the values. My error.

Second I didn't intent to offend anyone but I manged to anyway. Again my error.

I'm human, like anyone else, I hope.
 
OK, I have the speakers apart, crossovers out, etc. There are no value indications on the caps. Which is 8 and which is 3? They are identical in size.
If I assume, the 8 is linked to the presence pot and 3 to brilliance pot? But you know what they say about assumptions.
 
OK, I have the speakers apart, crossovers out, etc. There are no value indications on the caps. Which is 8 and which is 3? They are identical in size.
If I assume, the 8 is linked to the presence pot and 3 to brilliance pot? But you know what they say about assumptions.

It's been a long time since I worked on my 4311s, but I think that's a safe assumption. This thread may show the values in situ; it's about recapping the virtually-identical 4311:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106180

More pix:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5596338&postcount=6
 
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Publishing someone else's work would be awful cruel. VL published all mods for the Mach One with the expressed comments they were NOT to be marketed/sold for profit. Far as I know all who have performed said mods have been very happy and have completely respected that request.

I have a great deal of respect for anyone who puts significant investment in something "just because". And do it for nothing in return. While Troel isn't the same as VL's approach, it's still quite respectable, and the investment should be respected.
 
Making progress here. Here's the re-capped and re-wired crossover. I went with Auricap and Audience Auric wire. All I need now are the new input terminals ( on the way ) and I'll button them up and enjoy.
 

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Wow; extremely sanitary. Strong work!

Where did you get the back plate for the terminals? It looks a lot nicer that the generic plastic cups everyone sells.
 
Wow; extremely sanitary. Strong work!

Where did you get the back plate for the terminals? It looks a lot nicer that the generic plastic cups everyone sells.

Hey Z, thanks for the kind words. That anodized plate came from Parts Express.
Even has a foam seal. Worked like a charm.
 
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