JBL L300/136a Help

[hjames]

I think a 2235 without mass ring is a 2234

When I was building up my custom L200s into 3 ways, I also had a pair of 4341 4 way monitors.
The PO owner had installed 2234s into the 4341s - and I got 2235s from a Lansing member in Canada - so - I actually had both 2234s and 2235s to work with. I tried both and preferred the 2234s (without the mass ring) in the 3 ways, and put the 2235s in the 4341 4 ways.
The 3 ways wound up being very charming speakers - if I had L300s and needed woofers I'd do the same. It seemed to hit faster and a bit lower than the 2235s - (less mass, made sense to me).

 

[Nyjblbob]

You had 4341's and now don't? what did you replace them with?

 

[hjames]

You had 4341's and now don't? what did you replace them with?

Something that wasn't so damned analytical. Just too critical for some recordings - and remember -
4341s were the start of those big 4 ways and evolved a lot into the 4343s and 4345s.
Actually I've had multiple DCMs in that room (TF 1000s, TF700, TF600s - kept the TF600s for Rear surround use),
then multiple Vandersteens (3As, 2CEs and 3CIs).
Currently I have 2 pair of UREI 809A coaxials plus a B460 for bottom end - much more musically pleasant.

 

[SaturationPt]

BTW, you don't need the mass ring to bottom out a JBL woofer with heavy bass. Given enough deep bass, they will all do it with a loud "clank."

I remember the sound well from the 252F in my LSR6312SP, and that one had a limiter and dynamic braking coil to prevent it!

 

[turboyam]

As are mine. I put 2235 cones on AlNiCo 2205 baskets. T/S parameters are like the 2235 as confirmed using Woofer Tester-2.

Yep, exactly, measured mine (2205) with my woofer tester-2 also. Did nor re-mag mines tho... As much as we love our JBL vintage drivers, i think we need modern X-Max (longer)
excursion, for modern bass contents in music and/or cinema sound tracks.
And no, i'm not a fan of sub-woofasss!.

 

[Jeffery]

I was pretty surprised at the breaking stuff/falling off the wall ~20Hz content I get with the modern 15" JBL woofers, had 'em flopping pretty hard at 15Hz during the port tuning phase, never bottomed out. I have pushed them really hard during the DSP tuning phase, and just can't get over how loud they play the low stuff and the cone isn't even really moving. I have 250Ti and this new stuff is just next level (yeah, 14" vs 15", but still...) I have bottomed the LE14H-1 out more than once at nowhere near the level these things can play at. I've had a lot of fun the last couple of months, it still amazes me what's going on here.

 

[powerman]

I wouldn't be so sure. There is no mention of it in the literature.

file:///C:/Users/Todd/Downloads/2231a_manual%20(1).pdf

Here is the list of the drivers using a mass ring. Some not if the cone was Aquaplased

 

[Nyjblbob]

Something that wasn't so damned analytical. Just too critical for some recordings - and remember -
4341s were the start of those big 4 ways and evolved a lot into the 4343s and 4345s.
Actually I've had multiple DCMs in that room (TF 1000s, TF700, TF600s - kept the TF600s for Rear surround use),
then multiple Vandersteens (3As, 2CEs and 3CIs).
Currently I have 2 pair of UREI 809A coaxials plus a B460 for bottom end - much more musically pleasant.
.

Heather,
I know this an older thread, But Playing with my freshly re-coned 604'G's next to my 4343's
I agree with you! With my 4343's some lower quality recordings are horrible.
while the really good recording are well, great!
with the 604's most Recordings are more enjoyable. Tighter faster Bass, and a bit more coherent .
and being a former Singer, I can appreciate their Outstanding Vocals!
All the more reason to get to work and upgrade the X-overs in my 4343's.

 

[hjames]

Heather,
I know this an older thread, But Playing with my freshly re-coned 604'G's next to my 4343's
I agree with you! With my 4343's some lower quality recordings are horrible.
while the really good recording are well, great!
with the 604's most Recordings are more enjoyable. Tighter faster Bass, and a bit more coherent .
and being a former Singer, I can appreciate their Outstanding Vocals!
All the more reason to get to work and upgrade the X-overs in my 4343's.

Yep - i just couldn't justify building completely new crossovers for the 4341s while I was building crossovers
and buying larger drivers and the walnut horns for the L200s - I had to decide which was my audiophile space.
And the downstairs "multimedia room" has a lower ceiling and is the lesser of the 2 listening spaces in the house.
Its the back of the house, faces north, so it has subdued light and more privacy.
Great for TV and movies, and nice so you can put something on while making or eating a meal.
But the upstairs room has a cathedral ceiling with skylights, has lots of natural light (not good for TV/Movies),
and is full of bookshelves and plants - frankly, everything sounds better in that room -
The L212s and Volkswoofer, the Von Schweikert VR4s, and the Heaths (Altec Valencias) -
Its just got more room for the sound to open up better ...
so the "lesser" Big JBL 4-ways went away. (Image circa 2009)

 

[Jeffery]

I set up some different profiles in my DSP using a compression driver midrange - one profile for really good stuff that that I can run nearly flat and let the things shine, one a little rolled off on the top, similar to the Harman House Curve for lesser stuff that's still not too bad, and one for some of those old classic rock CDs that just sound horrible without some serious intervention.

I like being able to still utilize the ultra-revealing nature of the beast when the source supports it or tone it down when needed, but I can definitely attest that one size didn't fit all in my case unless I wanted to settle for a middle of the road tune up that was maybe a little too rolled off for the good stuff and a little too hot for the nasty stuff. And honestly, that's about what the middle profile is and I could live with a response like that. It's so quick and easy to swap profiles that it let me go a step on either side when I want to.

I also set one up for TV/Movies that gets the dialog right on and has a pretty decent hump down low that's a little too much for most music. Gets some surprises that I never knew of, caught a Panda Express commercial with some serious low bass that caught me off guard. Wasn't expecting that from a commercial.

Don't get me wrong, there are times when a good ol' passive and a single amp sure sounds tempting, I just don't see me being the guy to nail something like that.

 

[Nyjblbob]

so the "lesser" Big JBL 4-ways went away. (Image circa 2009)

Certainly not doing those big 4 ways any favors tucked away in the corners.
I'm eventually going to pull out the big 376's in my 3 way en5 cabs and hook them up to some Smith Horn Clones on top, then rebuild those x-overs as well
Seeing as this thread is about woofers, I have after market cones in LE15B frames that do a fine job coming up to the 800cps horns.I Just had to open the second Port. More efficiency as well.
with practically no loss of Lower octave Bass, Better than the orig 136H's .
with the correct 2235 cones in them!

BTW is there a way to see if my 136H's have the mass rings???
Been down the Bi-amp Rabbit hole, probably get back to it after I have fun with the 604's

 

[Jeffery]

You have to pull the dust cap to see the mass ring (or lack of). And it's non-magnetic, so even a well placed magnet wouldn't tell.

 

[Nyjblbob]

You have to pull the dust cap to see the mass ring (or lack of). And it's non-magnetic, so even a well placed magnet wouldn't tell.

Yea not going to happen..
I did buy what was supposed to be a new pair of 2216nd-1's, but when they arrived they were the earlier 2216-nd,,, no-1, so Got a refund Luckily.

 

[hjames]

Certainly not doing those big 4 ways any favors tucked away in the corners.

You know what they say - don't wish or complain for the room that could be -
find a way to use the rooms that you have!
Frankly, we're happy here - we'll retire here,
and the UREI's play in those corners better than the 4341s ever would

 

[toddalin]

BTW is there a way to see if my 136H's have the mass rings???
Been down the Bi-amp Rabbit hole, probably get back to it after I have fun with the 604's

Run the T/S parameters using Woofer Tester-2 from Parts Express. If there is no mass ring, or if anything else weird is going on (like a weak magnet), it will show up in the results.

 

[Nyjblbob]

That is way above my pay grade

Run the T/S parameters using Woofer Tester-2 from Parts Express. If there is no mass ring, or if anything else weird is going on (like a weak magnet), it will show up in the results.

 

[Nyjblbob]

find a way to use the rooms that you have!

In my Small living room, I'm going to discard 1 couch and have one wall for the JBL's and the new wall for the Altec's.
Might even have enough room in the corners for my K-Horn Projects
But it's just me here, so there's no one to say NO!

 

[hjames]

In my Small living room, I'm going to discard 1 couch and have one wall for the JBL's and the new wall for the Altec's.
Might even have enough room in the corners for my K-Horn Projects
But it's just me here, so there's no one to say NO!

My wife has never said no - she came along on the trip to the recording studio in PA when I bought the 4341s - she's real supportive.
But neither one of us wanted to sell the house - and the 4341s were not a good fit, so a few years after I bought them,
I decided to sell them off.
I still have 4 pairs of big speakers in the upstairs listening room - but if the Realistic speakers don't sell once COVID winds down,
I'll gift them to the son of a good friend of mine who passed a few years back.

Image of us demoing the monitors before we bought them in 2007 -

 

[Nyjblbob]

Thats a Tall Ladder in that room! I bet those 4 ways sounded much better in it.
5 Relationships ago I had my pair in an even bigger room.
and they still needed 2 powered subs to Rock out.
But then the 4350's took care of that Issue.
Neither of my 2 Ex's were supportive of my Hobby/Obsession. Congrats on your support.

 

[edgewound]

At one time I was using a 130A (not D130) as a sub and would run into that situation occasionally. They bottom with a "clank" and no ring. And the 130A is a deeper basket/coil area than any cone that can be put into a "D130" basket including the 2205 and the 2235.

This is just plain wrong info, Todd. How many 130A have you actually reconed? I bet the answer is zero. Just more inaccurate info perpetuated on the internet.

The 130A cant do subwoofer duty unless the cabinet is humongous. It's an underhung design with a short coil in a deep gap. The difference between the 130A(2220) and most the other 4" coil drivers is the motor. The motor has a .350" top plate/gap depth. The D130 has a .280" gap depth. the frames are identical. The cones are identical. Light, smooth, curvilinear cone. First generation has one piece cone with paper surround. Next generation went to cloth double half roll surround. The spiders are identical. The voice coils have the same winding length. The 130A(2220) has a longer voice coil former to set the underhung voice coil in the gap, winding is edgewound copper. D130 is aluminum edgewound voice coil, equal length coil/gap for maximum efficiency. 130A(2220) is more linear, less distortion. The "clank" you heard was probably the cone starting to buckle under low frequencies it just could not produce.

LE15/150-4C/2215/2216 AlNiCo motors have a .600" top plate gap depth with underhung voice coils. Short coil/deep gap. Same with the ceramic versions of these drivers. Later model 150-4H is the same as an E145. The cones are the deeper straight sided, light cone that uses an adaptor ring attched the the top of the standard 15" frame...like the 130A/D130 frame.

Any older JBL driver model that ends in A/B/C is an AlNiCo motor. Newer models with G/H/J/F are ceramic(ferrite) motors.

My apologies if I come off as being a bit terse, but so much info put out there is just plain wrong, and continues to proliferate by people that should know better.