Koetsu Third Party Rebuild

[markd51]

Does your car have to go back to the factory for any work, and be worked on only by the person(s) who built it originally?

I'm not sure why you think that is the only way it can be done. There are many knowledgeable people around the world who rebuild cartridges. They have the skills, experience and materials to perform the job.

jblnut

As Perter Lederman of Soundsmith once commented about, was the visual examination, and conformation that even many very expensive Cartridges didn't even have their Stylus mounted properly on the Cantilever.

It takes a trained experienced eye, and specialized equipment to confirm, something no average vinylphile possesses.

Reckon in those scenarios, all the hard work placed into Geometric Cartridge Alignment, and everything else in the Vinyl Playback system is sort of for naught.

 

[cafe latte]

I've used Soundsmith before for a rebuild on a Sumiko Celebration Pearwood. They did an excellent job and it sounds great. I think, when it does come time to do my Koetsu Urushi vermillion, I would probably send it to Soundsmith first for an evaluation and go from there.
I was very concerned about the suspension of my Celebration since the cart was prolly 20 yrs old. After evaluation he said the suspension was perfectly good and didn't need anything other than a new cantilever and stylus.

Age is generally not the barometer of a cartridge, hours of use is. If you can estimate reasonably how many hours you have on it, it may indicate the cart is suspect. Generally something around 1500 hours is where things start to become an issue with most good MCs. Some will go more like 2000 hours.

No cart goes for 2000 hours this is simply not true.
Chris

 

[vinyldavid]

I just shipped (today!) a Lyra Kleos, Stanton 881s, Denon DL-305 and DL-301 to Joseph Long, aka cartridge_retipping5 aka groovetickler on Instagram.

I've been talking with him for a few months and following his daily posts on Instagram about his adventures with cartridge retipping. I have a VAS-rebuilt (not by me) DL-103 with an elliptical, and the work looks good, but i elected to give my business to Mr. Long. I'll report back with his prices, turnaround time, and the results.

 

[cafe latte]

I just shipped (today!) a Lyra Kleos, Stanton 881s, Denon DL-305 and DL-301 to Joseph Long, aka cartridge_retipping5 aka groovetickler on Instagram.

I've been talking with him for a few months and following his daily posts on Instagram about his adventures with cartridge retipping. I have a VAS-rebuilt (not by me) DL-103 with an elliptical, and the work looks good, but i elected to give my business to Mr. Long. I'll report back with his prices, turnaround time, and the results.

Joseph does good work, he approaches his work in the same way I do ie result must be perfect.
Chris

 

[Bob in WI]

Dont forget Needsteine , Joseph Long on eBay AKA Cartridge_Retipper_5 .

Athanasios

Yes - I have a Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI he did.
I couldn't be more pleased & he was a prolific contributor on AK at one time.
I know Soundsmith is also highly valued but I have no personal experience & I like to keep my cash within the AK family when feasible.

 

[Redd House]

I have personal experience with both Chris and Joseph and highly recommend either of them. They're both faster and cheaper than those other guys, by quite a bit I might add.

 

[BA3000]

UPDATE: I ended up driving my Koetsu cartridge up to VAS Audio for Ray to take a look at it and he told me it should just need a thorough cleaning and a retipping because the stylus was worn. The tension on the cantilever was still in pretty good shape as well. So I’m relieved a rebuild is not in order. And I’m much more comfortable having a third party just replacing the diamond and nothing else (even though I’m extremely confident Ray and Steve are very talented, plus super nice guys).

So now it should be a month or so until I get it back. In the meantime, I decided to buy a cheaper cartridge for the interim and figured it would be good to have a backup option and something to compare to my Koetsu. I went with the Ortofon 2M Bronze. I wanted a MM cartridge for their higher output level because I don’t have any kind of preamp at the moment. (My turntable is connected straight to my Marantz 2275. Through discussions on another AK thread that I started, it’s been determined that I need an amp or transformer to accommodate my MC Koetsu, which I’ve committed to getting). Excited to hear what a brand new, albeit lesser, cartridge sounds like, I hooked up the 2M Bronze this evening and sure enough, the sound was clearer and I didn’t have to turn the volume way up to hear the music, but my god THERE IS A VERY LOUD AND IRRITATING BUZZ/HUM COMING FROM THE SPEAKERS. This noise was not present when the Koetsu was hooked up, unless the volume was cranked all the way up. But this noise is heard at literally the lowest possible volume, even when my turntable isn’t spinning. To be clear, it’s not something that can be ignored. It makes the music unlistenable and would give me a headache if I heard it for too long. I’ve triple checked the color-coded wires from the tonearm and they are hooked up correctly. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do. Can someone please help?

 

[cafe latte]

UPDATE: I ended up driving my Koetsu cartridge up to VAS Audio for Ray to take a look at it and he told me it should just need a thorough cleaning and a retipping because the stylus was worn. The tension on the cantilever was still in pretty good shape as well. So I’m relieved a rebuild is not in order. And I’m much more comfortable having a third party just replacing the diamond and nothing else (even though I’m extremely confident Ray and Steve are very talented, plus super nice guys).

So now it should be a month or so until I get it back. In the meantime, I decided to buy a cheaper cartridge for the interim and figured it would be good to have a backup option and something to compare to my Koetsu. I went with the Ortofon 2M Bronze. I wanted a MM cartridge for their higher output level because I don’t have any kind of preamp at the moment. (My turntable is connected straight to my Marantz 2275. Through discussions on another AK thread that I started, it’s been determined that I need an amp or transformer to accommodate my MC Koetsu, which I’ve committed to getting). Excited to hear what a brand new, albeit lesser, cartridge sounds like, I hooked up the 2M Bronze this evening and sure enough, the sound was clearer and I didn’t have to turn the volume way up to hear the music, but my god THERE IS A VERY LOUD AND IRRITATING BUZZ/HUM COMING FROM THE SPEAKERS. This noise was not present when the Koetsu was hooked up, unless the volume was cranked all the way up. But this noise is heard at literally the lowest possible volume, even when my turntable isn’t spinning. To be clear, it’s not something that can be ignored. It makes the music unlistenable and would give me a headache if I heard it for too long. I’ve triple checked the color-coded wires from the tonearm and they are hooked up correctly. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do. Can someone please help?

Just make sure you are getting a DIAMOND ONLY retip not a cantilever transplant as this will be a big downgrade on your cart to get the cut and shunt retip. Sometimes this is desirable but not in your case. Some are not able to do just diamond and they talk people into cantilever transplants when they are not needed or desirable. Dont know what Vas audio do just stop them if they are going to cut the cantilever.
Chris

 

[BA3000]

Just make sure you are getting a DIAMOND ONLY retip not a cantilever transplant as this will be a big downgrade on your cart. Some are not able to do just diamond and they talk people into cantilever transplants when they are not needed or desirable. Dont know what Vas audio do just stop them if they are going to cut the cantilever.
Chris

thanks for the advice. I share your concern. It’s just a diamond replacement. Cantilever won’t be cut.

 

[cafe latte]

thanks for the advice. I share your concern. It’s just a diamond replacement. Cantilever won’t be cut.

Good. There are a number of retippers that are not able to retip just diamond and they talk customers into the cantilever replacement which is fine if original cantilever is damaged or aluminium, but if cantilever is boron or high quality then the cut and shunt is a really really bad plan.
Hope your cart is singing again soon.
Chris

 

[bimasta]

@cafe latte A complete stylus+cantilever system is easier to install than diamond-only... hence retippers prefer it.

But complete boron+stylus systems are available now, and with a wide range of stylus profiles to choose from.

This was not the case a few years ago when I wanted a new tip on a classic Koetsu Rosewood Longbody — my boron cantilever was perfect, but everyone wanted to replace it. The cost of a diamond-only attached to the original boron was prohibitive.

But now that new boron cantilevers are available, should I still stick with my old original Koetsu boron? Or is "boron boron", no diff?

 

[cafe latte]

@cafe latte A complete stylus+cantilever system is easier to install than diamond-only... hence retippers prefer it.

But complete boron+stylus systems are available now, and with a wide range of stylus profiles to choose from.

This was not the case a few years ago when I wanted a new tip on a classic Koetsu Rosewood Longbody — my boron cantilever was perfect, but everyone wanted to replace it. The cost of a diamond-only attached to the original boron was prohibitive.

But now that new boron cantilevers are available, should I still stick with my old original Koetsu boron? Or is "boron boron", no diff?

I retip as people know so my 2c. If original cantilever is boron getting it out of the cup is hard as glue is inside the cup. If you are lucky removing the external glue releases the old cantilever. Often it is still stuck fast. With aluminium it is a tube so the old cantilever can be collapsed and cut so the cup is clear for a new installation. If we want to retip a boron (solid cantilever) then if we cant remove it from cup then options are to slide a sleeve over the cup (more mass) and fit a cantilever inside that sleeve. This is a last resort for us, but retippers who are not able to fit just diamonds advise this which is not correct.
Cost to do just diamond is no more than cantilever from those who know what they are doing.
Chris

 

[BillWojo]

Steve at VAS has done just the stylus for me as well. It's nice having someone close enough to stop by and drop it off, discuss options with.

BillWojo

 

[markd51]

UPDATE: I ended up driving my Koetsu cartridge up to VAS Audio for Ray to take a look at it and he told me it should just need a thorough cleaning and a retipping because the stylus was worn. The tension on the cantilever was still in pretty good shape as well. So I’m relieved a rebuild is not in order. And I’m much more comfortable having a third party just replacing the diamond and nothing else (even though I’m extremely confident Ray and Steve are very talented, plus super nice guys).

So now it should be a month or so until I get it back. In the meantime, I decided to buy a cheaper cartridge for the interim and figured it would be good to have a backup option and something to compare to my Koetsu. I went with the Ortofon 2M Bronze. I wanted a MM cartridge for their higher output level because I don’t have any kind of preamp at the moment. (My turntable is connected straight to my Marantz 2275. Through discussions on another AK thread that I started, it’s been determined that I need an amp or transformer to accommodate my MC Koetsu, which I’ve committed to getting). Excited to hear what a brand new, albeit lesser, cartridge sounds like, I hooked up the 2M Bronze this evening and sure enough, the sound was clearer and I didn’t have to turn the volume way up to hear the music, but my god THERE IS A VERY LOUD AND IRRITATING BUZZ/HUM COMING FROM THE SPEAKERS. This noise was not present when the Koetsu was hooked up, unless the volume was cranked all the way up. But this noise is heard at literally the lowest possible volume, even when my turntable isn’t spinning. To be clear, it’s not something that can be ignored. It makes the music unlistenable and would give me a headache if I heard it for too long. I’ve triple checked the color-coded wires from the tonearm and they are hooked up correctly. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do. Can someone please help?

OK, I'll ask, what else do you have hooked to the Receiver? A CD Player, or Tape Deck perhaps? Any such issues exist when playing them?

Unplug the Turntable from the Receiver, now what? The same, or the noise is gone?

The noise might've likely been there all along, just with the lower output-voltage from the Koetsu, you weren't hearing it as easily?

Could be the Phono Cable? Common, that regular Interconnects are a poor choice for a Phono Cable, poor sheilding, too long in length, and not adequate for handling the low voltage signals. Most good phono cables are 1m-1.5m at most for good reason. Signal degradation.

Also, there will be a grounding wire with a Phono Cable.

You'll have to work your way backwards.

 

[BA3000]

OK, I'll ask, what else do you have hooked to the Receiver? A CD Player, or Tape Deck perhaps? Any such issues exist when playing them?

Unplug the Turntable from the Receiver, now what? The same, or the noise is gone?

The noise might've likely been there all along, just with the lower output-voltage from the Koetsu, you weren't hearing it as easily?

Could be the Phono Cable? Common, that regular Interconnects are a poor choice for a Phono Cable, poor sheilding, too long in length, and not adequate for handling the low voltage signals. Most good phono cables are 1m-1.5m at most for good reason. Signal degradation.

Also, there will be a grounding wire with a Phono Cable.

You'll have to work your way backwards.

Thanks a lot for giving me these diagnostic questions. When I get home from work this evening I’ll go through then and report back.

 

[markd51]

Thanks a lot for giving me these diagnostic questions. When I get home from work this evening I’ll go through then and report back.

Headshell Leads can be a source if there's one that's bad. If you don't have a dedicated Phono Cable on hand, but other cables you could try, that might be one experiment to try. Sometimes just moving a cable around while connected can show a shortcoming, perhaps interaction with other cables, or cords?

 

[RickB]

Nowhere in this thread does the OP state what turntable he has, BA3000, are you using a turntable that might have an AC motor and the new, high output cartridge is picking up the noise?

 

[BA3000]

Nowhere in this thread does the OP state what turntable he has, BA3000, are you using a turntable that might have an AC motor and the new, high output cartridge is picking up the noise?

VPI HW-19, Syrinx PU 3 tonearm

 

[trinhsman]

SoundSmith. Don't be in a hurry, but you will get a great rebuild. IMHO

 

[markd51]

VPI HW-19, Syrinx PU 3 tonearm

As I understand it doing a quick search, the Syrinx PU3 Arm has a hardwired Phono Cable, so no changing that without modifications. I wouldn't now suspect that being the source of Hum-Noise provided it is intact.

And as for the VPI HW-19, I have one, and while one might notice some very low level motor hum-noise, it should not be to the point of being claimed an issue that needs immediate attention, and addressing.

Again, inspection, and process of elimination is about all I can suggest.