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Let's mod a PL-41 !

Mark Walters said:
The Sumiko arm I chose was made by Jelco and is a much better arm than the SA250. Matter of fact it is a bit better than the Jelco750 as well.
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Well, of course, they have various levels of build quality and price points available. They even made an arm for Grahm not too long ago, which was loosely based on the SA250 but of substantially higher refinement/specifications. I believe that was the Robin model. The Rotel arm I mentioned is also loosely based on the SA250, but a significantly more refined version custom built for Rotel. Jelco is simply a large scale machine shop that specializes in tone arms, it seems. :)

-Chris
 
WmAx said:
Well, of course, they have various levels of build quality and price points available. They even made an arm for Grahm not too long ago, which was loosely based on the SA250 but of substantially higher refinement/specifications. I believe that was the Robin model. The Rotel arm I mentioned is also loosely based on the SA250, but a significantly more refined version custom built for Rotel. Jelco is simply a large scale machine shop that specializes in tone arms, it seems. :)

-Chris
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Chris, this really is a big experiment and I may fail miserably. I also agree with you that the Jelco line is some pretty good stuff to include the 250. I may end up having to sell the arm after all is said and done.
 
Naptown Rob said:
I salute you Mr. Walters, but remember:

The early bird gets the worm,
But the second mouse gets the cheese...:scratch2:
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LOL @ Rob. I am not sure if I am the bird or the first mouse on this one. This could end up to be a costly experiment that ends in complete and utter failure. Conversely, I may hit a home run and provide other PL-41 club members with a nice alternative to stock. In the end, if I am successful, a lot of the credit will have to be dispersed among all of you without which I could not even attempt this.
 
WmAx said:
Well, of course, they have various levels of build quality and price points available. They even made an arm for Grahm not too long ago, which was loosely based on the SA250 but of substantially higher refinement/specifications. I believe that was the Robin model. The Rotel arm I mentioned is also loosely based on the SA250, but a significantly more refined version custom built for Rotel. Jelco is simply a large scale machine shop that specializes in tone arms, it seems. :)

-Chris
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Chris- you are correct in regards to the Graham Robin.

The Graham Robin is a Jelco product.

Jelco is actually ICHIKAWA JEWEL CO.,Ltd. But that's a mouthful.

Jelco just rolls off the tongue...


So, AR, Ariston, Koetsu, Graham (Robin series), Sumiko, Mission, Rotel, Avid, Revolver, earlier Pro-Ject, Earlier VPI and Acoustic Signature a few more Jelco manufactured arms or tables sold with plain unmarked arms, to look for.
 
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ALERT-

Just read the Jelco 750 series has gone to a 30mm shaft- too big for the Pioneer's stock hole.

Better to shop for the MMT/FT-3/4 series Sumiko.

Also, although i dunno what the mounting hole size is, other than that unknown, the very, very early Jelco SA-200 features good measurements-

Effective length: 229mm
Overhang: 15mm
Mounting distance: 214mm

This has sold typically under $200.


I'm still searching on Jelco 370 numbers, which sell for $300. They have unfinished ends so you need to add your own DIN plug and cable.

Careful- some ship with bases, some without.
 
Mark Walters said:
LOL @ Rob. I am not sure if I am the bird or the first mouse on this one. This could end up to be a costly experiment that ends in complete and utter failure. Conversely, I may hit a home run and provide other PL-41 club members with a nice alternative to stock. In the end, if I am successful, a lot of the credit will have to be dispersed among all of you without which I could not even attempt this.
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Heh heh - I don't know either, Mark. All I know is that when all of this is done we will have had some fun, & can share what we learn with others. And you're right - the credit will go to AK'ers. For the concept, and then the ideas.

I continue to take note of all the tips & opinions on arms as I continue my search...
 
Well, I may eventually put a new arm on my PL-41, but for now, I have just bought a nice 15gm headshell and a DL-103. In a week or so I may have it all together.

Since this seems to be the optimum combo for the existing arm, it would be good to do a side by side comparison with one with a Jelco arm or similar.

I have wondered for a long time, what a difference a higher quality arm might make, or maybe the original is better than I think.

Anyway, I live in the Austin TX area. I would go as far as Dallas or San Antonio for a shoot-off.
 
Naptown Rob said:
I continue to take note of all the tips & opinions on arms as I continue my search...
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FWIW, it appears all of Micro-Seiki's tonearms listed at vinylengine meet your parameters. I never see any available cheap, but in case someone stumbles accross a deal, there you are.
 
Isotonic said:
Well, I may eventually put a new arm on my PL-41, but for now, I have just bought a nice 15gm headshell and a DL-103. In a week or so I may have it all together.

Since this seems to be the optimum combo for the existing arm, it would be good to do a side by side comparison with one with a Jelco arm or similar.

I have wondered for a long time, what a difference a higher quality arm might make, or maybe the original is better than I think.

Anyway, I live in the Austin TX area. I would go as far as Dallas or San Antonio for a shoot-off.
Click to expand...

We could be on a wild goose chase here...What you did is another option that I have been pondering. I am going to put the new arm in and if I am unsatisfied I will go directly the same route you just took. My PL-41 is a keeper.
 
jimreeves said:
FWIW, it appears all of Micro-Seiki's tonearms listed at vinylengine meet your parameters. I never see any available cheap, but in case someone stumbles accross a deal, there you are.
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Jim, Deli and I have been discussing the merits of the Micro Seiki arms. He is a big fan of them.
 
jimreeves said:
FWIW, it appears all of Micro-Seiki's tonearms listed at vinylengine meet your parameters. I never see any available cheap, but in case someone stumbles accross a deal, there you are.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention this- before I read this, I gave Rob a call on this very topic.

I have seen a few Sansui arms that resemble typical at-the-time Japanese build styles, and I am loosely assuming that it is quite possible Sansui had the arms manufactured by Micro Seiki.

I have had a few in hand, and they meet the mounting distance/length needed.

These whole tables can often be had for $100 or so, and the arms can be pulled off these early, lesser advanced tables that hover in that interim period between the robust belt drive early beautiful beasties and the later zenith flagship epoch models- the high-tech, direct drive, quartz models.


So keep an eye out for arms off donor tables from Micro Seiki, Sansui, and other Japanese decks, off-brand and more popular alike.



Like I said, the Sansui arms I've had grace my desk reside roughly within this size parameter, and I betcha Micro Seiki built them.

If not early Micro Seiki, perhaps early Jelco.

Jelco has been making arms for quite a long time- I know at least since 1975, but most likely earlier than this.
 
Got my delrin disk today, thanks, Finn!

Looks like I'll have to take the 41 off the shelf, rebuild the bearing, and give it a try next week when I get some time....maybe it's also time to order some silver wire and rewire the tonearm....and install a proper JIS/DIN connector in the base of the arm....guess I'll have to order one from Cardas with our next order from them....and no, none of the more modern tonearm leads I have from Graham (which I use and love on my Linn Ittok), XLO, or others will fit the larger pins that are on the Pioneer's tonearm...the pins are too thick and the circle diameter is a bit larger than what is currently being used...in my experience I found out over a decade and a half ago that tonearm leads are one of the most important audio cables in the system...going that route instead of attaching clips to the stock tonearm connector and running wires from that to RCA jacks, as I have now, cuts the total number of connections from the cartridge pins to the preamp from 11 to 8...it has also been my experience that at this point, which is the circuit of lowest potential in an audio system, that reducing the number of connections is always beneficial...

So, maybe it's time to see just what a stock 41 with a rewired tonearm, new delrin disk, and a decent phono lead sounds like...I'll create a new thread when (or if!) that happens! In my life, procrastination happens with great rapidity and regularity....
 
Oooh! I wonder if mine came.

I'm headed home now to the world of no internet. And since I'm a Comcast customer, it won't be fixed til sometime on Sunday...
God I hate them!
 
I think everyone should be getting their Delrin bearings in today's or tomorrow's mail if the USPS does their part (except TJLitt - haven't heard from him yet).

BTW, I'm still getting price proposals for machining these bearings. I got a price today of $16.50 apiece after having received a proposal yesterday for $12.75..:no:

How 'bout a retroactive price hike, fellas?:D Just kidding, of course. I hope these bearings work out well for all.
 
Finnbow
Received my disk today !!! allready got it in and the table running.
Ill let her run a while then see how she does.
Thanks again bud!!
Now all I need to do is to get that ridge machined off the platter so's I can run my felt mat.
bob
bob
 
Hey guys. Last time I took apart the well that the bearing sits in I seem to have lost the seal and oil leaks out. What are you guys sealing the joint with?
 
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