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Listening to piano music

crouse

crouse

Poorly known member
After finally setting up a dedicated listening space, I discovered something about piano recordings that bugs me. It seems solo piano and the piano in a small group setting are always recorded so that the treble is biased toward the right speaker and the bass toward the left. Since I don't play piano and have never listened to someone play piano while I was sitting behind the piano, this seems odd to my ears. Sort of takes me out of the moment. Simple solution, of course: I just switch the outputs or inputs to reverse the left and right. I'm listening to Keith Jarrett as I type this and switching the left and right makes it seem I'm in the audience. Maybe I would like the treble on right if I could play piano and could therefore close my eyes and pretend to be playing. Funny how little things can throw you.
 
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I notice the same thing about recordings of drum kits. When records are mixed with the drums panned from the drummers perspective it sounds wrong to me. I always prefer it from the audience perspective.
 
I have never switched the inputs but I find when the piano is all over the left, right and center I become distracted too. I listen to Brad Mehldau often and the engineering choices sometime get really annoying. I like when the instrument occupies its own space in a group setting. Solo piano in mono is fine by me! I really like live music and go out often to listen and I want to have that here in my space..
 
A lot of those are done with stereo overheads. Especially grands. A very popular technique is to pop the lid and put a couple condensers or ribbons overhead in XY stereo. One pointing to the lows, one to the highs.
I also prefer that it be a distant recording. Not enough to lose low end resonance but enough to steer away from right/left note exclusion.
 
A lot of the sound also radiates out the bottom of the sound board. I think that is what is missing in most recordings. I've been practicing the piano for 51 years and I don't think it sounds like stereo to me.
 
Pianos good for test if done correctly.

Since most people (non players) recognize the sound of a piano it does make a good musical test for testing equipment, BUT this instrument is a demanding one to do correctly, as noted above.:scratch2:

Mark T.:music:
 
Why don't you flip the 'mono' switch on your amplifier/receiver/whatever?

Seems like that would remove the annoyance you are feeling.

Me, I am listening to Ronnie Aldrich and His Two Pianos. He plays one with each hand. They apparently put one piano on the left and one on the right. Hilarious and fun to listen to.

But if it really bothered me, the mono switch is my friend.
 
VolvoHeretic said:
A lot of the sound also radiates out the bottom of the sound board. I think that is what is missing in most recordings. I've been practicing the piano for 51 years and I don't think it sounds like stereo to me.
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It's a shame, most people don't care enough to extensively mic a grand for the proper sound. I have only seen one setup that had 3 or 4 mono condensers in the various soundholes inside, stereo overhead, and another mono condenser underneath. Some 7 mics. I wish everyone did it that way.
Uprights are much easier but people need to understand that they are two different ballparks. :yes:
 
A piano is NOT a Mono instrument.


It bugs me also, but the opposite, since I play.

on a piano, the bass clef to treble clef should go from left to right.

when its recorded opposite, it really screws me up, and throws me out of the 'moment'.
 
What too many recording engineers don't seem to get is that most acoustic instruments are designed to be heard in an environment, not close mic'ed. I hate when I'm being recorded and someone comes and shoves a mic right on top of the violin. Makes it sound half like a kazoo. Same with a piano. All of those harmonics don't come together to create the true sound of the instrument until you're quite a distance away. A violin doesn't sound right until you're at least ten feet away. The environment is part of the instrument's sound. Grrrr....
 
Ths364 said:
I notice the same thing about recordings of drum kits. When records are mixed with the drums panned from the drummers perspective it sounds wrong to me. I always prefer it from the audience perspective.
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This, and I play the drums.
 
jazzmans said:
A piano is NOT a Mono instrument.
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Well, it certainly isn't a stereo instrument either - so what is it?



fiddlefye said:
What too many recording engineers don't seem to get is that most acoustic instruments are designed to be heard in an environment, not close mic'ed. I hate when I'm being recorded and someone comes and shoves a mic right on top of the violin. Makes it sound half like a kazoo. Same with a piano. All of those harmonics don't come together to create the true sound of the instrument until you're quite a distance away. A violin doesn't sound right until you're at least ten feet away. The environment is part of the instrument's sound. Grrrr....
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In a studio setting, the environment must be created in the gear. The room is usually pretty dull and "environmentless"?
 
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Every concert I've been to where there is a piano the piano is positioned sideways. Usually the pianists right side is toward the audience.

I want to hear a piano recording as if I was in the audience, not sitting at the keyboard.
 
ev13wt said:
Well, it certainly isn't a stereo instrument either - so what is it?





In a studio setting, the environment must be created in the gear. The room is usually pretty dull and "environmentless"?
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Yes, but they do the same schtick in a concert hall as well. That baffles me. I've sat down and listened to individual tracks after a session and the result is often not much like the sound of a violin, sadly. In the studio recording a jingle or something I understand the constraints, but in a hall? Which orchestral recordings get the best string sound and how were they recorded? Yup. I've recorded piano lots of times and usually the best sound was obtained with a bit of careful experimentation at blending the near distance with the the room acoustic. Too much room sound and there isn't enough immediacy for my tastes and attack gets lost, too close and all of the loveliness of the sound gets left behind. How I view things at any rate. Mostly recorded with a single pair of mics relatively close together.
 
ev13wt said:
Well, it certainly isn't a stereo instrument either - so what is it?
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I say its a stereo instrument. The strings are spread across a soundboard several feet wide, and the notes from each string should be somewhat heard emanating from that location on the board. The acoustic chamber of the piano will blur the location of sound from each string but only partially.
Of course with any fixed stereo image, the farther you are from the projected source, the more monaural it will sound.

I as well hear the bass notes on most recording to be off to the left and the treble to the right. I don't mind it too much because it adds to the grand size of the virtual stage, but at the same time it sounds unnatural from the point of view of 'audience' perspective and also because it makes the piano seem like the size of the entire instrument ensemble.
 
MORTIS said:
I say its a stereo instrument. The strings are spread across a soundboard several feet wide, and the notes from each string should be somewhat heard emanating from that location on the board. The acoustic chamber of the piano will blur the location of sound from each string but only partially.
Of course with any fixed stereo image, the farther you are from the projected source, the more monaural it will sound.

I as well hear the bass notes on most recording to be off to the left and the treble to the right. I don't mind it too much because it adds to the grand size of the virtual stage, but at the same time it sounds unnatural from the point of view of 'audience' perspective and also because it makes the piano seem like the size of the entire instrument ensemble.
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Exactly. I suppose whether I enjoy this or not depends very much on what is being recorded, repertoire, expectation etc. If I am listening to a piano concerto and the piano is spread across the orchestra (or worse yet the image varies in width.... don't laugh, I have heard this) it can range from a mite odd to mildly distressing, but if it is solo piano or in some pop recording or such it can be fun.
 
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