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Let's mod a PL-41 !

Isotonic said:
Hey guys. Last time I took apart the well that the bearing sits in I seem to have lost the seal and oil leaks out. What are you guys sealing the joint with?
Click to expand...

Check this post out-



MrIgotNomoney said:
Guys
I want to throw a tip out there.
The PL-41 bearing has a thin paper or fibre gasket that seals the bearing cap, Im assuming to keep the oil from leaking out. Everyone I have seen is destroyed as soon as the bearing cap is unscrewed.
What I did was to take a strip of teflon tape, the kind used in plumbing, lay out about a 6-7 inch piece flat and slice it longways down the middle.
Then wrap the threads of the bearing housing with the teflon tape, i made 2 complete wraps, do this before you oil the spindle and replace the cap.
To do all this I remove the bearing housing 3 screws, and lift out the bearing housing. When the housing is out I clean all the parts,wrap the bearing housing threads with the teflon tape. Then lube the spindle drop that back in. Then add a few drops of oil and replace the bearing cap. You will notice that the spindle will not settle down all the way because of the oil in the housing. What I did was to hold the bearing housing in my hand while pushing down on the spindle tip with my thumb.
Within a few minutes the air and a little oil bled out around the top area of the bearing housing around the spindle as it settled in.
No leakage what so ever from the screw on cap.

Also something to consider I also polished the spindle, using a drill press, very fine crocus cloth, I think 2000 grit then used metal polish till it reflected like a mirror. I also polished the thrust tip, I used a block of fairly soft wood, and liquid metal polish allowing the thrust tip to make an indentation in the block, a few drops of polish in the indentation and then letting the tip ride in the polish, I used very light pressure.
This polished the tip to perfection.
I used mobile 1 synthetic to lubricate my bearing.
bob
Click to expand...
 
Finn

You are a true gentleman. Thank you for the Disk...
Maybe I can bribe Naptown to do the install for me!

Jim
 
Jimmy64 said:
Finn

You are a true gentleman. Thank you for the Disk...
Maybe I can bribe Naptown to do the install for me!

Jim
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's dead friggin' easy. PM me if you want and I'll give you my phone number and I'll walk you through it. It'll take all of two minutes.
 
Got mine! Thanks finnbow! And thanks for the Teflon tape tip! and Same to you delihaus for the thread quote!

I got my DL-103 in today. I still need the headshell. I am thinking that while I have the table disassembled I might as well add another coat of wipe on poly to the plinth. I also have some scrap ipe from my deck. I will liquid nail to the plinth to give it some mass and to deaden resonance. And finally I'll add a plate with a couple of female RCA's and ditch the old patch cord.

So far I have refinished the plinth and replaced the tonearm wire. I also re-tensioned the tonearm bearings as they were a bit loosey goosey.

I am pretty excited to hear the results.

Maybe I will put some resonance damping rubber on the metal part of the plinth too.
 
I also re-tensioned the tonearm bearings as they were a bit loosey goosey.
Click to expand...

How exactly does one do this? I'd very much appreciate a brief tutorial on this as mine is a bit loosey goosey as well.
 
finnbow said:
How exactly does one do this? I'd very much appreciate a brief tutorial on this as mine is a bit loosey goosey as well.
Click to expand...

When I did my bearings, I had the tonearm off the table.
If you look at the arm there are 3 adjustments.
One on the top and one on each side, all three have concentric locking collars.
I made a tool, basically a small screwdriver with a thin blade, I took a notch out of the tip of the blade leaving just enough of the tip to fit into the collar.
What I did was loosen both of the collars for the horizontal bearings being very carefull not to change the center bearing screw.
Then working from left to right, making tiny adjustments back and forth I was successfull in snugging up the bearings without any binding.
I turned each center screw a few degrees at a time, tiny adjustments make a big difference !
I did this by feel, so all I did was take out the play, and then put a very slight load on the bearings. VERY SLIGHT !
Tighted up the locking collars making sure I didnt change the adjustment of the center screw. Watch when you tighten up the collars they may add a little more load to the center screws.
What I was trying to do is keep the arms position relative to the pillar, making sure I got rid of the play without any binding.
After I did that I adjusted the pillar bearing the same way, just enough to get rid of the play.
When I did this I also took apart the counter weight, cleaned and lubed that so making tiny adjustments is easy.
After all this the arm balances with no problem at all, and will track a record running a Shure at 1 gram.
I don't have a way of testing the bearing friction, but with the arm ballanced it takes nothing to move it up and down or side to side.
And it will easily track at 1 gram with no stylus deflection, So I figure the friction is at least reasonable.
Right now Im running a Sumiko headshell, It weighs 13 or so grams + a Grace lead weight that weighs, Im guessing 4-5 grams and the Denon 103. So the cart is in a headshell weighing in at about 17 grams. Im at the upper end of being able to balance the arm. It will just balance.
Set the tracking weight with a Shure gage to 2.5 gram tracking weight.




P.S. I only tightened the collars finger tight, just snug nothing more.

bob
 
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Guys
I have been working on this table off and on for quite a while and I am pretty amaized at how well this guy performes.
Listening to a bunch of VTL minimilast recordings, MFSL records and just music in general this guy performes, very clean and clear, no mechinical noise at all. Im not hearing any distortion thru an entire side, excellent stage. the detail is there.
Way the hell better that you would think for a 60's turntable.
Damn good engineering.
One thing I notice is the table has to be isolated from what ever it's sitting on. Or in a heavier plinth, I really like the looks of the original plinth, the look just works. maybe build a new plinth that has the same look just add mass.
I run my TD124 on a target stand with a second shelf sitting on sorbothane hocky pucks. Im planning on trying the PL-41 on my stand to see if that makes a difference.
Im planning on having a couple buddies over to hear this, I know what their reaction will be when they see it, but after they hear it I think their opinions will change pretty quickly.
What Im saying is a stock PL-41 with a little tweek work is one hell of a performer.

bob
 
When I did my bearings, I had the tonearm off the table.
If you look at the arm there are 3 adjustments.
One on the top and one on each side, all three have concentric locking collars.
I made a tool, basically a small screwdriver with a thin blade, I took a notch out of the tip of the blade leaving just enough of the tip to fit into the collar.
What I did was loosen both of the collars for the horizontal bearings being very carefull not to change the center bearing screw.
Then working from left to right, making tiny adjustments back and forth I was successfull in snugging up the bearings without any binding.
I turned each center screw a few degrees at a time, tiny adjustments make a big difference !
I did this by feel, so all I did was take out the play, and then put a very slight load on the bearings. VERY SLIGHT !
Tighted up the locking collars making sure I didnt change the adjustment of the center screw. Watch when you tighten up the collars they may add a little more load to the center screws.
Click to expand...

Looking at it, it also seems that one can loosen the locking collars with a normal screwdriver and tighten the bearing screws inside them with a jeweler's screwdriver. Does this jive with what you experienced?
 
I did mine mounted. It's such a delicate move, I would think you could have more control with the stability and leverage of the arm mounted.
 
finnbow said:
When I did my bearings, I had the tonearm off the table.


Looking at it, it also seems that one can loosen the locking collars with a normal screwdriver and tighten the bearing screws inside them with a jeweler's screwdriver. Does this jive with what you experienced?
Click to expand...

Yes, I made the tool because I thought it would make the job easier, and I didnt want to risk messing up the locking collars.

bob
 
Well, I got a little more scoop on the tonearm bearing adjustment. The inner ring is the bearing adjustment and the outer ring is to loosen it so it can be adjusted. So you loosen outer ring keeping the driver on the outer ring, then adjust bearing by feel erring on the side of looseness.

Danger: over-tightening can damage the bearing by putting flat spots on it from applying too much force.

Oops, I now realize that this has already been stated, so I will relabel this as supporting evidence.
 
There must be a special spanner tool to do this because the inner screw should be held in place while the outer locking ring is tightened or loosened. You could recheck the tightness of the bearings once you tighten the locking ring but it is almost guaranteed that the inner screw will turn a little when tightening the locking ring.

One could probably be made from a flat blade screwdriver by bending the tip to 90 degrees and then grinding the center portion out for clearance.
 
If I recall correctly, I used a couple of jewelers sized flat screwdrivers. Very quick work. No special tools needed.
 
Guys
Im dreaming of doing a repaint on my PL-41 but for now gonna start a Watco refinish on the base.
Has anyone got any info on rewiring the tonearm ? possibly changing to a DIN connector update, Id like to upgrade the arm cable at the least.
bob
 
MrIgotNomoney said:
Guys
Im dreaming of doing a repaint on my PL-41 but for now gonna start a Watco refinish on the base.
Has anyone got any info on rewiring the tonearm ? possibly changing to a DIN connector update, Id like to upgrade the arm cable at the least.
bob
Click to expand...

I will be going through mine at some point in the near future...I will be ordering the "20' stranded 32 AWG Silver Teflon Wire 5 color Tonearm" from John's Silver Teflon Wire Shop on ebay (no affiliation at all on my part), just to try the stuff...I do want something that may end up brighter than the normal Cardas 33ga. that I normally use to rewire tonearms...but, I will use the Cardas Male DIN, and maybe the DIN-R (for Rega) once I look up the engineering drawings and measure the opening in the bottom of the Pioneer tonearm...

The rest of it should be pretty straightforward...I would loosen the current base connector and see if there is enough slack in the wires attached to that to solder a piece of wire wrap wire to...then I would loosen the headshell attachment and use that socket to pull the new "messenger" wire through....then attach my new wires to the base end of the messenger wire, pull them through the tonearm, solder them to the headshell socket connector, trim the base ends and solder them to the new DIN connector....or, you might be able to attach the wire wrap wire to the conductors previously attached to the headshell connector and pull it through toward the base...either way, do not rip out the internal wiring until you have run something through the tonearm to pull the new wiring back through with!

After doing way north of a hundred Rega tonearms this is just second nature to me...

The new Incoginito kits that we have been getting since Garth, the originator of the kit, passed away has the right channel wires twisted together and the left ones twisted together, but in an opposite directions...I do not know if this specifically decreases channel to channel interference or not, but it sure makes the wires easier to pull through without breaking them, so I am likely to do the same when I rewire my arm...

Good Luck!
 
RickB said:
I will be going through mine at some point in the near future...I will be ordering the "20' stranded 32 AWG Silver Teflon Wire 5 color Tonearm" from John's Silver Teflon Wire Shop on ebay (no affiliation at all on my part), just to try the stuff...I do want something that may end up brighter than the normal Cardas 33ga. that I normally use to rewire tonearms...but, I will use the Cardas Male DIN, and maybe the DIN-R (for Rega) once I look up the engineering drawings and measure the opening in the bottom of the Pioneer tonearm...

The rest of it should be pretty straightforward...I would loosen the current base connector and see if there is enough slack in the wires attached to that to solder a piece of wire wrap wire to...then I would loosen the headshell attachment and use that socket to pull the new "messenger" wire through....then attach my new wires to the base end of the messenger wire, pull them through the tonearm, solder them to the headshell socket connector, trim the base ends and solder them to the new DIN connector....or, you might be able to attach the wire wrap wire to the conductors previously attached to the headshell connector and pull it through toward the base...either way, do not rip out the internal wiring until you have run something through the tonearm to pull the new wiring back through with!

After doing way north of a hundred Rega tonearms this is just second nature to me...

The new Incoginito kits that we have been getting since Garth, the originator of the kit, passed away has the right channel wires twisted together and the left ones twisted together, but in an opposite directions...I do not know if this specifically decreases channel to channel interference or not, but it sure makes the wires easier to pull through without breaking them, so I am likely to do the same when I rewire my arm...

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks
I see the Cardas DIN/DIN-R with the spacer to fit Rega arm's.
Ill have to measure the Pioneer's arm pillar.
bob
 
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