Little Dot I+ Headphone Amp Impressions

[33&athird]

I am tempted to try the MKIII, and go all-tube, but it's probably not the most prudent thing to do right now, despite the low price. I have a lot invested in the I+ and I'm very happy with it. Although, the MKIII is compatible with many of the same tubes the I+ uses...

I was tempted as well, but I couldn't think of a reason to have it used as a pre-amp...until I relized my sx-727 had jumpers .

Anyone know what the wait is on these units? ordered from ebay, and he says he'll have them built...but I have no idea how long that would/should/could take. I'm not nervous or anything...just curious. Got the op-amps yesterday...that samerpav guy is pretty awesome:yes:...problem is i've got nothing to put them in:sigh: maybe i'll make up a breadboard:scratch2:.

Edit: thought I should probably add that I have no sense of time (especially right now), so I think i'm probably just imaging its taking longer than i'd think...cabin fever as they say. The feedback on his thing suggest that it will probably show up soon...heres hoping. I'm just excited is all, first headphone amp, first tube amp, I can't wait.

 

[33&athird]

NEVERMIND! it came what a great looking unit:yes: Listening to it now with stock tubes and op-amp, and it sounds fantastic...I'll be sure to try out the other op-amp later, and see what happens.

I'll try to report back later, for now i'm going to enjoy it.

 

[Mr. Lin]

NEVERMIND! it came what a great looking unit:yes: Listening to it now with stock tubes and op-amp, and it sounds fantastic...I'll be sure to try out the other op-amp later, and see what happens.

I'll try to report back later, for now i'm going to enjoy it.

Awesome! No need to rush into the tweaks, IMO - although I shouldn't talk...

Shouldn't this thread be catching on fire or something?

 

[john57]

This is my review of the OPA2107 Op-amp that is a direct plug-in replacement for the standard MC33078 Op-amp that is in the Little Dot 1+. When I put in the OPA2107 I tried it with three different 408A tubes that I have on hand. The GE,WE, Sylvania Gold Brand and finally the Tung Sol. I will write a separate review for the tubes in the 408A family and with the difference with the stock 6JI tube. The Burr and Brown chip OPA2107 has a more balance sound, a dryer sound at the frequency extremes. The bass and the treble sounded more in line with the rest of the frequency band. There that there seems to be a bit cleaner at the expense of the soundstage and not as musical with the stock MC33078 chip. While I compared the different 408A tubes with the two OP-amps MC33078 and OPA2107 I preferred the stock MC33078 Op-amp. The OPA2107 may be a better upgrade to the Grado headphones than the Sennheiser cans due to the fact it may “smooth or tame” the high end just a little bit. I decided to keep the stock OP-amp and finished rolling the chips for the time being.
After listening to the four pairs of 408A tubes, GE, WE, Sylvania Gold Brand and finally the Tung Sol. I will then write about the best of the 408A family of tubes. I am using my Sennheiser HD555 that has the same drivers as the HD595 and my new HD380 headphone listening different types of classical music, symphonic and vocal music I came to a general agreement. My favorite of the 408A is the gold pins GE (General Electric) and it has great transparency, detail and soundstage. My second is the WE (Western Electric) with great sound stage but not to the level of detail with the GE tube. Next was the Sylvania Gold Brand with great detail as the GE but not with the transparency or the soundstage and this is the least musical of the 408A tubes and this version does not have the golden pins. Last the Tung Sol is quite musical but with very high microphonics meaning if someone was yelling in the room the tube will pick it up. Also the tube heaters were very slow to warn up and the filaments barely give any light and there was indication that my Little Dot was under stress and I was not conformable using this tube in my amp. The GE has the lowest microphonics and the WE and the Sylvania close behind. I do not use the tapping test for microphonics which can damage tubes in operation but by a light rubbing the tips. It seems that the tube with the lowest microphonics sound the best for me overall in this case. Here is the picture of my GE “reactor” tube in operation in my Little Dot 1+ amp at this link.

http://s1022.photobucket.com/albums/af348/john5757/?action=view&current=P1000408LargeWebview.jpg

 

[john57]

Sources for the GE408A tubes but not the golden pins one that I was able to obtain.

https://www.tubeworld.com/400a723a.htm
http://www.piexx.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=38

If anyone wants to try the 408A tubes cheaply here is a source:

http://www.tubesandmore.com at just $1.43 per tube.

Since the 408A requires a higher heater voltage you most remember that the jumper for the heater voltage must be moved back if you are switching back to the stock tube. Happy New Year!:thmbsp:

 

[Mr. Lin]

Last the Tung Sol is quite musical but with very high microphonics meaning if someone was yelling in the room the tube will pick it up. Also the tube heaters were very slow to warn up and the filaments barely give any light and there was indication that my Little Dot was under stress and I was not conformable using this tube in my amp.

Thanks for the review John. I'm surprised you didn't really care for the 2107, but of course there are a lot of different variables in our setups, not the least of which is the actual headphones we're using.

If the Tung Sol tube heater filaments are not glowing as brightly as they should, perhaps the tubes are at the end of their life. However, if you're not sure whether they're supposed to glow a lot, it could just be that the design of the tube is such that the filament is partially hidden, so they don't glow as much. It's too bad they're microphonic, mine are quiet. Like I said, the Sylvania gold pins I have are very microphonic, possibly more than any tube I've ever owned, which is pretty annoying.

 

[john57]

Tung Sol tube heater filaments are showing at the top like the WE but not giving much light I do not have another pair to compare to really tell if this is a problem or the way it was made but I decided not to use it. I found that the biggest difference in sound was in switching over to the different family of tube from the stock 6JI to the 408A with the various makes of the 408A second. The 6JI which is part of the EF95 family is a more punchy and edgier tube that may be better suited for rock music and variants depending on ones tastes. The OPA2107 Op-amp may fit better with that tube. My main issue with the stock 6JI was that it made most of the vocals sound wrong and the midrange was not something I would have heard in a concert hall. Instead of trying to find a better EF95 tube I decided to try the WE408 instead, and it turn out to be a good move on my part. I just maybe be more sensitive to certain aspects of sound that I find the 408A tubes in general to be very smooth and least fatiguing and let me heard the music for longer periods. It was a kind of sound that I have not heard in a long time and much different to the sound that I was getting from the Creek amp and the many SS amps that I tired in the past. My Melos using the 6DJ8 tubes has a different but pleasant presentation. I noticed that there some few fine amps using the WE408 tube like the Yamamoto Sound Craft's HA-02 amp, as an example. What is remarkable with the Little Dot 1+ is that even with just two tubes there is still a great amount of options of tubes that you can use in it depending on ones tastes or dislikes plus the OP-amp rollability is like the icing on the cake. What I find more remarkable is that I am spending more time listening to music on CD's that I even did in the past. I have a huge CD collection that I am just getting started to listen to various CD's that I did not have a chance to do so in the past.

 

[Mr. Lin]

What I find more remarkable is that I am spending more time listening to music on CD's that I even did in the past. I have a huge CD collection that I am just getting started to listen to various CD's that I did not have a chance to do so in the past.

In this regard you and I are going through the exact same thing. I'm an lp lover (avatar gives it away ), but since I got the I+ and hooked it up to the Jolida CD player, I've been listening to CDs, lots of them, every night. The Jolida plays a large role in this of course, but the two together - just wonderful.

I've also purchased a LOT of new CDs in the last four months. And now that I'm in a classical-music-only phase, the amazing new music is piling up everywhere.

But back to the tubes for a second. I agree that the 408 family of tubes is very good, and like I said, the Tung Sols I got from Jim are among the best ones. The impression I got reading through that enormous headfi thread is that the 6J1 itself is not the greatest tube. However, other tubes in that family include a few that are top-notch. They are (all NOS) the Russian 6J1P, the Valvo EF95, the Amperex Orange Globe EF95, and the Mullard 6AK5. In the EF91 category, the Valvos I have were also very promising, and I actually intend to go back to them very soon.

It sure is great to have so many options when tube rolling.

 

[33&athird]

If anyone wants to try the 408A tubes cheaply here is a source:

http://www.tubesandmore.com at just $1.43 per tube.

Since the 408A requires a higher heater voltage you most remember that the jumper for the heater voltage must be moved back if you are switching back to the stock tube. Happy New Year!:thmbsp:

Thanks alot!. I think i'll order a couple just to try out

Having a great time witht he little dot:yes: haven't upgraded anything, but may even wait until I get some better headphones. Considering the Koss pro-4AA or Grado sr-60i's:scratch2:...I have a feeling both will outclass my current best; pioneer se-305's. Really enjoying whatever is run through them. Using them right now on the computer, no sound car...but the mobo handles it decently. I don't have a really high-end source anyhow, the cd changer is a sears-roebuck (admiral), haven't hooked it up to that or the receiver, due to difficulty. Plan to fix that soon enough. Sounds great right now as-is, then again, i'm easy to please.

I agree wholeheartedly that there isn't a better amp for the money, both in sound and class.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Thanks alot!. I think i'll order a couple just to try out

Having a great time witht he little dot:yes: haven't upgraded anything, but may even wait until I get some better headphones. Considering the Koss pro-4AA or Grado sr-60i's:scratch2:...I have a feeling both will outclass my current best; pioneer se-305's. Really enjoying whatever is run through them. Using them right now on the computer, no sound car...but the mobo handles it decently. I don't have a really high-end source anyhow, the cd changer is a sears-roebuck (admiral), haven't hooked it up to that or the receiver, due to difficulty. Plan to fix that soon enough. Sounds great right now as-is, then again, i'm easy to please.

I agree wholeheartedly that there isn't a better amp for the money, both in sound and class.

I have the Grado SR-60 headphones, they were the first "good" headphones I bought. If you can swing the ~$70, they're worth it, though I'd recommend getting a pair of the bowl pads as the stock SR-60 pads aren't very good. I use Grado's 325i model now, and they're a whole different animal. While the SR-60 is a bit warm, the 325i is neutral, a little hot on top, and reveals a lot more detail. However - and this should be of significance to you - last year there were months during which I only listened to the 60s, preferring them to the 325i that cost more than three times as much! I think having tubes in the equation now makes the 325i more palatable.

 

[Mr. Lin]

More new tubes...

Just got these in the mail today, Mullard EF91 in original boxes. Rather strange looking tubes. Haven't had a chance to try them yet, but here's a picture:

 

[33&athird]

I have the Grado SR-60 headphones, they were the first "good" headphones I bought. If you can swing the ~$70, they're worth it, though I'd recommend getting a pair of the bowl pads as the stock SR-60 pads aren't very good. I use Grado's 325i model now, and they're a whole different animal. While the SR-60 is a bit warm, the 325i is neutral, a little hot on top, and reveals a lot more detail. However - and this should be of significance to you - last year there were months during which I only listened to the 60s, preferring them to the 325i that cost more than three times as much! I think having tubes in the equation now makes the 325i more palatable.

Thanks for the recommendation, I have been on the fence about it, since the most i've ever put into headphones was $20 for said se-305's. While the pioneers sound nice, especially with the little dot, I always thought they were "toned" or somewhat lacking, I can't really describe it...they sound great with some things and okay with others. Looking into a different set that has not problems, and sound nice on every level...the grado's seem to fit the bill, but the koss seem to be well matched as well. As it stands, i've heard too many good things about the grado sr60's to pass on them, especially at the price point. I can't help but be cheap!, going to college now, so the "deals" in the audio world get my attention. If I save up enough, then i'll look into others, but for now, I think those will fit the bill.

Just got these in the mail today, Mullard EF91 in original boxes. Rather strange looking tubes. Haven't had a chance to try them yet, but here's a picture:

Those are a little odd:scratch2: I think the extra coating inside it to stop rogue electrons from the plate, but i'm not sure...

Looking into getting some of those tube brackets or whatever...didn't really relize what "microphonic" was or what it meant...now I do. Don't have too many problems with it, but any tap adds a little chime on one of the channels. Pretty neat little noise, but unwanted, as well as maybe being bad in the long-run for the tube.

Running a test tonight, as when using it with the xbox 360 through the moniters output, I was getting hum on the right channel. I bet it's because of grounding or the poor feed, just due to hinderance on the signals. Other than that, modern warfare 2 sounded great:yes:. (yeah, its better for music, but playing a game on it had a certain kick that the built-in speakers lack...)

 

[john57]

Well a few more things has happened to me. I just received the Denon 2000 headphone and in the process of running music just a bit to break them in just a bit. Second I have a CAL DAC Sigma ll lying around that I have not used for some time and I will experiment to see if that will give any improvement over the analog output of the M-audio Audiophile 2496 card. If the results are promising I will get a better tube for it which I believe is the 12AX7.

 

[Permanent Waves]

Hey 33, you're looking for cans?

Given your taste for metal/rock I recommend some Grado's, as you are considering.

I recently got the 225i's and love them, though I will warn you that (at least with my headphone amp as of now, an X-Head) that they don't have the most bass. It's punchy and articulate, but I find myself wanting just a bit more sometimes (I'm going to try a budget tube hybrid amp, like the Little Dot 1+ to see if that adds the bass I want).

Also, if you look for headphones used you can get great deals. Check out Head-Fi for used cans (and a lot of info on everything headphone related).

 

[33&athird]

Hey 33, you're looking for cans?

Given your taste for metal/rock I recommend some Grado's, as you are considering.

I recently got the 225i's and love them, though I will warn you that (at least with my headphone amp as of now, an X-Head) that they don't have the most bass. It's punchy and articulate, but I find myself wanting just a bit more sometimes (I'm going to try a budget tube hybrid amp, like the Little Dot 1+ to see if that adds the bass I want).

Also, if you look for headphones used you can get great deals. Check out Head-Fi for used cans (and a lot of info on everything headphone related).

Hey! thanks alot for the head-fi idea, I never really thought of used:scratch2:. Seems like another vote for grado...along with i'm sure thousands of others elsewhere, but I trust this forum far more than amazon reviews:yes:. The bass probably won't be an issue (for one, I like metallica...zing), but i'm not too big into it anyway, any acceptable amount will suit me. I think the little dot 1+ is pretty good in the overall balanced sound department, great everything...though as you thought, the tube does play a factor, and has a certain presense. Looks great too:yes:.

Have you "broken" in your headphones?, from wat i've heard, with grado it can make a big difference...my old pioneers may have improved a little after they had some freeing up, since they don't get much use.

...welp, looks like i'm off to buy some headphones soon. Man, my dad was right to worry about this place, now i'm getting headphone amps, re-capping, thinking about beatles boxed sets, and now headphones, i'm just kidding...the enjoyment I get from this stuff is enough to justify everything I put into it, and there isn't a greater set of people online...

 

[Permanent Waves]

Hey! thanks alot for the head-fi idea, I never really thought of used:scratch2:. Seems like another vote for grado...along with i'm sure thousands of others elsewhere, but I trust this forum far more than amazon reviews:yes:. The bass probably won't be an issue (for one, I like metallica...zing), but i'm not too big into it anyway, any acceptable amount will suit me. I think the little dot 1+ is pretty good in the overall balanced sound department, great everything...though as you thought, the tube does play a factor, and has a certain presense. Looks great too:yes:.

Have you "broken" in your headphones?, from wat i've heard, with grado it can make a big difference...my old pioneers may have improved a little after they had some freeing up, since they don't get much use.

...welp, looks like i'm off to buy some headphones soon. Man, my dad was right to worry about this place, now i'm getting headphone amps, re-capping, thinking about beatles boxed sets, and now headphones, i'm just kidding...the enjoyment I get from this stuff is enough to justify everything I put into it, and there isn't a greater set of people online...

This is a great forum, :thmbsp: but Head-Fi is also :yes: and it has many many "experts" (people who literally own or have owned dozens of cans and amps) on it that will help you out with headphone/amp (and DAC) decisions.

I set out to finally get an amp for my Senn HD-595's and was convinced that I needed new headphones more than an amp (they were right :yes.

So I looked to spend about $200-$300 on a pair of cans (new or used) and looked at a dozen at least before deciding on the 225i's.

Then I saw the X-Head amp in b-stock (a few minor scratches) for about $100 (normally $200) so I jumped on it.

My 225i's sounded good out of my integrated amp's out, but with the X-head they sounded GREAT. My HD-595's also improved with the X-head, but the 225i's just kill them all around.

The funny thing is that with "burn in" the 225i's seem to now have less bass than earlier. They sound tighter/tauter than before, more articulate. That is good, but I wish they had a bit more "punch". And I'm not a basshead (or else I wouldn't have gotten Grado's), but they always sound a bit "thin", even with bass oriented music.

The X-head amp, however, is supposed to be a thin or dry sounding amp, so I figured I'd replace it as I want to try a hybrid anyway. Maybe I'm just spoiled from my speaker/sub set up.

Yea, definitely check out the For Sale section on Head-Fi; there are lots of reputable sellers there (I really should of bought used cans, I'm going to try to with this next amp I think), and if you make a thread telling users what you are looking for you will get a lot of help.

As they say there: "Sorry about your wallet".


EDIT: You might want to check out Alessandro MS-1's, Audio-Technica ATH AD700, or Grado 125i's.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Those are a little odd:scratch2: I think the extra coating inside it to stop rogue electrons from the plate, but i'm not sure...

Interesting, I've never heard that before. Where did you hear/read that?

This is NOT the place to hang out if you need to save money! My college days are over, and I make a modest but decent living right now (consider myself lucky considering what's going on with the economy), but in the past few years, I've been, let's say, encouraged by what I read on AK to put a severe dent in my bank account.

For tube dampers I use and recommend Herbie's Audio Lab. Some are expensive, but he offers a model made of Teflon that I believe is now pretty cheap.

I don't recall how much the SR-60s changed, I believe there was more bass impact after a hundred hours or so. "Break-in files," such as pink noise, frequency sweeps, etc, are recommended, but you shouldn't leave the headphones on with these for more than 2 or 3 hours IMO or you risk damaging the drivers. I've said this before, but the 325i Grados sounded just plain awful when I first got them. Thin, bright, fatiguing. And breaking in headphones can be an extraordinarily long process. They quickly improved, but it was months before they sounded their best, and that was with regular use.

Speaking of spending too much money, I'm really tempted to buy a used pair of Grado RS-1 headphones. Man, that's a lot of money to spend right now, but I'll bet they are sweet!

 

[33&athird]

Interesting, I've never heard that before. Where did you hear/read that?

Right here;
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254593&page=2

That's the second page of a topic on getter flash (that silver stuff at the top of a tube). I don't recommend reading the first page, as it shows off how little knowledge I have .

This is NOT the place to hang out if you need to save money! My college days are over, and I make a modest but decent living right now (consider myself lucky considering what's going on with the economy), but in the past few years, I've been, let's say, encouraged by what I read on AK to put a severe dent in my bank account.

Yeah, ain't that the truth. I drag in money every now and then doing stuff around the house and yard...and most of the stuff I get really isn't that expensive...and on top of that is completely worth it, as everything gets alot of use. I really like head-fi's "sorry about your wallet".

For tube dampers I use and recommend Herbie's Audio Lab. Some are expensive, but he offers a model made of Teflon that I believe is now pretty cheap.

Thanks, I haven't looked for any before, but it seems like they would help:yes:. And i'm still looking at headphones, seems either the sr-60i or sr-80i is the best bet. It makes it very hard to choose when both are great. The funny thing is, i'm sure I could do well with some AKG's or Sennheisers, but I honestly perfer the styling of the grados, they have class...also, they tend to look like the old crystal radio headsets...though I bet they sound better.

~Edit: checking out the alessandro ms-1's...they look like the grados, but apparently sound more neutral, I can only assume it's the same housing as a grado, but a different driver?...they seem nice and are definitly in the running.

On a similar note, I finally had a great moment with the little dot 1+, listening to "Waka jawaka" and now "Hot rats" (Zappa). It sounds cliche, but I heard things i've never noticed before...seriously, it's fantastic. Can't belive I became one of "those" people, but I swear its true, Getting a real kick out of all this new layers of detail, even with my middlin' headphones. Only sore spot (literally) is the clamping force of these pioneers is like a vice, but with a new set of 'phones I don't think that'll be much of an issue.

 

[Permanent Waves]

the 325i Grados sounded just plain awful when I first got them. Thin, bright, fatiguing. And breaking in headphones can be an extraordinarily long process. They quickly improved, but it was months before they sounded their best, and that was with regular use.

Speaking of spending too much money, I'm really tempted to buy a used pair of Grado RS-1 headphones. Man, that's a lot of money to spend right now, but I'll bet they are sweet!

That's funny; right out of the box my 225i's sounded great, though the highs did tone down after awhile. But they weren't fatiguing and always had some warmth, in fact probably more muffled bass than they do now, so if anything they are thinner/dryer/crispier now. They are supposed to be less bright than the 325i's though, one reason I choose them over the 325i's.

I haven't looked at the RS-1's too much but I bet they rock! However for that price (even used) they can't possibly rock that much! I'm sticking around the $300 and under (used or new) self imposed price limit on all my audio components indefinitely. :yes:

I really like head-fi's "sorry about your wallet".

It's funny at first, and then it's not. :sigh: But really you just have to control yourself. I've done just fine compared to many over on Head-Fi, and I have just about all the money I wish to spend on audio components. But I'm just not the type of person who needs "the best" anything and I can't personally justify having it even if I wanted it (not in this world :sigh.

~Edit: checking out the alessandro ms-1's...they look like the grados, but apparently sound more neutral, I can only assume it's the same housing as a grado, but a different driver?...they seem nice and are definitly in the running.

I'd really advise you to start a thread over on Head-Fi about what your listening preferences are, what amp you have, and what headphones you are considering. You'll get lots of advice and recommendations, most of which will be good.

I've never owned the 60i or 80i (my 225i is my first Grado and my second "real" can after my Senn HD-595), but from what I read they are great for the money. So are the MS-1's.

So for around $100 you can get a good pair of cans. But great? I think you need to look more around $200 for great (and some audio snobs say at least $300 and up). I know that's more money than you think (or want) you can spend, but the thing is with audio gear there are two things to remember: first, that you can buy used from people who have not abused their components and get great deals, and second that you can resell your own gear and get much of your money back. So for one initial (painful maybe) investment you can enter a certain level of SQ and when/if you get tired of what you bought, you can turn around and resell what you have and get 3/4's of the money back you will need to buy something similar or just a bit better.

The problem with audio gear is, for me, over choice. But this is a good problem to have, I means I'll be experimenting for years to come (within a certain price range) with all sorts of gear! :thmbsp:

Btw, Grado's are not the most comfortable of cans. I have no problem with the "scratchy" ear pads (I don't find them such), but until I bent the frames they would really put pressure on my ears and hurt. Now they are fine, but they never feel like they are sitting well on my ears. 6/10 for comfort.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Right here;
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254593&page=2

That's the second page of a topic on getter flash (that silver stuff at the top of a tube). I don't recommend reading the first page, as it shows off how little knowledge I have .

I think everyone is probably too busy chuckling about the flash drive comment to notice you. I don't think that guy who mentioned the "rogue electrons" things knows what he's talking about, I think he might just be theorizing. Hopefully someone will come along and clarify. I know about getters, and getter flash, but I've never owned a tube that looks like the Mullards. Actually, I'm probably going to be starting a new thread in the tube forum about tube getters.

That's funny; right out of the box my 225i's sounded great, though the highs did tone down after awhile. But they weren't fatiguing and always had some warmth, in fact probably more muffled bass than they do now, so if anything they are thinner/dryer/crispier now. They are supposed to be less bright than the 325i's though, one reason I choose them over the 325i's.

Not surprised to hear this at all. I've read many times on AK and headfi that the 325i and 225 are very different. During my initial use of the 325i I was seriously considering selling them and getting the 225. However, over a great deal of time the 325i model has proved to be a fantastic one, and it did balance out for the most part.

BTW, the SR60 does hold up very well against the 325i. In other words, I think, considering the price, the SR60s are great headphones.