PickyEars81
Super Member
I have been using Hoppe's Gun Oil.
istols:istols:istols:istols: Seems to work great. Any problems with that?
Let's mod a PL-41 !
- Thread starter Naptown Rob
- Start date
I have been using Hoppe's Gun Oil.
istols:istols:istols:istols: Seems to work great. Any problems with that?
MrIgotNomoney
Well-Known Member
Wow
I have one of those im my goodie box, M3D I think.Just needs a stylus.
bob
I have one of those im my goodie box, M3D I think.Just needs a stylus.
bob
$20. Not bad for "Better than a Grado Sonata". I will be checking that out.
The biggest "thing" about the M-3D that I find is it's dynamics...
I've also got three different kinds of styli for them, all aftermarket I'm afraid, and each one of these sounds different from the next...but, the dynamics still come through...
It's not the most revealing cartridge, but it tracks fairly well, has a much higher output level than the Sonata...it's not the most extended on the high end, but it's adequate, it's just a fun cartridge to listen to...it does seem less veiled than my Grado Prestige models with a heck of a lot better dynamic impact, and it's fairly even with the Sonata in terms of frequency response, but the dynamics make the Shure sound crisper and more exciting, but with perhaps a bit less soundstaging...I will have to do more comparisons to figure that out, though...
Switching to even a low level MC cartridge, like the Ortofon X-3MC, though, shows what the differences are, the Ortofon is a lot cleaner, clearer, has better width and depth, and extracts a lot more from the grooves...listening to music with a lot fine detail, like say a string quartet, allows you to see deeper into the sound of the instruments, the string texture for instance, whereas the Shure shows more of the attack of the bow or the finger on a string...which is right?
They both are, when combined, that is...which is something that the upper tier cartridges are able to get better, when properly situated on the correct arm with the correct geometry, loading, VTA, etc. all dialed in...
But, there's a reason that the old cartridges are collected and used all these years later...they provide a sonic panorama that is warm and dynamic and just a whole lot of fun to listen to....
I'm glad I have a couple!
.
I've also got three different kinds of styli for them, all aftermarket I'm afraid, and each one of these sounds different from the next...but, the dynamics still come through...
It's not the most revealing cartridge, but it tracks fairly well, has a much higher output level than the Sonata...it's not the most extended on the high end, but it's adequate, it's just a fun cartridge to listen to...it does seem less veiled than my Grado Prestige models with a heck of a lot better dynamic impact, and it's fairly even with the Sonata in terms of frequency response, but the dynamics make the Shure sound crisper and more exciting, but with perhaps a bit less soundstaging...I will have to do more comparisons to figure that out, though...
Switching to even a low level MC cartridge, like the Ortofon X-3MC, though, shows what the differences are, the Ortofon is a lot cleaner, clearer, has better width and depth, and extracts a lot more from the grooves...listening to music with a lot fine detail, like say a string quartet, allows you to see deeper into the sound of the instruments, the string texture for instance, whereas the Shure shows more of the attack of the bow or the finger on a string...which is right?
They both are, when combined, that is...which is something that the upper tier cartridges are able to get better, when properly situated on the correct arm with the correct geometry, loading, VTA, etc. all dialed in...
But, there's a reason that the old cartridges are collected and used all these years later...they provide a sonic panorama that is warm and dynamic and just a whole lot of fun to listen to....
I'm glad I have a couple!
.
Guess not, whatever spins your platter!
MrIgotNomoney
Well-Known Member
I've kept the PL-41 in the system for a while now, so I decided to mount up and align another cartridge, one of my favorites, and one that is older than a lot of folks here on AK...
It sounds pretty darn amazing, listening to an Angel Master Series DMM pressing of Rodrigo's "Concierto de Aranjuez" with Angel Romero and the London Symphony Orchestra....
Absolutely wonderful...
To think that one of the very first stereophonic phono cartridges can sound this good blows my mind...better than my Sonata by a long shot....
Oh well, onward and upward!
You guys are not going to believe this, Im not sure I do.
Went junkin with a buddy and stopped in our local surplus house.
Well they had in an old display of stylus's and cartridges.
In all this mess I found 2 types of stylus made by Electrovoice that fit the Shure M3D.
One is a PM3114D and a PM3118D, the PM3118D is listed as the replacement for the M3D stylus.
I bought them all at $2 how could I go wrong....
Anyhow looking at the PM3118D the cantilever is pretty thick, just like the original. Looking at the PM3114D the cantilever is considerably thinner.
Both stylus are the same otherwise !!!!! IM thinking the PM3114D is the replacement for the Shure M7D, I know this is a lighter tracking pickup.
Any comments ???? And yes Im going to mount it o the PL41.
bob
MrIgotNomoney
Well-Known Member
Rick
Your on to something here, I gotta say that the M3D is pretty darn good.
I put in the new stylus and have played several records, the bass is pretty spectacular.
Just flows, going into a Music Reference RM5, to a Hafler 9000.
The high end is there just a little soft, but I think it seems to be breaking in the stylus and its suspension, getting better than the first play.
Pretty easy on the ears, reminds me of a good Goldring.
bob
Your on to something here, I gotta say that the M3D is pretty darn good.
I put in the new stylus and have played several records, the bass is pretty spectacular.
Just flows, going into a Music Reference RM5, to a Hafler 9000.
The high end is there just a little soft, but I think it seems to be breaking in the stylus and its suspension, getting better than the first play.
Pretty easy on the ears, reminds me of a good Goldring.
bob
Naptown Rob
Ponographer
OK - after about a month of being way to busy to do much of anything hobby related I'm back.
Mark - way to go man! Looks fantastic - bet it sounds great, too. Good inspiration for me to get off my duff & see what I can do to complete this project...
Mark - way to go man! Looks fantastic - bet it sounds great, too. Good inspiration for me to get off my duff & see what I can do to complete this project...
The Pioneer is still in the system and I am still enjoying it...
I made a "spotmat" for the table taking in to account the large upraised ring in the center of the platter...
I had some heavy watercolor artist's paper out in the garage left from my GF's late father, stuff is made in France, has a canvas texture, and is fairly thick...
I just laid out a simple patter, where the opposite side has the opposite of what you can see...i.e., where you see one large spot on top, the underside radial has two cork spots, thereby utilizing the paper as a kind of "suspension" between dots...so, where you see two small spots there are three small ones underneath them...there are never any cork dots directly above each other, rather there is always an area of paper between....
To do it in just the text here would be something like this (I hope it renders OK, it might if you don't have any different font set than what I use, which is the default):
_____dot__________dot__________dot
paperpaperpaperpaperpaperpaperpaperpaper
____________dot__________dot
I analyzed the cork ring design of my Ringmat and this seemed to be their philosophy, use the cork pads to support the paper and then use the paper and rings on top to support the LP, but there are never any rings on top directly above the rings on the bottom...
So, here's a shot of it:
Now, to make one for the center label area....
Have fun!
P.S.,
One thing I haven't done is to check and see where the dots fall on things other than 12" LP's, I guess I'll have to crack open my Jimi Hendrix 45RPM box set and see what they fit like....
.
.
I made a "spotmat" for the table taking in to account the large upraised ring in the center of the platter...
I had some heavy watercolor artist's paper out in the garage left from my GF's late father, stuff is made in France, has a canvas texture, and is fairly thick...
I just laid out a simple patter, where the opposite side has the opposite of what you can see...i.e., where you see one large spot on top, the underside radial has two cork spots, thereby utilizing the paper as a kind of "suspension" between dots...so, where you see two small spots there are three small ones underneath them...there are never any cork dots directly above each other, rather there is always an area of paper between....
To do it in just the text here would be something like this (I hope it renders OK, it might if you don't have any different font set than what I use, which is the default):
_____dot__________dot__________dot
paperpaperpaperpaperpaperpaperpaperpaper
____________dot__________dot
I analyzed the cork ring design of my Ringmat and this seemed to be their philosophy, use the cork pads to support the paper and then use the paper and rings on top to support the LP, but there are never any rings on top directly above the rings on the bottom...
So, here's a shot of it:
Now, to make one for the center label area....
Have fun!
P.S.,
One thing I haven't done is to check and see where the dots fall on things other than 12" LP's, I guess I'll have to crack open my Jimi Hendrix 45RPM box set and see what they fit like....
.
.
OK, well, tried the 45, and if I were to do it again I would be sure to have all the cork pads inside of the outer rim of the 45, to where the record's surface and not the rim is supported....so, I will have to do a bit different spacing if I do a MkII version...
.
.
MWalt
Super Member
Welcome back Rob! Still a ways to go here with tweaks and changes and improvements. Check out the cool badges that Deli designed to cover the holes in the metal base.
I guess it's time I got back to this project. As you can see from the pictures, I am doing what I can to reduce vibration and resonance. In picture 4 with the upside down plinth and wood pieces you can see a large block of Epi. Epi is one of the densest woods known. It sinks in water and is fire rated the same as concrete. Glued to the center of the plinth, the plinth top now vibrates with a hard thud. I am waiting for a sheet of something like Dynamat to arrive in the mail for the sides= of the plinth
I have also added corners to the bottom to give a platform for isolation cones.
The first three pictures show the clay and putty used to deaden the chassis and motor. I'm trying to deaden anything that might ring or rattle. I plan on buying a Herbie's mat to deaden the platter.
In the last picture you see my preparation for new cables. I am going to try to solder the wires directly to the unique DIN plug on the arm. I am using a Blue Jeans low capacitance Belden cable. I am also using headshell end clips to fit over the pins, which I will then solder. I am just waiting for a few more pins from Garage A, to complete.
I have also done the Delrin Disc mod to the Bearing assembly, and rewired the tonearm with new copper with silver wire and Teflon jacket.
I have also added corners to the bottom to give a platform for isolation cones.
The first three pictures show the clay and putty used to deaden the chassis and motor. I'm trying to deaden anything that might ring or rattle. I plan on buying a Herbie's mat to deaden the platter.
In the last picture you see my preparation for new cables. I am going to try to solder the wires directly to the unique DIN plug on the arm. I am using a Blue Jeans low capacitance Belden cable. I am also using headshell end clips to fit over the pins, which I will then solder. I am just waiting for a few more pins from Garage A, to complete.
I have also done the Delrin Disc mod to the Bearing assembly, and rewired the tonearm with new copper with silver wire and Teflon jacket.
Attachments
Last edited:
finnbow
The Dude Abides
You need to refill the cueing device with silicone oil. Search AK and you'll find some details on doing this on the PL-41. It's quite simple.
http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html
PickyEars81
Super Member
I'm just about ready to change the arm.
I really like how that sumiko was basically a drop in but I need an arm with a removable headhsell. Are there any such variants?
I have looked at some other suitable candidates but I want something that will play nice with my mc carts that are not high compliance.
Budget is up to $1000 but I want to spend it wisely.
I really like how that sumiko was basically a drop in but I need an arm with a removable headhsell. Are there any such variants?
I have looked at some other suitable candidates but I want something that will play nice with my mc carts that are not high compliance.
Budget is up to $1000 but I want to spend it wisely.
Last edited:
Pioneer PL41
Well you Audiokarma guys thanks a lot! Look what I brought home today...and I blame you, all of you! And thanks!:thmbsp:
Went to buy a Technics SL1300, supposed to be "minty" and it didn't work. Luckily I had spied another CL listing posted yesterday with two Pioneers, the PL41 and a PL12D II. $75.00 and $50.00 respectively and within a few miles of each other so I dropped on in. The fella had a houseful of tube amps, speakers and horns, and turntables, he also had a baby on the way and a wife that said " clear out that crap!" I love other peoples pregnant wives ( I found my Mirage speakers in much the same way). I had figured to come home with a Technics and maybe a PL12D for grins and ended up with what you see below.
Cover is damaged, piece entirely gone on the side that has the support arm.
The little screw that holds the tone arm elevator at the desired height is gone.
All else is there including the original cartridge and stylus with a point still on it.
I have read some threads about oiling, the thrust bearing issue, tone arm elevator issues, recommendations for cartridges and styli and lots of raves about this deck.I have not yet been able to remove the platter but just read to give the spindle a little knock with a screwdriver handle or some such to loosen it and it should come right off.....
Anyway...pics.
Well you Audiokarma guys thanks a lot! Look what I brought home today...and I blame you, all of you! And thanks!:thmbsp:
Went to buy a Technics SL1300, supposed to be "minty" and it didn't work. Luckily I had spied another CL listing posted yesterday with two Pioneers, the PL41 and a PL12D II. $75.00 and $50.00 respectively and within a few miles of each other so I dropped on in. The fella had a houseful of tube amps, speakers and horns, and turntables, he also had a baby on the way and a wife that said " clear out that crap!" I love other peoples pregnant wives ( I found my Mirage speakers in much the same way). I had figured to come home with a Technics and maybe a PL12D for grins and ended up with what you see below.
Cover is damaged, piece entirely gone on the side that has the support arm.
The little screw that holds the tone arm elevator at the desired height is gone.
All else is there including the original cartridge and stylus with a point still on it.
I have read some threads about oiling, the thrust bearing issue, tone arm elevator issues, recommendations for cartridges and styli and lots of raves about this deck.I have not yet been able to remove the platter but just read to give the spindle a little knock with a screwdriver handle or some such to loosen it and it should come right off.....
Anyway...pics.
Last edited:
What is the original cartridge? Mine says Pickering XV-15, where can I get a replacement stylus for it?
The original cartridge is a Pioneer PLC9 which uses a Pioneer PLN9 stylus
The Pickering XV-15 can be fitted with 5 different stylus with something they called the DCF or Dynamic Coupling Factor, with a different stylus for different applications. There might be some sort of indication by color of the stylus and maybe something like a colored dot or symbol.
Ed Saunders sells a replacement
http://www.edsaunders.com/elliptical.htm
E Bay also has lots including NOS Pickering at Carols Needles.
Vinyl Engine has the Brochure and Owners Manual for EZ download.The part numbers for the styli are in there.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pickering/xv-15.shtml
I also found this review while searching around trying to figure out the stylus/cartridge compliance factor:
Vintage Pickering XV-15/D400 (~$65 used): like the Stanton 680EE, these are moving iron cartridges which are known for their very warm sound. You can find them used on eBay at staggering low prices. Plus, the great thing is that they come with a very nice stylus. If you can find the Pickering with the D750 stylus, you’ve got yourself a great upgrade.
http://www.recordplayerreviews.net/best-cartridges-and-stylus/
I wish my cart had a little brush on it !!!
Last edited:
PL41 Pioneer turntable parts breakdown
I purchased a Service Manual today online and thought I would post a pic from it showing some of the parts. There has been discussion on some PL41 threads about the center shaft bearing and the thrust washer etc. Parts 39-44 show them. This breakdown also shows a tonearm with the lateral weight. Mine has no lateral weight and my owners manual shows my version without the lateral weight. I believe then that this tonearm is for the PL41A/F as the service manual is for the PL41 - PL41A/F
Here are parts descriptions from the service manual for the center bearing and shaft parts.
39- Center Shaft
40- Center shaft bearing
41- Bearing cap
42- Rubber mat
43- Ring
44 Bearing packing
There has been discussion as to what the item number 42 was made of , some have speculated either nylon or delrin perhaps with an indentation for the shaft to ride in. The description states that it is it's rubber.
Hope this helps, I will post it also in the other PL41 threads.
I have just received from Garage A Records a replacement stylus for the original cartridge. I plugged it in and made the adjustments per the owners manual and let her spin. She sounds great.
Now that I know she spins I am making notes on another head shell and cartridge. The table is connected to system #2 with my SX-780 and some Sterling Infinity's SS2005's I picked up for 9 bucks stiffened them up and refoamed them. Don't sound bad but am looking at some Klipsch KG4's.If I add the PL and the Klipsch's system 2 may just become system 1.
The tonearm lifter drops the arm too fast and the adjustment does nothing so I will have to order the fluid for that. In the meantime I am placing the arm on manually. Broke her in with Stevie Ray Vaughn,Mamas and the Papas and Dylans' Desire is spinning now.
I purchased a Service Manual today online and thought I would post a pic from it showing some of the parts. There has been discussion on some PL41 threads about the center shaft bearing and the thrust washer etc. Parts 39-44 show them. This breakdown also shows a tonearm with the lateral weight. Mine has no lateral weight and my owners manual shows my version without the lateral weight. I believe then that this tonearm is for the PL41A/F as the service manual is for the PL41 - PL41A/F
Here are parts descriptions from the service manual for the center bearing and shaft parts.
39- Center Shaft
40- Center shaft bearing
41- Bearing cap
42- Rubber mat
43- Ring
44 Bearing packing
There has been discussion as to what the item number 42 was made of , some have speculated either nylon or delrin perhaps with an indentation for the shaft to ride in. The description states that it is it's rubber.
Hope this helps, I will post it also in the other PL41 threads.
I have just received from Garage A Records a replacement stylus for the original cartridge. I plugged it in and made the adjustments per the owners manual and let her spin. She sounds great.
Now that I know she spins I am making notes on another head shell and cartridge. The table is connected to system #2 with my SX-780 and some Sterling Infinity's SS2005's I picked up for 9 bucks stiffened them up and refoamed them. Don't sound bad but am looking at some Klipsch KG4's.If I add the PL and the Klipsch's system 2 may just become system 1.
The tonearm lifter drops the arm too fast and the adjustment does nothing so I will have to order the fluid for that. In the meantime I am placing the arm on manually. Broke her in with Stevie Ray Vaughn,Mamas and the Papas and Dylans' Desire is spinning now.