Let's mod a PL-41 !

[Naptown Rob]

Funny how we were just talking about doing this the other day, & now it looks like I may be coming into a PL-41 sans tonearm.

So the question is:
What should we put on it?

I must state upfront that I do not believe in spending crazy dollars on TT's. $15,000 decks often look really cool. Their owners, not so much. :nerd:

Don't have more than $400 or so in any of mine, and this is meant as a fun low dollar experiment which could very possibly end up as a total abortion as I'll be in somewhat unfamiliar territory.

Prime cart candidate as of now is an extra Shure V15 type III that I have on hand, but that is subject to change as warranted.

The ideal tonearm candidate should be able to be had for 100 bucks or so.

Suggestions/ideas/sources?

 

[ekmanning5]

ok, so yesterday I was in my local overpriced record store when I spotted a Denon table with Grace tonearm. They wanted about 7 bills for the whole shebang so that tells me there has to be a Grace tonearm somewhere out there for a reasonable price. I know nothing about them other than the fact that they look like they came out of an Erector set. That's all I've got.

 

[Balifly]

What is the required length for the tonearm?:scratch2:
There is a Thorens TP-16 tonearm, headshell, and arm board in that price range for sale.

 

[finnbow]

I quickly roughly measured the mounting distance and effective length of the tonearm on the PL-41. The mounting distance is ~223 mm and the effective length is 237mm. These values for the Rega family of arms is 222mm and 237 respectively. The mounting hole for the Rega is 23mm whereas the existing hole in the PL-41 plinth is significantly less. Accordingly, I believe that if one could successfully offset a larger hole by 1mm or so, the Rega might just drop in. Also, the new Rega's three point bases on the 251 and 301 might make this task easier.

I'd bet the height of the Rega would likely be wrong, so either spacers or the on-the-fly aftermarket adjuster would likely be required. As for the arm, an OEM version from Moth are cheaper, but supposedly identical. If you mounted a Rega, you'd have 3 holes in the plinth from the PL-41's original tonearm rest, cueing device and cueing device adjuster.

Perhaps a nice, custom armboard to cover these holes and provide the proper height could kill two birds. I have a friend who close to being a magician with wood. He would freely make one for use I'm sure. It would cost only a couple of beers.

 

[Slowhead]

I'm not sure what and how many sleds you own, but a PL41 if straight, can be a real good earner. Well regarded as probably you know and hard to come by with the recent interest in analog among the folk with short attention spans.
Have you considered putting your efforts toward one deck and maybe having a nostalgic deck as a back-up. On paper, a 250 variant if it would fit sounds promising.

 

[Naptown Rob]

Slowhead -
here's the Genesis of this project:
A few of us PL-41 owners & lovers were talking earlier in the week about how much we like these decks & conjecture turned to arm improvements (personally I like mine just fine, but I could understand the thinking).

"A friend of ours" has 2 PL-41's that were BOTH damaged in shipping on their way to him.

They equal (1) Good PL-41 + (1) Armless, dustcover-less PL-41.
That one is our surgery candidate...

I really like the ideas expressed already (you guys are great), & will investigate further.

 

[finnbow]

I'm not sure what and how many sleds you own, but a PL41 if straight, can be a real good earner. Well regarded as probably you know and hard to come by with the recent interest in analog among the folk with short attention spans.
Have you considered putting your efforts toward one deck and maybe having a nostalgic deck as a back-up. On paper, a 250 variant if it would fit sounds promising.

BTW, there are 2 PL-41's on eBay with BIN prices of $400 and $500.:sigh: The word is out, it seems.

 

[Slowhead]

My conspiracy theory holds water. A small group of audiophiles hunting for PL41's as a "pack" is true. All that's left are the occasional BIN priced decks for those with tall money.
I mentioned the Rega 250(or similar) for availibility, not really collectable, and good enough performance to be sold new (upgraded) on Sota's and Michell's. Parts will always be around in abundance.
I'm pretty sure comparing the arms on the vinyl engine would let you know if mounting distance is an issue. A spacer may be needed, but that has been done. The only reason I can think of why I haven't seen it done is because the original arm is no slouch.
Finnbow is right, VE claims there is a 1mm difference, it may drop in.

 

[finnbow]

Finnbow is right, VE claims there is a 1mm difference, it may drop in.

I think there will be a difference is mounting hole diameter. The Rega needs a 23 mm hole and I believe Jelco's (I think the PL-41 tonearm is a Jelco) have a 20mm hole. It may be tricky enlarging such a hole, particularly while offsetting it 1 mm. Then again, I'm not a machinist. Maybe it's child's play.

 

[cactuscowboy]

Dunno how handy you are with design and fabrication, but how about a DIY unipivot tonearm?

I've thought about doing this to a Dual belt drive (hate the tonearm/headshell on it) and have gone so far as to have purchased a sapphire jewel bearing and steel pivot pin to match. Now I just need to find the time.

 

[MWalt]

I've always envisioned mine with the Rega RB-250 with the upgraded wiring (inconito) and the VTA base. If I was really bold I would take the arm off of my Music Hall MMF 5.1. That project arm is really nice.

 

[finnbow]

I've always envisioned mine with the Rega RB-250 with the upgraded wiring (inconito) and the VTA base. If I was really bold I would take the arm off of my Music Hall MMF 5.1. That project arm is really nice.

I think if you could find a machine shop willing/able to drill a 23mm hole in the plinth, you'd be good to go. It seems they might have to offset it by 1 mm to account for the very slight difference in mounting distance (223 vs. 222 mm). If the hole had to be drilled concentrically, I wonder whether 1 mm would make a difference in your ability to align the cartridge. Hmmm.

What would you do with the 3 holes left in the plinth by the tonearm rest, cueing lift, and cueing speed adjuster?

 

[Naptown Rob]

What would you do with the 3 holes left in the plinth by the tonearm rest, cueing lift, and cueing speed adjuster?

I imagine we could find some kind of decorative nubbins to plug them with...
or maybe some grey/black allen head machine bolts for that industrial look. Depending on the arm maybe the original rest would stay in place.

 

[scoops]

I have a PL-41 in need of a counter weight. The one I have is too large for the shaft. Anyone know of any around, or a suitable substitute.
Thanks
Chris

 

[MWalt]

What would you do with the 3 holes left in the plinth by the tonearm rest, cueing lift, and cueing speed adjuster?

In my case I would leave the cueing in place and put a small SS screw in place where the tone arm rest was sitting. That is due to the fact that I powder coated my deck "aluminum".

For the guys that have the stock metal, maybe use some fiberglass, i.e. auto body type stuff to fill the holes and then wet sand the entire metal base with 400 grit then spray paint it. Polish up the platter and the speed selecter and you have a pretty neat looking deck.

 

[finnbow]

I have a PL-41 in need of a counter weight. The one I have is too large for the shaft. Anyone know of any around, or a suitable substitute.
Thanks
Chris

See post #5 at this link for a possible solution. BTW, it's a Jelco arm, so maybe you can find yourself a Jelco counterweight somewhere. I think there are a few on eBay right now.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76328

Are you sure your counterweight is actually too large? If the large slot-topped fitting in the rear of the counterweight is turned counterclockwise, the weight slides freely on the tonearm (and is designed to do so in order to "zero" the counterweight).

 

[Naptown Rob]

I have a PL-41 in need of a counter weight. The one I have is too large for the shaft. Anyone know of any around, or a suitable substitute.
Thanks
Chris

I might have one - I'll check tonite.

 

[MWalt]

See post #5 at this link for a possible solution. BTW, it's a Jelco arm, so maybe you can find yourself a Jelco counterweight somewhere. I think there are a few on eBay right now.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76328

Are you sure your counterweight is actually too large? If the large slot-topped fitting in the rear of the counterweight is turned counterclockwise, the weight slides freely on the tonearm (and is designed to do so in order to "zero" the counterweight).

I read that thread and I understand what the OP was doing, but the high mass of the arm is what negates the need for an anti-skate device.

 

[finnbow]

I read that thread and I understand what the OP was doing, but the high mass of the arm is what negates the need for an anti-skate device.

Yep. I think he was trying to match the turntable to a (high compliance) cartridge, rather than vice versa (picking a cartridge appropriate to the high mass tonearm).

 

[MWalt]

Yep. I think he was trying to match the turntable to a (high compliance) cartridge, rather than vice versa (picking a cartridge appropriate to the high mass tonearm).

I agree. I would hate to think that I could possibly go to huge trouble to change arms on my PL-41 when a simple cart change may really blow me away. Something as simple as matching up a Denon DL-103 to the stock Jelco arm. Especially since I am unsure whether a Rega RB-250 would be a big upgrade over my stock arm that I have already modded with Cardas 33awg wiring.