JBL speakers are they really that good?
- Thread starter Ken Boyd
- Start date
Uncle Paul
Super Member
I think you would be a bit surprised. JBL made extensive use of measurement and spent quite a bit of time dialing in crossovers to get the response they desired. I believe that JBL had the most extensive audio testing facility in the world at Northridge and perhaps still do. A real commitment was made in the post L100 years to provide accurate sound reproduction.
You can't really tell by appearance alone just how balanced a speaker is. A larger woofer is usually designed to produce a lower frequency as opposed to being louder than a smaller one. Higher frequency transducers are typically more efficient than those used for lower frequencies. Generally speaking there has to be padding to keep the HF drivers from overpowering the LF drivers. There are exceptions, but not where compression drivers and ring radiators are concerned.
SpeakerLabFan
< speakerlab 7's
Ken, respectfully I think you are completely missing the boat if you form an opinion about JBL based on the smaller 70s JBLs such as the L100/4311s.
Here's a comparison with speakers that you're familiar with...Like you, I have a pair of those Phase Linear III/Andromeda speakers. I love them and they are not going anywhere. I also have a pair of JBL 4430s. That lifelike in-the-room presence, dynamic range and room-filling soundstage produced by the Phase Linears? I think that the JBL 4430s deliver every bit of that room filling soundstage and presence and with more accuracy and clarity from the constant directivity bi-radial horn design. And they do it effortlessly. In my listening room with my gear to my ears. The 4430s get the nod over other speakers that I've owned, that said I have not owned the high-end infinitys.
:yes: ding, ding! Thanks, as I read this thread I've been recalling the many the great posts from Zilch on this topic. Sadly we lost Zilch earlier this year.
Here's a comparison with speakers that you're familiar with...Like you, I have a pair of those Phase Linear III/Andromeda speakers. I love them and they are not going anywhere. I also have a pair of JBL 4430s. That lifelike in-the-room presence, dynamic range and room-filling soundstage produced by the Phase Linears? I think that the JBL 4430s deliver every bit of that room filling soundstage and presence and with more accuracy and clarity from the constant directivity bi-radial horn design. And they do it effortlessly. In my listening room with my gear to my ears. The 4430s get the nod over other speakers that I've owned, that said I have not owned the high-end infinitys.
:yes: ding, ding! Thanks, as I read this thread I've been recalling the many the great posts from Zilch on this topic. Sadly we lost Zilch earlier this year.
As mentioned part of it is the Japanese love for 'anything' American-names etc are part of it. JBL is a well know and prestigious American company in audio.
Along with the sound- some of it obviously is the bling factor-nothing wrong with that-makes the world go around...
Speakers like much in audio-is a matter of taste. Never really listened extensivley to any of those massive JBL's so I coudn't tell you if I like them or not.
A few JBL I have realley liked-some not so much.-but the name no doubt garners respect in most quarters for many reasons-a good thing IMHO.
Along with the sound- some of it obviously is the bling factor-nothing wrong with that-makes the world go around...
Speakers like much in audio-is a matter of taste. Never really listened extensivley to any of those massive JBL's so I coudn't tell you if I like them or not.
A few JBL I have realley liked-some not so much.-but the name no doubt garners respect in most quarters for many reasons-a good thing IMHO.
Well I certianly will keep my eyes open for any big JBL's if I can find them reasonably. I would try them, and if I didn't like them, it seems like I wouldn't have any problem moving them. And surprisingly today when picking up a pair of speakers that I purchased from CL the guy had a pair of L100's hanging in his listening space (garage). He fired them up and I have to admit considering they were across from each other and not what I would consider the best of placement they did sound pretty good.
BMWCCA
Addicted Member
Actually, I believe the guy with the gray hair is Kenji, owner of Kenrick Sound where all those photos were taken. A bit older-looking than the pics on his site but I think it's him. I suspect the "red hair guy" is one of his employees (also an Asian) who can be seen in some of the video on their site: jbl43.com
My 4345s are "clones" built by the Rick in "Kenrick" and populated with OE drivers and custom cc crossovers by Dave of Katzass Audio. I actually passed on a pair of 1400 Arrays to purchase these 4345s and I'm completely satisfied and now fully prepared for my second half-century of JBL ownership.
Some other commentary on this thread from me would be that anyone who likes the L3 would LOVE the L5 or L7. And anyone who has purchased L5 or L7s recently will understand not all the best JBLs have been tainted by the "stigma" of JBL high prices.
Those "bass heavy" looking 4355s in those pics rise far above your critical analysis based on one look at a photo. Trust JBL; their response is nearly flat from 40Hz to 20kHz. A big woofer (mine are 18-inch) only serves to reproduce that part of any recording's spectrum a smaller speaker can't. The fact that such reproduction may be more realistic in reproducing a live performance is not a flaw. Rather, most speakers compared to them are likely to be the flawed ones. My 4345s can be sublime and subtle on a Bill Evans jazz album one moment and shake the house on a Transformers soundtrack the next. No subs necessary. And a Jennifer Warnes or Lizz Wright vocal sounds fantastic, too.
If you're worried about "delicate highs" in those big boxes, don't. Those are compression horn HF drivers with an additional UHF driver, all at ear-level. What you're looking at are 12- or 10-inch mid-range drivers, probably all bi-amped with active crossovers, and operating around the range of 300-1300Hz in most cases. The HF driver in those dual-woofer 4355s have 24-pound magnet structures with 4-inch voice coils! Those in my 4345s are wimps by comparison.
I've enjoyed the thread but it seems to gain energy every time the OP makes a comment based on conjecture, visual impression, or the opinions of others. I've sure if he had the chance to hear one of these iconic JBL 4-ways he'd realize why they command the prices they do, and why JBL should be considered among the best of the best. There are many fine speaker systems out there but few companies have the tradition of quality, longevity, and professional acceptance that JBL has enjoyed for over a half-century. That heritage alone is worth something. And if you strip one down and aren't moved by the design and quality of manufacture of even the smallest of components, you may be in the wrong hobby. :thmbsp:
Last edited:
I don't know about being in the wrong hobby, and being the OP I asked the question to be better educated by people who own, or have owned JBL speakers why they command such good prices. I certianly was not dishing JBL just questioning how a simple three way design without what I would think of as exotic inovations would be so good at reproducting music as good as some of the more non traditional variations of speakers by other manufactors. I have received some very good explainations by quite a number of AK members who have posted their opinions. And considering the number of post in such a short time it seems to have been a good subject to have approaced, isn't that what these forums are for? How else can a person make an educated choice on what speakers would be good to purchase if one doesn't ask these types of questions. as their are so many different types and brands of speakers and you can't get a chance to listen to every one of them, so I thought that by asking the question it would be helpful to everyone out there. I don't buy the premise that just because something sells for higher prices it is always the best out there.
Ken, this thread may be of interest to you . . . one of many threads on this topic.
myu701
Vintage futurist
Some really good things said here... but yeah, personal impression always has to be "taken with a grain of salt". Especially when dealing with vintage equipment. There's always a matter of conjecture if said speakers haven't been refreshed with new crossover components. JBL took a very meticulous scientific approach to the art of making speakers. And their success was a result of that. And also, isn't there the consideration of matching a set of speakers properly to equipment and purpose, in addition to proper placement and room acoustics?
In the end, nothing can really compete with first hand experience. Because speaker preference also has an element of subjectivity.
In the end, nothing can really compete with first hand experience. Because speaker preference also has an element of subjectivity.
TOM1040
Well-Known Member
Well put. By the way, I would love to hear your Infinities! I had a pair of RS8Kappas & did not realize the potential until I found a amp to drive them. They sounded great to me.
Yes I also have a pair of Kappa 8's and a pair of Kappa 9's, both very good speakers. I got my Kappa 8's for a steal at only 50 dollars for the pair. If I could find a real good set of JBL's for that price I would snag them and give them a try. I think it would take a pretty good pair of JBL's to match the sound of the Kappa 8's.
Ken, why would you want a comparison with JBL, when you said they are totally different in presentation to the Infinity's?
Although with all those speakers in the one room you must like it awfully loud, I actually think it's horses for courses and it depends on what you appreciate. One may not be better than the other but just different.
hwirt
Super Member
I mentioned earlier in this thread that a local dealer sold the Infinity line back in the 80's and 90's. This dealer handled almost the entire line and had the RS-1's set up in one of the listing rooms.
A friend of mine accompanied me on a number of visits to this dealer and ended up buying a set of Infinities, the model RS-4B's. The 4B's were really good sounding, especially when connected to a big power amp. They also looked great and were easy to integrate into a moderate sized living room. I found a few pictures of them on a Infinity tribute web sight. Here is what they looked like:
Here is a link to the tribute sight if anyone is interested, lots of great information on Infinity and many images. Enjoy
:
http://www.bobbyshred.com/infinity.html
A friend of mine accompanied me on a number of visits to this dealer and ended up buying a set of Infinities, the model RS-4B's. The 4B's were really good sounding, especially when connected to a big power amp. They also looked great and were easy to integrate into a moderate sized living room. I found a few pictures of them on a Infinity tribute web sight. Here is what they looked like:
Here is a link to the tribute sight if anyone is interested, lots of great information on Infinity and many images. Enjoy
:http://www.bobbyshred.com/infinity.html
At least you admitted that your opinion wasn't based on actual experience. As for "hardly any mid and hi drivers", well I don't know what to tell you. Many of the speakers in that collection of pics were 4-way designs. The 4350 and 4355 both have a 12" midbass and a 2" compression driver mid, with a tweeter on top. The 4344 and 4343 both have a 10" midbass, 1" compression driver, same tweeter as the larger monitors. My guess is that JBL added an extra woofer in the 4350/4355 to try to keep up with the midrange output, not because they wanted to overpower what midrange was there with extra bass.
You won't see them going cheap. A member here just sold a nice pair of 4350s for $14K. That's like these
I don't doubt that as I often search for JBL's on websites for sale, and as of yet have found a pair of the larger ones at a low price. That is part of why I asked the question, are they that good? I have been able to see what I consider good deals, and sometimes steals on other models of very good speakers, but I guess JBL's are so hot of sellers that you just can't find any for what I consider to be a good deal. That is pretty much the same thing with Mcintosh, yet evey once in a while I see a good deal on them, and even purchased a Mcintosh preamp that I use everyday that I really like.
What's "good"? By many accounts, some of the very sought after vintage cars are not very "good", but they command amazing prices. If you want a "good" car, a '62 Ferrari 250 GTO was a temperamental, semi-reliable, high-strung 2 seater. A '62 Dodge Dart was a much more reliable, easy to maintain, comfortable, and affordable car.
So which was the "better" car? Which one sells for a couple of orders of magnitude more money today? Find many '62 Ferrari 250 GTOs on Craigslist?
So which was the "better" car? Which one sells for a couple of orders of magnitude more money today? Find many '62 Ferrari 250 GTOs on Craigslist?
BMWCCA
Addicted Member
You drive a car and you listen to speakers. Should be an easy comparison . . . if it weren't fraught with conditions like how do you drive? Do you just want an appliance to get you to and from work? Do you hate direct feedback from steering and the road surface? Etc. Do you sometimes drive just for the enjoyment of the drive? Are you perhaps even a motorcyclist??
So, do you listen to music as background, or are you a deep listener? Would you prefer listening to music on an AM clock radio to not having any music at all? Or are you never satisfied with less-than-perfect recordings and would rather limit your music library to good recordings than dumb-down your system to hide the flaws?
No, I don't own a Ferrari, but I do prefer driving my old BMWs to any new transportation appliance. I love the responsiveness and the feedback. And I enjoy how my JBL 4345s open up the musical experience, too. I realize the veracity in the mantra "different horses for different courses", but even some draft horses are better than others.
I'm from St. Louis so I'm partial to Clydesdales! My Dad raised me on JBL, too.
So, do you listen to music as background, or are you a deep listener? Would you prefer listening to music on an AM clock radio to not having any music at all? Or are you never satisfied with less-than-perfect recordings and would rather limit your music library to good recordings than dumb-down your system to hide the flaws?
No, I don't own a Ferrari, but I do prefer driving my old BMWs to any new transportation appliance. I love the responsiveness and the feedback. And I enjoy how my JBL 4345s open up the musical experience, too. I realize the veracity in the mantra "different horses for different courses", but even some draft horses are better than others.
I'm from St. Louis so I'm partial to Clydesdales! My Dad raised me on JBL, too.