JVC QL-Y5F Turntable electro-dynamic servo tonearm?

[zeplin43]

JVC has arrived and in excelent condition.Easy to set up and works with precision.

Setup JVC And DENON side by side and ready to rumble

Well i set up the tt changed the Shure M95 ej stylus from Denon to JVC because its the one i have been using,and i am accustomed to the sound.

The JVC has made the Shure M95 sparkle.There is a huge improvement in overall sound clarity,Highend detail, and the soundstage is phenomenal and higher output.
I asked myself why is it possible to hear such a big improvement with the same cartridge?
Can it be?
The TT connecting cables on the JVC has been changed to a modern high quality ones? Denon has the original cables
Better arm cartridge match?
Better Impedance match?
Is it the Turntable?
Interesting hearing your opinions because now i need to find out what is causing this huge difference in Cart Performance.
Keep them spinning!.................Records:thmbsp:

 

[dlaloum]

Another interesting tweak for these...

the thread on the counterweight appears to be the same as that on technics arms...

gmku,
any chance you can check if your JVC & 1200 counterweights do indeed have the same thread? I would MUCH appreciate it. Just purchased a (beautiful to me) JVC QL-Y3F minus the counterweight. None available for purchase anywhere online! (Or at least not that I can find.) However, after numerous visual comparisons of pictures available online (and examination of manuals at Vinyl Engine), I think (hope) the QL-Y3F & QL-Y5F have the SAME counterweights. So, if your 1200 & QL-Y5F counterweights are interchangeable (regardless of whether they are the same weight or not), then obviously I could buy a 1200 counterweight online for my QL-Y3F. Thanks!

Sorry I missed you posting.... I am using what I believe to be several different 1200 counterweights on my QL-Y5F...

They are working well, and with some cartridge/headshell combinations, are the only way that I can balance the arm. (usually lighter combos)

bye for now

David

 

[zeplin43]

Sorry I missed you posting.... I am using what I believe to be several different 1200 counterweights on my QL-Y5F...

They are working well, and with some cartridge/headshell combinations, are the only way that I can balance the arm. (usually lighter combos)

bye for now

David

Yes i confirm that 1210 MkII CW fits perfectly on the JVC and Vice versa.

 

[BrocLuno]

The difference may be a in the magneto loaded arm? The JVC brings a whole new dynamic to tracking compared to a passive mass only system. I would expect it to be better than a passive arm. To reproduce that level of sophistication in todays world would be quite costly - way above Rega and other passive arm systems.

 

[dlaloum]

Not sure what the Denon table is, but JVC and Denon apparently collaborated on the electronically damped arms.

It may in fact be JVC that developed these for Denon...

So before assuming that it is the damping - it might be worth checking whether the Denon also has a damped arm?

Also the JVC's (not sure about the Denons) were also available in versions using the JVC Oil damped arm... with apparently similar performance.

I agree that the damping may be the cause of the improvement. - This is easily tested - turn the damping dial down to Zero and have a listen. If the improvement disappears... it's the damping if not - look elsewhere....

Dial-a-Damping is very convenient!

bye for now

David

 

[zeplin43]

So the difference in a new high quality cable and jacks to the Denon´s 40 years old cable has nothing to do with this increase in quality of sound?

 

[zeplin43]

So the difference in a new high quality cable and jacks to the Denon´s 40 years old cable has nothing to do with this increase in quality of sound?

Well i set damping to Zero and the sound does loose some focus and is more splashy,even surface noise is more noticeble,so damping is doing its job.
How do the better cable affect the sound?

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Love the motor unit a lot, the arm is good but in my opinion too complex and something which could render it a paperweight if failure occurred. Plinth too resonant (some Denons are also notorious for this). When all works well, a nice machine I love.

 

[zeplin43]

Im sorry to bring up this subject again but I am overwhelmed with this JVC TT
Comparing the sound of the JVC with all other TT i have.
The sound is more profound( has more pressure) more presence and is nearer to me as well as i can also hear the music much better even with lower volume,
Example:Similar to hearing music with headfones.

Can it be something to do with speaker DB efficiency?
the previous owner did change the connecting cable and put gold platted jacks
Ive have also read about how rewiring of TT tonearms and cable has a huge impact in sound.
Can you guys explain what changes occur when you rewire a TT with good quality wire and cables.
I am thinking of changing cables on the Denon DP 57L is it worth the trouble?can i expect similar results on the Denon?


Keep them lps spinning!!!

 

[dlaloum]

Cables cables cables....

The main differences in TT cable are:

1) Capacitance
2) Shielding


1) CAPACITANCE
If you are using a normal MM / MI cartridge (ie not an MC or a Grado) the frequency response behaviour of your cartridge is hugely sensitive to capacitance.
In fact one of the ways of tuning cartridge performance is capacitive loading, and manufacturers specify at what capacitance they expect their cartridge to be used.
In your system the total capacitance is usually made of of tonearm cable capacitance, Turntable Interconnect capacitance, and Phono Stage load capacitance. Most Phono stages have a built in 220/250pf capacitance.

Ideally your total capacitance outside of the phono stage should be under 100pf. Some multimeters have capacitance measurement function which can help with working through this, if not, then replace the TT I'C's (captive or seperate!) with high quality video cable. Video cables tend to be the most economical low capacitance cables.
Capacitance is measured if pF per meter - ie the longer the cable, the higher the capacitance. So make sure the cable is as short as possible. The custom cable on my JVC QLY5F is 60cm, and uses BlueJeans LC1 cable - the total capacitance of the standard built in tonearm cable, plus the captive interconnect adds up to 60pf.
If I need to add capacitance to tune for a specific cartridge, I can do so with either loading plugs,or an additional length of cable (extension) - but you cannot "delete" capacitance without removing a piece of cable. (mind you there are tricks - see the VinylEngine "near zero capacitance" thread)

2) Shielding
Phono signals are very low level - and then get amplified a lot.
So even a little interference sneaking in, can then get amplified into a substantial problem.

Ideal phono cables should be well shielded.
The type and level of noise "received" (it acts like a radio antenna!) by the cable will vary depending on what is nearby in terms of other equipment, as well as things like how close you are to nearby radio stations, etc...
It can come across as low level hash, which confuses detail in the sound...

bye for now

David

 

[directdriver]

zeplin43: "I'm sorry to bring up this subject again but I am overwhelmed with this JVC TT. Comparing the sound of the JVC with all other TT i have. The sound is more profound( has more pressure) more presence and is nearer to me as well as i can also hear the music much better even with lower volume..."

No need to apologize for the sound of the JVC. I know what you're talking about. Many people contribute the sound of a turntable to everything but the motor. The JVC uses a very nice sounding coreless motor (model M938Q) that has extremely low cogging, which is why its sound is silky smooth. I have own many JVC turntables, at least a dozen, and most later models use a variant of this coreless motor, including the top of line QL-Y7. I have owned over 50 direct drive turntables and the ones I am keeping are the ones using coreless motor.

The downside of coreless motor is lower torque so the sound is not as aggressive or forward but I much rather take the smoothness, fluidity, and relax quality. Yes, I personally prefer most JVC turntables over any Technics models, including the SP10Mk2, which I'd owned over 6 units before.

The beauty of coreless motor is its simplicity: a magnet over a series of coils underneath that propel the platter. It's literally magnetic drive. I am not saying a turntable using a coreless motor automatically makes good sounding turntable. But it is a good start since it's the only MOVING part in a dd turntable, so you better get good quality to begin with. It is no surprise the majority of Japanese manufacturers had shifted to using coreless motors in the late 70's until the demise in the 80's with the advent of CD. Much attention has been paid to all other aspects of a turntable, maybe it's time to pay attention to the motor. After all, a DD motor consists of the bearing, the platter, the rotor, and the stator. Of course, it makes a difference in sound!

---------------------------------------------------------

Examples of turntable coreless motor.

Sony PS-X9

Kenwood L-07D

Pioneer PL-50L II

Sansui XR-Q7

Sony PS-X6 , BSL motor

Kenwood KD-770D

Brinkmann Bardo stator part

Brinkmann Bardo rotor part

.

 

[zeplin43]

Well directdriver thks for the nice explanation on the motors these TT use.

Well its now time for an update on the use of carts and how they match this turntable.

As you know i was thrilled with the Shure M95 cart and EJ stylus but its been in use from the beginning of the year 1st on the Denon DP 57 L and then moved to the JVC QL-Y5F started to give signs of wear so it was time to move on (i do plan to get the Ed Sanders stylus for the shure).

So looking at my cart selection i have a Philips GP 400 and a GP III (NOS)stylus that from research i beleive to be a conical stylus and that i had only played briefly to see if it worked.
Here links with the specks on VE for both cart and stylus.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/philips/super-m.shtml ---for cart
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/philips/super-m-mark-iii.shtml ---for stylus.

So after +- 40 hours i can say that i have found another keeper.

Nice solid bass plays every note with class but not as deep as the Shure.
Midrange is fantastic Vocals and guitars are outstanding,no dull recordings with this cart.
Highs are precise and very tuned not (splashy like the M97xe) lots of detail.
Soundstage is huge and lots of space for all instruments one of the best ive heard up to now.
Just a little more surface noise is preceptable in relation to the Shure ej stylus.

I was a little unsure of what to expect when i first thought of mounting this cart with a conical stylus but now that i heard it on numerous lps i am delighted with its performance.
I dont know why but i keep thinking of the Denon Dl 103(whitch ive never heard) and the reviews and debates ive read about conical and elliptical stylus.
I hope some of you can participate with some more inf on this situation.

Keep them spinning guys!!!!!

 

[zeplin43]

Anyone ever heard the Philips GP 400? tell us how this cart matches other TT.
Its an excelent match to the JVC QL Y5F

 

[dosmalo]

Sorry. I don't like the servo tonearms. Way too much stuff to go wrong and when it did, I don't think I'd have a clue where to start.

 

[BrocLuno]

Run them until the break, then worry

 

[jmchrislip]

Another one i caught floating around for sale and i pulled the trigger.sorry guys but ive been hit by the TT fever (3)

What do you guys think of this TT

How will the JVC QL-Y5F stand up to the Denon DP 57L - Kenwood KD 990 - JVC QL F6
They all have a sme type headshell that i like easy to change Headshell and carts.I do have a straight tonearm for the Denon DP 57L

Any tips on how to Set Up and operate this electro-dynamic servo tonearm

This was made by Denon.

 

[totem]

jmchrislip
This was made by Denon.

jm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean it looks like a Denon
then yes they look similar.
In actuality JVC / Victor made the drives for others including some Denon
models.
As far as I know Denon did not make any JVC/Victor TT,s.

 

[dlaloum]

Actually from my reading, Denon contracted a bunch of stuff to JVC at the time... it is JVC that designed the servo arms for Denon...

Denon just marketed them better in the west.

Complete manuals are available at VinylEngine in the library (you need to be a member - so register!)

It is just about the easiest table to use - while still having the flexibility of an SME headshell.

To set up arm:
1) Turn power off
2) balance arm so it floats and is horizontal when floating
3) Put arm back on its stand & turn power back on
4) Turn VTF to the desired tracking force
5) Set q-damping to same as VTF (standard starting point ... you increase or decrease from there as desired)

Play records.

Other notes:

the stylus to washer distance in the headshell (overhang) is a relatively short 48mm

The counterweight inner diameter is the same as a Technics SL-1200 series
For high compliance cartridges, use an ultra low weight headshell (eg: ADC magnesium) and if necessary a technics counterweight (roughly 90g, the JVC original one is 110g)
Using this process you can drop the effective mass substantially.
You can have a small collection of CW's - use the lightest one which will ensure a position close to the pivot point - a heavier weight close to the pivot point provides lower effective mass (inertia) than a ligher one further from the pivot point.

The Plinth is the weak point of the table - it tends to resonate.
Solutions:
Buy around 3.5kg of plasticine (modelling clay) put as much as you can inside the plinth. To provide a compressed/damped connection between the top of the plinth and the bottom baseplate use toilet roll holders (the inside cardboard core) cut to the right length to just fit between top and baseboard, slightly overfill them with plasticine, position them inside between plinth and baseboard, so when baseboard is screwed back on it slightly compresses these. (immobilise them with more plasticine around the rolls within the plinth)
Check the feet - make sure the rubber still is pliable and hasn't hardened or cracked - you may need to remove/replace the feet - some of the users of the QLY5 have used Herbies Tenderfeet, others have fitted cones, but sit the entire table on a rubber/cork platform, which in turn is sitting on ball bearing feet.

With the right plinth treatment and platform this table can compete with some very top notch current tables (circa $2000 ...)

My mods are documented here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=89320.20

bye for now

David

 

[powerlight]

What a great thread. Lots of great info here guys. Thanks. :thmbsp:

I have a QL-Y5F that has brought me intermittent joy and tears. I agree this IS a behemoth of a table. All listening considerations aside this is also a downright purdy TT. I love the look of it.

I am wondering if my turntable is missing a screw at the back side of the base of the tonearm. I have included a photo of the empty threaded hole. Can you tell me if your table has a screw there?
Thanks!
DM

Mine has the same empty threaded hole. Let's both hope it's supposed to be there!

 

[bobrown14]

I imported mine via fleabay UK...

Technically a nice table - the servo arm works as advertised!

Weakness is that the plinth tends to act like a reverberation chamber especially the bottom plywood cover.

Concensus is to fill the body with as much plasticine as will fit in whatever corners you can find.
This does two things:

1) Add mass
2) Plasticine damps vibrations between 300 and 3000Hz very effectively

Another trick is to place some weights on top of the plinth - reduces more of the resonance

The bottom base can be damped with spray on damping compounds, some people have had good results with a fifth foot placed in the middle.
I put pasticine inside toilet roll holders(cardboard tubes) so that it is wedged and constrained between the top and bottom plates of the plinth - providing a sort of constrained layer effect and helping to damp vibrations from both sides.

Look for the postings on this beasty - concensus is that with a little time (and very little money) these can be made to compete very successfully with new TT's of circa $2000.

Another place with lots of contributors of the JVC persuasion is AudioCircles

bye for now

David

Have you tried isolating the turntable from the shelf or whatever it sits on? What do you have your TT sitting on? Sometimes and this is a general statement, isolation will quiet down the reverb you talk about.

Cheers,

Bob