Let's mod a PL-41 !

[Naptown Rob]

he is in dire need of your help. he must find these articles that are obviously cluttering up his abode.

i suggest unending help until he is liberated.

You wouldn't believe this guy's house. He is the packrat son of an audiophile/audio pro packrat. Very sweet guy.

 

[Tromatic]

BTW, there are 2 PL-41's on eBay with BIN prices of $400 and $500.:sigh: The word is out, it seems.

Phooey. Wonder how much I could ask for my 41A? I sooooo badly want to put a Rega or Black Widow arm on it, but no way am I going to cut on it.
ETA: Thinking an RB arm mounted on a puck of some sort? Smart guys, would that work?
ETA: The AudioTechnica ATP-12(?) and Connoisseur SAU2 fit without surgery.

ETA: I feel sorry for whoever wins those two PL-41's, as I would not bet on either of them surviving a trip through the shipping system. I gar-ohn-tee that if the platter is shipped in-place the bearing will be destroyed if not broken free from the plinth, and if the transport screws for the motor are not in place, enjoy your not-even-good-for-parts unit!

 

[MWalt]

The PL-41A arm is different than on the PL-41. Which is superior?

 

[Naptown Rob]

I believe (or should I say "guess") that the main difference is the addition of anti-skate.

On the "Oh, rats!" front, the bidding went just a little too high for me on a Micro-Seiki MA-202...

 

[TJLitt]

Which cart did Howard think optimizes the PL-41 arm the best?

what you need is a heavy cartridge with stiffer canteliever to balance the rather hefty stock PL-41 arm. Right now, I've settled on a Denon, and like the sound. It seems to mate a bit better than the Grado Red I had on it.
Of course, if you stick around, by next year, I'll have probably tried at least one or two others.

 

[TJLitt]

As for the price thing, anytime that happens I make sure to point it out to my wife for 2 reasons:
A) To further cement my reputation as an insightful genius with an uncanny knack for making bold, clever decisions.

and
B) Assuming that A) will be ignored, to make my odd habits a bit more palatable.

great rationale....it works for me!

 

[finnbow]

Which cart did Howard think optimizes the PL-41 arm the best?

Besides the Denon's (DL-103 or DL-103R, if you have an MC preamp, DL-110 or DL-160 if you don't), I seem to recall Howard being quite favorably impressed with the AT95E and its improved variants (AT95HE and AT95SA). There is also a lot of favorable buzz for the Nagaoka MP-110 and its precursor the MP-11. Alll of these cartridges are (relatively) affordable and appropriately low compliance.

 

[MWalt]

I have tried the following: Denon Dl-110, Ortofon 2M Blue, Shure M97xE, and right now I have a Shure M91ED with a Pfanstiel stylus on it. The first two have a lower compliance cantilever and the last two are definitely set up better for a low mass arm. Surprisingly, both Shures sound pretty good. The Shures will eventually end up competing for a slot on my Thorens TD 145 MK II project which is slow in coming. I still want to try a DL-103 someday.

 

[finnbow]

Oops, forget the Ortofon 2M Red and Blue. When considering a 2M Blue for my PL-41, I was told that, because of its angular shape, it would probably not fit up inside the rimmed stock headshell. Anybody know otherwise, as this cartridge is of possible future interest?

A question of all PL-41 owners. Have any of you unscrewed the bottom of your spindle bearing for a peek? I finally did and the plastic thrust plate was pretty broken up. I've seen a number of threads saying that this is almost universally true with this 40 year old turntable. I've read that the solution is to get a machine shop to cut off a slice of matching thickness from Delrin rod stock and shaping a dimple in the middle of it.

Here's an interesting thread on this issue on diyAudio (requires registration on diyAudio). I'm gonna call around to a few machine shops to see if they have any Delrin stock on hand and if they're willing to slice off a few pieces for new thrust plates. If I succeed in this, I'll have them make up a half dozen or so and contact everyone on this thread. This will be a quick "drop-in" repair taking but a couple of minutes.

 

[Tromatic]

In, in in!

Oops, forget the Ortofon 2M Red and Blue. When considering a 2M Blue for my PL-41, I was told that, because of its angular shape, it would probably not fit up inside the rimmed stock headshell. Anybody know otherwise, as this cartridge is of possible future interest?

A question of all PL-41 owners. Have any of you unscrewed the bottom of your spindle bearing for a peek? I finally did and the plastic thrust plate was pretty broken up. I've seen a number of threads saying that this is almost universally true with this 40 year old turntable. I've read that the solution is to get a machine shop to cut off a slice of matching thickness from Delrin rod stock and shaping a dimple in the middle of it.

Here's an interesting thread on this issue on diyAudio (requires registration on diyAudio). I'm gonna call around to a few machine shops to see if they have any Delrin stock on hand and if they're willing to slice off a few pieces for new thrust plates. If I succeed in this, I'll have them make up a half dozen or so and contact everyone on this thread. This will be a quick "drop-in" repair taking but a couple of minutes.

 

[Tromatic]

I have tried the following: Denon Dl-110, Ortofon 2M Blue, Shure M97xE, and right now I have a Shure M91ED with a Pfanstiel stylus on it. The first two have a lower compliance cantilever and the last two are definitely set up better for a low mass arm. Surprisingly, both Shures sound pretty good. The Shures will eventually end up competing for a slot on my Thorens TD 145 MK II project which is slow in coming. I still want to try a DL-103 someday.

I get beat up for this every time I say it, but here I go a gain. If you have a Pioneer PL-41 or 41A, just go ahead and get a DL-160 or DL-103. Yes, there are better carts, but for some reason it's a very good match.

 

[Tromatic]

The PL-41A arm is different than on the PL-41. Which is superior?

The PL-41 arm is very basic, but seems to be a good arm. The 41A arm has anti-skate and can easily be adjusted for VTA if you need to because of the way it is mounted, and the 'lateral weight' is used for left-right balance of the arm.

 

[finnbow]

The PL-41 arm is very basic, but seems to be a good arm. The 41A arm has anti-skate and can easily be adjusted for VTA if you need to because of the way it is mounted, and the 'lateral weight' is used for left-right balance of the arm.

Actually, the PL-41 has easy VTA adjustment as well, but via small set screws in the arm's collar instead of the more sophisticated mechanism of the PL-41a.

 

[TJLitt]

Oops, forget the Ortofon 2M Red and Blue. When considering a 2M Blue for my PL-41, I was told that, because of its angular shape, it would probably not fit up inside the rimmed stock headshell. Anybody know otherwise, as this cartridge is of possible future interest?

A question of all PL-41 owners. Have any of you unscrewed the bottom of your spindle bearing for a peek? I finally did and the plastic thrust plate was pretty broken up. I've seen a number of threads saying that this is almost universally true with this 40 year old turntable. I've read that the solution is to get a machine shop to cut off a slice of matching thickness from Delrin rod stock and shaping a dimple in the middle of it.

Here's an interesting thread on this issue on diyAudio (requires registration on diyAudio). I'm gonna call around to a few machine shops to see if they have any Delrin stock on hand and if they're willing to slice off a few pieces for new thrust plates. If I succeed in this, I'll have them make up a half dozen or so and contact everyone on this thread. This will be a quick "drop-in" repair taking but a couple of minutes.

VERY generous offer. As for me, I've never dared look, as all seems to work fine. As for the Ortofon issue, I use Tonar Headshells, with 2g and 4g screw-in weights, as a replacement for the original. Work well, are affordable, and give one a bit more versatility.

 

[finnbow]

VERY generous offer. As for me, I've never dared look, as all seems to work fine. As for the Ortofon issue, I use Tonar Headshells, with 2g and 4g screw-in weights, as a replacement for the original. Work well, are affordable, and give one a bit more versatility.

I was doing some routine maintenance on some my gear and decided to take a look. I didn't have any spindle noise, but decided to take a look. It's really easy to take a look once you gotten around to disconnecting the TT. Pop off the headshell for protection's sake, set the table on its side, remove base and unscrew the bottom of the spindle bearing's tube (a knurled knob). I left the cracked up nylon thrust bearing in place, cleaned out any debris, put some oil in and buttoned it up. It's probably worth a look.

 

[Tromatic]

Actually, the PL-41 has easy VTA adjustment as well, but via small set screws in the arm's collar instead of the more sophisticated mechanism of the PL-41a.

I wouldn't call it 'sophisticated', but it works! I forgot about the set screws on the 41 arm.

 

[Naptown Rob]

Finnbow - I'm in for 3 of them.

As for the Ortofons, I tried a Red - it fit, but I really didn't like the way it sounded. Thin & brittle, as I recall.

 

[MWalt]

Oops, forget the Ortofon 2M Red and Blue. When considering a 2M Blue for my PL-41, I was told that, because of its angular shape, it would probably not fit up inside the rimmed stock headshell. Anybody know otherwise, as this cartridge is of possible future interest?

A question of all PL-41 owners. Have any of you unscrewed the bottom of your spindle bearing for a peek? I finally did and the plastic thrust plate was pretty broken up. I've seen a number of threads saying that this is almost universally true with this 40 year old turntable. I've read that the solution is to get a machine shop to cut off a slice of matching thickness from Delrin rod stock and shaping a dimple in the middle of it.

Here's an interesting thread on this issue on diyAudio (requires registration on diyAudio). I'm gonna call around to a few machine shops to see if they have any Delrin stock on hand and if they're willing to slice off a few pieces for new thrust plates. If I succeed in this, I'll have them make up a half dozen or so and contact everyone on this thread. This will be a quick "drop-in" repair taking but a couple of minutes.

I dont think the Ortofon Blue will work with the stock headshell because of the way it mounts (screw in from the top). Besides, I don't think it is a good match to this arm. As for your very kind offer, count me in on a thrust plate!

I get beat up for this every time I say it, but here I go a gain. If you have a Pioneer PL-41 or 41A, just go ahead and get a DL-160 or DL-103. Yes, there are better carts, but for some reason it's a very good match.

I have a very strong feeling that the DL-103 will sound best with this arm. I srewed around with four different carts today taking painstaking care in getting alignment, VTF, and VTA about perfect. Sadly, the end state is that no combo can come close to sounding as good as my Music Hall MMF 5.1 with the Goldring GX 1012 cart. It also bested my Sony PS-X50 (Thedelihaus owns it now) and my Sony PS-X6. Again, this leads me to believe that a better arm could be a huge difference. I really don't want to toss a couple Benjamins at a DL-103 only for my PL-41 to be bested once again by my new TT.

 

[Isotonic]

I have a very strong feeling that the DL-103 will sound best with this arm. I srewed around with four different carts today taking painstaking care in getting alignment, VTF, and VTA about perfect. Sadly, the end state is that no combo can come close to sounding as good as my Music Hall MMF 5.1 with the Goldring GX 1012 cart. It also bested my Sony PS-X50 (Thedelihaus owns it now) and my Sony PS-X6. Again, this leads me to believe that a better arm could be a huge difference. I really don't want to toss a couple Benjamins at a DL-103 only for my PL-41 to be bested once again by my new TT.

Who needs Las Vegas! All my gambling is on stereo gear.

By the way, Yogi Computers has the 103 for $149., new. I have experience with this seller and he is excellent.

Finnbow, I would love a couple of spare delrin discs if you have enough to spare. I would be happy to compensate you.

 

[AudioSoul]

You have to be carefull choosing a arm for the PL-41. The platter sits really low and tou have to find a arm that will adjust lower to compensate for the low platter.....