Leben. Thinking something drastic here.

[writethis]

John, Ray, and Sam(and others,) Charlie at St. Louis Stereo has Saturday, Nov. 18th, or Saturday, Dec. 3rd available for a listening session with the Harbeth Compact 7s and the Leben 600 integrated if you are interested.

Dave, I'll have to see whether I can swing whichever date you guys end up with. I really NEED to hear the Harbeth C7s, and it'd be great to meet a few AK people as well.

Hope to make it work. Either way, very cool of you to set this up.

 

[JohnVF]

I'm going to have to check my work calendar as the day goes on...from now until mid-December is incredibly crazy here but I may have one of those weekends free. I appreciate you checking on this. My desire to hear the Leben coincides with inheriting a new client at work that wants a year's worth of work in the span of two months and my weekends and nights have taken a severe beating.

A preamp that I have long lusted after (Sonic Frontiers) just popped up at my local store and I had no desire to trade for it. So I think the Leben thing is real...its killed off the desire for other stuff except for....

An Atma-sphere OTL amp. That's what I've come down to. The Leben, or an Atmas-sphere OTL amp. The reason being, the Atma-sphere would be perfect for my Quad ESLs. I'm not rushing this, though. I may start moving some gear tomorrow...I've taken the day off after 14 days straight work to gather some unused gear together.

I've been listening to the Levinson amp all morning. The only certainty is that this thing isn't going anywhere. When it warms up, its the best SS amp I've heard.

 

[prisoners]

Let me throw this out there: I have an Onix SP-3 that I bought from another AKer locally. It's fantastic and I love how it sounds. I was using it in my bedroom with a Peachtree iDac, but have since moved the DAC to my main system and I'm now using a Peachtree Decco2 in the bedroom. While very nice it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Onix...but it has a remote, works well with Pandora, and I can fall asleep without worrying about burning out the tubes. The Onix isn't going to replace my Accuphase power amp in the main rig...so it sits unused. I know it's not in the same league as the Leben or your separates, but if simplification and classic looks without giving up great sound is what you are trying to do it might fit the bill. You are welcome to take it to your place and listen for as long as you need. I just had it out two days ago and re-biased the power tubes and tommorrow I'm going to put in in the main room just to compare it with the Cary/Accuphase chain. If it performs as well as they do I'm going to seriously question why I spent so much on them.

 

[JohnVF]

Let me throw this out there: I have an Onix SP-3 that I bought from another AKer locally. It's fantastic and I love how it sounds. I was using it in my bedroom with a Peachtree iDac, but have since moved the DAC to my main system and I'm now using a Peachtree Decco2 in the bedroom. While very nice it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Onix...but it has a remote, works well with Pandora, and I can fall asleep without worrying about burning out the tubes. The Onix isn't going to replace my Accuphase power amp in the main rig...so it sits unused. I know it's not in the same league as the Leben or your separates, but if simplification and classic looks without giving up great sound is what you are trying to do it might fit the bill. You are welcome to take it to your place and listen for as long as you need. I just had it out two days ago and re-biased the power tubes and tommorrow I'm going to put in in the main room just to compare it with the Cary/Accuphase chain. If it performs as well as they do I'm going to seriously question why I spent so much on them.

This got me thinking, and I seriously appreciate the offer. I really like my tube system. Well, its really a tube power amp and passive line stage. And if I stacked the amp on the McCormack linestage, I'd have basically a simple setup, that sounds really good..pretty much as good as my high end solid state system. The thing is, I really want the looks of the Leben. I'd normally give up aesthetic stuff for sound...but it seems with the Leben, I can get both. It seems that lot of people have given up high dollar, high performance, complicated separates for one. So its not just a case of simplification, but rather one of simplification, a performance that I'm happier with, and looks that blend in with my apartment. My apartment is all '50s and '60s mid century. The Leben would fit right in. Not that the Dynaco doesn't, but the Leben would add to it.

Which is all to say...its as much illogical as logical, and I don't think anything else is going to scratch this itch unfortunately for my wallet. My Fisher x202 is a fantastic amp, though..it is almost capable of doing what I want but it doesn't sound as good as my separates, and I want something that beats them.

I remember when the integrated was up in Bartertown, or one just like it. I was seriously tempted at the time as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it could hold its own...now put it in a wood case...

 

[RayW]

And if I stacked the amp on the McCormack linestage,

There ya go. A little duct tape and you've got an integrated amp.

it is almost capable of doing what I want but it doesn't sound as good as my separates, and I want something that beats them.

Now for the $64,000 question...what if it doesn't?

 

[JohnVF]

Now for the $64,000 question...what if it doesn't?

That's why I want to audition it first, with Harbeth speakers. If it doesn't beat them or sound different enough, I really don't feel like spending $5k to get a nice looking box. I have enough experience with a couple of good EL-34 amps on these speakers to think that it will probably sound really nice.

I've reached a point where my room is the limiting factor anyway..I'm only going to get so far. A sub or subs would probably change the sound more, but it wouldn't eliminate the pile o' gear.

 

[prisoners]

Fair enough, and I get it...no one ever said this hobby is logical. The offer stands though, and despite never meeting in person this forum goes a long way in determining a member's reputation. If nothing else your quest has made me look again at what I'm looking for in a system as well.

 

[JohnVF]

This photo says a lot about where my preferences are going. I just took it...guess which one is on, and which one is unplugged after moving everything around to put it in place? I like the Levinson a lot, but I keep putting the tube amp back in.

This is the apartment, and what I wish the system would fit in. I know, its silly, but I had to go and date an interior designer for 7 years and this is all that stuck (she certainly didn't).

 

[JohnVF]

Fair enough, and I get it...no one ever said this hobby is logical. The offer stands though, and despite never meeting in person this forum goes a long way in determining a member's reputation. If nothing else your quest has made me look again at what I'm looking for in a system as well.

I hope it ends up with you being happy with it. We all spend a lot of time switching things in and out and debating what is the best way. I wonder if there ever will be that one solution where I just get back to trying to find new music? It's taken me 5 years to realize that I'm not really a gear-head. But I certainly appreciate what the better gear can do for musical enjoyment.

 

[RayW]

What about having someone midcentury-ify the tube amp? It wouldn't be too hard to clothe its nakedness in some nice wood and add a volume control and input selector.

Note: I'm not trying to talk you out of the Leben. I've never heard it but by all reports it's a very nice piece. I'm just throwing out options. Brainstorming with your money, as it were.

 

[Negotiableterms]

Interesting, you've got a SS pre and a tube amp. I went the other way, with tube pre and SS amps, because the tubes in a pre last basically forever while the ones in amps need watching and replacement. Also, especially on the bass end, I think the SS big power makes more difference than tube sound.

Still, I keep toying with replacing my treble amps with a tube unit. Have you tried the other way?

 

[JohnVF]

What about having someone midcentury-ify the tube amp? It wouldn't be too hard to clothe its nakedness in some nice wood and add a volume control and input selector.

Note: I'm not trying to talk you out of the Leben. I've never heard it but by all reports it's a very nice piece. I'm just throwing out options. Brainstorming with your money, as it were.

I like the irony of midcentury-ifying an amp from the 1960s I could put the McCormack in a wood case...that might be interesting. I really like that unit. Once again in a head to head this morning, the McCormack sounded better than the Marantz Reference SC-11s1.

That's certainly an idea...though I'm also intrigued about hearing the Leben. I'm kicking myself for not taking the time when I was at the place that had it, but I didn't want to inconvenience my friend who was just looking at turntables, and looking a bit intimidated at being in an appointment-only audio dealership (even though he himself is probably a millionaire, he's a very very humble guy and I think the pretense was freaking him out).

 

[Frank Sol]

Note: I'm not trying to talk you out of the Leben.

Me either...:thmbsp:

Put couple of Hundred$ into your el34 amp and you may be pacified :scratch2:

 

[JohnVF]

Interesting, you've got a SS pre and a tube amp. I went the other way, with tube pre and SS amps, because the tubes in a pre last basically forever while the ones in amps need watching and replacement. Also, especially on the bass end, I think the SS big power makes more difference than tube sound.

Still, I keep toying with replacing my treble amps with a tube unit. Have you tried the other way?

I've run my Fisher 400c and YS Audio Symphonies tube preamps with both tubes and solid state with good results. This particular preamp, if you can call it that, is sort of in between. It has no gain of it's own but has both a buffered and passive output. I'm running it passive. I fell in love with its 'sound' while just playing with gear at my local stereo store. One of my best friends works there and when its slow we just try out gear to hear it in different setups. I put the McCormack in just to hear it, and bought it that day. The Fisher 400c sounds particularly good with this Dynaco amp, as do most things including the matching Fisher SA-300b amp. The Fisher preamp just sounds a bit too tubey for my taste...everything is exaggerated in size and 'bloom'. The Fisher gear was restored to sound original, while the Dynaco has a much more modern sound due to the intentions of its last owner, who rebuilt it to cure some of the criticisms of the Stereo 70.

 

[JohnVF]

Me either...:thmbsp:

Put couple of Hundred$ into your el34 amp and you may be pacified :scratch2:

There's really nowhere else this particular amp could go, I don't think. The previous owner started with a bucket of capacitors, resistors, tubes, chokes and whatever else, and rebuilt it to a slightly modified circuit (I'm just going by what he has told me, I know him) by ear. He was/is a recording engineer and wanted the most natural sounding amp he could build and this amp was the result. It has never been beaten here in an A/B test, by anything, among a number of people who've heard it. Which is to say, the Leben might just sound the same? The Leben probably has more esoteric parts in it, but the Dynaco is bizarrely nice sounding. A really interesting combination of vintage and modern tube-gear sound. I had bought it thinking it was relatively unmodified except for the different choke (which is why it sits higher than a standard 70) but I learned later that other Stereo 70s don't really sound like this. Not bad, but more mid-range forward and not as extended on both ends and not as transparent. Which is sort of my critique of my Fisher SA-300b, as well. Its been restored but I gave my tech the order to keep it about as original sounding as possible, which I kind of regret now as it sounds a bit too dark and rolled off.

The Dynaco has Amperex, Sylvania and Telefunken tubes. I'm going to buy the spare set of Amperex EL-34s my friend has for it, which could end up in the Leben as well.

 

[Frank Sol]

I heard a Will Vincent (not an endorsement) modified st70 and it was outstanding. I considered getting one

 

[JohnVF]

I heard a Will Vincent (not an endorsement) modified st70 and it was outstanding. I considered getting one

I need to find out more of what was done to this particular one. It wasn't extensively modified like some, but a lot of time was spent picking parts and matching things channel to channel. Its just really easy to listen to, all day, without sounding overly smooth.

 

[WhiteSE]

Beautiful server with glassware on top...nice!

 

[JohnVF]

Beautiful server with glassware on top...nice!

$40 at the Salvation Army, from a truck that also had AR-3as on it. The back opened up, and it was like a time capsule, and I happened to be standing there. I bought nearly everything on it.

 

[Jeffery]

I'd still try to snag that Leben. You will probably love it, and it'd be a snap to turn if you didn't. I halfheartedly look at the CS-660p now and then, only because I know that if I looked wholeheartedly, I'd be out some more $$.