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Linear tracking - a myth debunked?

chadnliz said:
So where is the myth and where was it de-bunked? Surely your test of a DL album wasnt your case for this conclusion.
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It only takes one counterexample to disprove a false statement, as any good mathematician or logician knows. The myth that linear tracking arms are not any good, with perhaps some exceptions on the high end, is quite easily debunked.
 
monkeyking said:
Very informative thread. Thanks to everyone who's chimed in.

My experience with the LT is about the same as Sam Cogley's, though I know far less about fixing and adjusting them. (Nothing is less than a lot even with "new math, right?) I acquired one last summer as a throw-in with some speakers. The guy said it didn't work, but I've had no problems with it and have done nothing to it.

It's a Luxman P-406 with a Grado ZF3. It does a great job tracking some wobbly grooves. Niether horizontal or vertical movement seems to give it any grief. It seems to sound a bit less "lively" than the Dual 1228 it sits next to, though that could be a lot of things from cartridge to different pre-amps. I really like it a lot and am tempted by a Technics LT that's been on the CL a couple days.

Mine says it's Tangential Tracking. It's also a belt drive and the arm seems to be independent of the platter in that while the arm is returning home, the platter has already stopped turning.
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The arm drive is seperate from the platter motor, I had one of those Luxman TTs here and was very impressed with the tracking. I have also seen poor implementations where the arm wagged like a dog's tail, but then I have also seen some poorly implemented pivoting arms.

I still prefer my Yamaha PX-2 and PX-3 TTs not only do they overcome the VTA problem but with even my arthritic hands I can adjust VTA on the fly.

I would love to get my hands on a PX-1 but I would also like to win the lottery and the chances are about equal.:D
 
The Revox linear tracking TTs combine the linear tracking principle with a unipivot tonearm. In contrast with, say, the Technics LTs that have a long tonearm with very limited angle of play mounted on a rigid belt driven bridge, the Revox have a unipivot tonearm that is suspended on a moving base.

Sensors on the linatrack assembly detect the tendency for deflection moving the tonearm assembly towards the center of the LP as the record is played. During all that time the tonearm is able to freely move and follow the grooves, even with off center LPs. Of course there's a limit there but the TT is not designed to cope with bad pressings but excell with average+ ones.

The additional benefit of the Revox design is that it accepts a standard cart and offers an ultra low mass tonearm at the same time. The caveat is that it offers one of the most difficult tonearms to replace a cart on.
 
I find pivoted arms more faster and more fun to use -- I don't like having to use the track buttons or advance/return buttons to play certain tracks. It's slow and removes me from the hands on thing that is a big part of vinyls appeal.
And a fair number of the linear arms that I've seen needed cleaning and relubricating since the non air bearing ones rely on lubricants for smooth operation.
At the same time, it does seem to me that there is a cleanness to the sound of the GT 55 I used for a while that was appealing, though, at the same time, the resonant signature of the arm was messier than an non pivoted would be.
I do have to question the assertion that the Zero 100 was blocked from being imported into the US because of flamability issues. Perhaps temporarily, and if so, I bet the plastic piece was in the power section and probably was actually a hazard. But plenty of Zero 100s were imported, and it ran through three models, so the reason it didn't triumph over its competition is not evil lobbying (and who would be lobbying? -- American changer manufacturers weren't exactly thick on the ground by then, and VM or whoever made the changers that went into consoles wasn't remotely in competition with the upper end changers). I think that the zero 100's problems (rumble, unreliability, crappy construction quality and so on) made Duals and Miracords, and then japanese tables look pretty good in comparison.
 
teac4010 said:
Shortly after Garrard's Zero100 was produced, the US blocked any further shipments. Seems there was a plastic piece that would burn in the event of fire. Sheesh, every TT the US has seen since then has been mostly plastic.:thumbsdn:

Could leverage/lobbying been a factor? :D

Regards.
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I do not recall the Zero 100 ever being blocked from sale in the US.

Also, I do not consider the Zero 100 a linear tracking turntable. It has a pivoting tonearm with a "zero" tracking error.

Anyway, linear tracking Vs. pivoting tonearms. Just like belt drive vs. direct; solid state vs. tube; analog vs. digital - there are excellent and poor examples of each.
 
Been extremely happy with my Phase Linear 8000 (see my avatar) aka Pioneer PL-L1000 for almost 30 years now, bought it new in 1980. I have always admired the simplicity of the optical sensing system and the linear motor it uses to drive the tonearm across.
 
ke4jhj said:
I do not recall the Zero 100 ever being blocked from sale in the US.

Also, I do not consider the Zero 100 a linear tracking turntable. It has a pivoting tonearm with a "zero" tracking error.

Anyway, linear tracking Vs. pivoting tonearms. Just like belt drive vs. direct; solid state vs. tube; analog vs. digital - there are excellent and poor examples of each.
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I agree with you about the Zero 100 (and some other pivoted-arm) table(s) that use a similar method to eliminate tracking error. Personally, I refer to these as 'articulated tonearms' though I've never seen that particular nomenclature used elsewhere, however it does seem to me to better describe the type than the term 'linear tracking' which we usually think of as moving the entire tonearm straight across a record.
 
Using a silk purse to carry a sow's ear?

One day back in the 70s when I was to pick up a new release LP, it occurred to me that I would take the LP back home, clean it with my Watts cleaner, gingerly place it on my Zero 100 TT with the Shure V-15 cartridge and play it through my Pioneer SA-9100 and 2 JBL L-100s expecting audio nirvana. What followed was the realization that my LP had been mass-pressed, placed in a sleeve and then a jacket, shrink-wrapped and then boxed into a case. That case would be sent to a warehouse or distribution facility, then loaded on a pallet and via a forklift loaded into a truck on a hot summer day and spend a day or even several days in a hot truck or tractor trailer on its way to my local store. Then with great care :D it would be unloaded into the store, the box would be opened and a teen-aged person would yank it from the box and shove it in a bin!

Perhaps this is why I had to take back the first 3 copies of the Eagles 1st album until I finally got one that wasn't warped! :sigh:

Sometimes it all seemed so crazy to have so much money invested and be at the mercy of the weakest link! :scratch2:

I suspect this was an additional factor for the rapid acceptance of the CD!

But yet to this day, I still have my Zero 100 and my Rabco ST-8. :yes:

(and the SA-9100 and L-100s as well) :thmbsp:
 
niklasthedol said:
I find best potential of sound quality in specific hanging suspended TT's when alligned and adjusted best.

This leaves a problem with most linear trackers.

Here is the soultion to that problem:


1.jpg



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"dolph"
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What's the make of this arm? I'm intrigued and would like to find more info on it.
 
Linear Tracking is not bad! The issue you will find here in AK stated by most people is that in order to properly do Linear Tracking...it's DOG EXPENSIVE! Idealy, there should not be a tonearm, but a carrage directly above the grove. If there is an arm wand like on teh cheeper consumer units of the 80's, there is room for tracking error to occur and that is where you get into trouble. The Clearaudio air bearing and the Revox are the BEST 2 that I can think of as they are so darn close to the cutter design that you truly are "linear Tracking".

I'm sure someone will want to step up and defend there Consumer Linear Table made of lovely plastic...oh sorry, TNRC as Technics called it, but they were what they were, techy devices that were overly complicated and at the end of the day, honestly did not sound any better than a pivoted tonearm properly set up did. I owned a couple of Technics and Pioneer's, they were neat, but they really were not showing me the true bennifit of Linear Tracking so I went back to the pivoted arms.

OK, let the SAVE THE CLOCK TOWER begin....

Joey
 
koseltri said:
Was the Luxman you observed the 406, or the PX-101? A PX-101 will be arriving here shortly, always wanted one. I would like a Yammie PX-2, my lottery lump would be the Pioneer PL-L1000s big brother, the PL-L1.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PLL1/PLL1.html
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Must have been the 406 as it was exactly like the one in the picture. It tracked the record just like the minute hand on a clock, we all know they move but you really can't see it move, at least not like the second hand.
 
koseltri said:
... I would like a Yammie PX-2, my lottery lump would be the Pioneer PL-L1000s big brother, the PL-L1.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/PLL1/PLL1.html
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You don't HAVE to win the lottery to get a PL-L1. You just have to be very lucky, or maybe to have a little Karma stored up from who-knows-where. I literally found my PL-L1 sitting in the road(!), and when the owner showed up, I had to pay less than $400 for it! One minute I didn't own one and never had, and about one minute later... I did! :banana:

{Sorry for the banana dance, but I never get tired of celebrating that monster... it is one of my very favorite audio finds, up there with the Infinity RS IIs I rescued from the trash. Those unexpected little thrills that just "make your day", and continue to give pleasure day after day after day, afterwards! :D}

Yes, they are hard to find, virtually impossible outside of Japan. I've never seen one on eBay, but they show up on Japan Yahoo on rare occasion. HiFiDo would probably find you one within a period of some months, faster if you were lucky, if you asked them to and wanted to pay a market price. I think you could get one for something in the $1-2,000 range, especially if you don't need it to be in perfect condition.

My "lottery lump" --short of the Rockport Sirius III, for which I'd have to win a "Powerball" lottery(!)-- would possibly be the PX-1, the big brother of that PX-2! Short of that, a PX-2 would be a delightful find, too! :yes: But there are other (pivot arm) turntables up there in desirability, too. Among them, Yamaha GT-2000, Micro Seiki SX-5000, Exclusive 10 (or P3a), Nakamichi Dragon, Thorens Reference, etc... But the PX-1 would be up around the top of my current list of linear tracking "wants". I know someone who might sell me a Goldmund Studio (not Studiette, but Studio) cheaply... but cheap for that might still get rather expensive. That's another "lottery lump" one, I suspect.
 
Joey 1127: What about warps? The shorter the arm, the larger the change in tracking angle the cartridge goes through, and that can be audible. Obviously one shouldn't be playing horribly warped records, but many records have slight warps. How do the really stubby linear arms handle that? My impression is that some manufacturers deliberately go with longer linear arms for this reason.
 
My JVC has a fairly short arm, and it doesn't seem to mind unless the record is so warped that no table would play it properly.
 
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