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Just ordered a "Red Ed" cart!

beatcomber said:
If so, isn't it odd that AT would market it as their own, since they are a manufacturer?
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Uhm, why? AT also offers turntables under their own brand, although they obviously don't produce these themselves. Or remember the Empire XX00 MkIIs, which were rebadged Ortofon VMSxx family models, maybe?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
Uhm, why? AT also offers turntables under their own brand, although they obviously don't produce these themselves. Or remember the Empire XX00 MkIIs, which were rebadged Ortofon VMSxx family models, maybe?
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Hmm, I suppose you're right.

One can look at it this way: Considering AT's reputation for quality, they wouldn't put their name on an inferior product, right? We shall see soon enough...
 
beatcomber said:
Ever since first learning about it, I've been very curious about the Ed Saunders "Red Ed" Audio-Technica ESCMG29.
http://www.edsaunders.com/reded.htm

Apparently made by Audio Technica for the past 30 years or so, and rebranded as Goldring Elan, Empire 105 & 205 LT, Sanyo MG-29, Kenwood V51, Fisher 55D, etc., it should be a fun, cheap cart. The stylus on the $13.95 version is conical, but with a smaller tip than usual (6 mil). There is also a more "expensive" ($28.95) version with elliptical stylus - but I couldn't resist ordering the cheap version just to see what $14 will buy.

I'm planning to put it on a Dual 1019. I'll let you all know what I think after I receive it.


rededcropped.jpg
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Hi, sounds like it may be a winner. Let me know what you think when you get it. I have been putting AT3600's on the tt's I repair. It sounds really good to me and is fairly priced.

Thanks,
John.:music::D
 
Hmm. the elliptical one seems nice. I'll keep it in mind for future need. (Hoep their international shipping cost is o.k.)

Why ojh why is there no 'Ortofon Ed' section oh his site btw? :)
 
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jleon92f said:
I have been putting AT3600's on the tt's I repair. It sounds really good to me and is fairly priced.
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Most articles I've seen on audio restoration and playback recommend a .7 mil tip as the smallest they would choose for older mono records (those intended for use with a 1 mil tip) and the best choice for a mixed collection of older and newer lp's. The .6 and .5 mil conicals are recommended just for modern stereo and newer mono releases.

I've found that I like the AT CN5625AL, very similar to the AT3600 except for having a .7 as opposed to .6 mil tip, better than the Goldring Elan for both my older mono records and for my growing collection of Dynagroove records, which included the controversial "pre-distortion" phase that was modeled on the behavior of a .7 mil tip.

In any event, cheap cartridges like the AT models and Goldring Elan (or Red Ed) have a lot more musical satisfaction to offer than many give them credit for. I've just finished listening to Ansermet's 1957 (I think) reading of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony on a London mono pressing (LL1633), and the CN5625AL on an LP12/Ittok through the AVA OmegaStar preamp's phono stage, Grado headphone amp, and old Koss Pro/4AA headphones did great justice to the sound and performance.
 
jrtrent said:
Most articles I've seen on audio restoration and playback recommend a .7 mil tip as the smallest they would choose for older mono records (those intended for use with a 1 mil tip) and the best choice for a mixed collection of older and newer lp's. The .6 and .5 mil conicals are recommended just for modern stereo and newer mono releases.

I've found that I like the AT CN5625AL, very similar to the AT3600 except for having a .7 as opposed to .6 mil tip, better than the Goldring Elan for both my older mono records and for my growing collection of Dynagroove records, which included the controversial "pre-distortion" phase that was modeled on the behavior of a .7 mil tip.

In any event, cheap cartridges like the AT models and Goldring Elan (or Red Ed) have a lot more musical satisfaction to offer than many give them credit for. I've just finished listening to Ansermet's 1957 (I think) reading of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony on a London mono pressing (LL1633), and the CN5625AL on an LP12/Ittok through the AVA OmegaStar preamp's phono stage, Grado headphone amp, and old Koss Pro/4AA headphones did great justice to the sound and performance.
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I just looked at the packaging for the carts I use. It says CN5625AL on it. So these are Not AT3600's? Also says 0.7 Mil Conical?

They sound great for the price regardless.

Thanks,
John.:music::D
 
jleon92f said:
It says CN5625AL on it. So these are Not AT3600's?
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I can't find the AT3600 on AT's website, but LPGear has it listed on theirs (maybe it's a gray-market model they bring in from some other country/distributor). There are minor differences in specs, including that the AT3600 uses a .6 mil stylus. Not sure what other differences there might be, but I heartily agree that the CN5625AL sounds great!

Edit: I did find the styli listed on AT's website. They were grouped together as being interchangeable:
ATN3600 (AT3600) .6
ATN3600L (AT3600L) .6
ATN5625AL (CN5625AL) .7

Also, here's the link to LP Gear's AT3600 information:
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/mer...e_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATC17&Category_Code=A3
 
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I just realized that the CN5625AL is the cart that came with the Audio Technica/Vacuum VP96 portable that I bought in Japan about 10 years ago! Coincidentally I just ordered a new stylus for it a few minutes ago! The one on my portable is slightly different because it clips into the headshell/tonearm, and doesn't have wings with screw holes.

Audio-Technica-CN-5625-AL.jpg


Audio-Technica-ATN-VP96-stylus-md.jpg


vp96b2.JPG
 
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You didn't say specifically where you saw AT listed as the mfr, but I'm assuming it's somewhere in Ed Saunders's material (although it isn't on the page you linked to in your first post). And not everything Ed Saunders states is necessarily accurate.
ESCMG-29 is the model number Ed Saunders created for the cartridge he sells. The "ESC" in front of the MG-29 is translated as follows:

E = Ed
S = Saunders
C = cartridge

You can search through AT's own material and you will not find this cartridge. Go to turntableneedles.com and type in MG-29 and bring up the stylus. If AT made it, certainly it would be listed, but it isn't. In fact, it's probably one of the few entry level carts that AT didn't make.
 
hakaplan said:
You didn't say specifically where you saw AT listed as the mfr, but I'm assuming it's somewhere in Ed Saunders's material (although it isn't on the page you linked to in your first post). And not everything Ed Saunders states is necessarily accurate.
ESCMG-29 is the model number Ed Saunders created for the cartridge he sells. The "ESC" in front of the MG-29 is translated as follows:

E = Ed
S = Saunders
C = cartridge

You can search through AT's own material and you will not find this cartridge. Go to turntableneedles.com and type in MG-29 and bring up the stylus. If AT made it, certainly it would be listed, but it isn't. In fact, it's probably one of the few entry level carts that AT didn't make.
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Thanks, Howard. I don't really know much for sure except that it was CHEAP!
 
Howard: I was puzzled about that reference to AT first as well, but then I found it: If you click on that review link above the Elan and RedEd pics, you'll land there: http://www.edsaunders.com/rededreview.htm

Could mean anything, though: Maybe AT actually distributes these carts for whatever reason - but it might just as well be that Mr. Saunders simply happens to have some empty AT boxes left, which he might re-use for the RedEds... Without a pic of that packaging it's hard to tell.

Well, and as for the actual manufacturer: Might indeed be Nagaoka, as they actually offered a couple of versions of these thingies - though from the looks of these needles I could just as well imagine that these thingies were originally disgned by Azden/Japan Piezo (probably because I'd rather expect metal tubing around the back end of the cantilever assembly, if it was an original Nagaoka design...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
I have emailed Audio Technica to see if they can shed any light on the actual manufacturer of this cartridge.

I will post any information I receive.

Doug
 
lini said:
Howard: I was puzzled about that reference to AT first as well, but then I found it: If you click on that review link above the Elan and RedEd pics, you'll land there: http://www.edsaunders.com/rededreview.htm

Could mean anything, though: Maybe AT actually distributes these carts for whatever reason - but it might just as well be that Mr. Saunders simply happens to have some empty AT boxes left, which he might re-use for the RedEds... Without a pic of that packaging it's hard to tell.

Well, and as for the actual manufacturer: Might indeed be Nagaoka, as they actually offered a couple of versions of these thingies - though from the looks of these needles I could just as well imagine that these thingies were originally disgned by Azden/Japan Piezo (probably because I'd rather expect metal tubing around the back end of the cantilever assembly, if it was an original Nagaoka design...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
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Manfred,

Trust me, this review was written by Ed Saunders. I have seen other so-called reviews of his products over the years that were just as ridiculously enthusiastic. Notice it doesn't state where the review appeared--that's because it didn't appear anywhere. And Ed Saunders worked side-by-side with AT like I worked side-by-side with the Pope. I'm sure he has a supplier where he gets quantity discounts on these carts, but it isn't AT. He knows he'll sell more of these carts if he claims they're made by AT and he's counting on the fact that people will take him at his word and not check. He made up that model number and I'll lay bets that when Doug G. asks AT, their response will be "No, we don't make that cartridge" and "Ed who?"

I agree with you that it could very well be Nagaoka or Japan Piezo.
 
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I always had a nagging feeling the Red Ed was not an AT cartridge. It just is not right looking.

January 3, 2006, a reference is posted at Epinions.com by their hot reviewer, Sam-Pro.

“Audio-Technica's ESCMG29 "Red Ed" Phono Cartridge...Ed Saunders Just Eliminated Your Last Excuse!”.
http://www99.epinions.com/content_215623569028

Later, another review at Audiogon.com.

“Audio-Technica USA AT ESCMG29 Cartridge”, by Petsound.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ranlg&1141331190&openusid&zzViridian&4&5


Two references were enough to start the legend. For years the mistake has not been corrected. It has been repeated so often that the myth became true.

I also think Nagaoka cartridge.
 
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TK: Honestly, I had no idea the RedEds were supposed to be somehow connected with AT before this very thread. Otherwise I'd have expressed my doubt about AT being the manufacturer way earlier... Same might go for Howard, I'd think, 'cause he also seemed quite surprised. So that "legend" doesn't appear to have been very widespread anyway...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Heh heh, I THOUGHT that there seemed something fishy about that review, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. I think you're right about ol' Ed writing it!

Anyhoo, my Red Ed arrived today and I put it on my Dual 1019. I just got through spending several hours listening to it, and I must say, I AM impressed.

When I placed my order last week I was cautiously optimistic but prepared to be underwhelmed by a generic $14 cart with conical tip. But the good news is it sounds GOOD! There's really nothing bad I can say about it... it's at least as good as any $50 cart I've ever heard, and better than many. Soundstage was decent and it doesn't sound mushy or dull. I heard no obvious mistracking, even on shrill trumpets.

It's a particularly good match for the Dual. I've tried using a Shure M91ED and M44-7 on the 1019, but found the output too hot for the Dual - the bass was just too thunderous and bloated on the 1019, especially with my vintage tube amp, although I like those carts just fine with other tables. I've also tried using a Stanton 500AL-II and it sounded very dull. A Grado Gold1 was pretty good, but not as clear and transparent as when it was on the Technics; IMO it was just too good for the Dual.

But the Red Ed is just right for the 1019. The highs are crisp without being strident, and the bass is tight and punchy without the thunderous bloat that the 1019 is capable of producing with the wrong cart.

We'll see how it sounds in a few weeks, after it breaks in. But so far, so good...
 
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