"Lobing effect" in Magneplanars?

[k9gardner]

I've just been reading about the problem with placing bookshelf speakers intended for vertical use on their sides. The "lobing effect" caused when the listener moves off-axis and the sound doesn't arrive at the same time from the two (or three) now out-of-alignment drivers.

But this makes me wonder about Magneplanars and their known narrow "sweet spot." Moving off-axis with these causes the same kind of effect.

It would take a hell of a lot of wall space, but what would happen if the Maggies were to be suspended horizontally? Anybody ever try it? Maybe I will.

Or ok, let's say this is impractical. I wonder, why didn't they design them with the tweeter section above the woofer section rather than aligned alongside of it?

 

[sfox52]

I don't know about suspending Maggies horizontally, but there are those that like them pointing at each other with the backs toward opposite walls, kind of near field with the listening position in between.

 

[ehoove]

I don't know about suspending Maggies horizontally, but there are those that like them pointing at each other with the backs toward opposite walls, kind of near field with the listening position in between.

Like the new avatar my friend. If you think the WAF is an issue with Maggies, try that alignment! I have enough trouble with my "room dividers"
Regards,
Jim

 

[JoeESP9]

The tweeter section acts as a "quasi" line source for smaller Maggies. From the 3.7's (current production) up they all have a line source true ribbon tweeter.

 

[epifanatic]

I couldn't imagine mounting my MGIIIa's horizontally. Might be fun though.

 

[ehoove]

I couldn't imagine mounting my MGIIIa's horizontally. Might be fun though.

Then you would have to get a height adjustable chair if you really think the sweet spot is that small. LOL
Regards,
Jim

 

[GregDunn]

One of the things you have to do with Magneplanars is to point the tweeters in the right place to minimize the effects of lobing. Depending on the model and tweeter position, setting them so that they "cross" either in front of or behind the listener makes a substantial difference in the perceived directionality. After much experimentation, my 1-C system has the tweeters crossing in front of me about 2 feet, and with the other panels positioned appropriately, there's a fair-sized spot where no lobing is audible.

IMHO the important things to remember when setting Maggies up is to keep any panels from being parallel to any wall (and certainly as far as practicable from the front wall), and try the tweeters inside as well as outside depending on how wide your room is. They are definitely finicky, but once you have them positioned properly for your room they should have a comfortable sized listening area where the sound is consistent. I'd rather have to move the speakers inch by inch during setup than not be able to move my head during listening.

 

[wmgwizard]

My MGIIIa's are about 8' apart, 30" from the back wall, tweeters to the outside and toed in so the intersection is about 3' in front of my listening position.

I can sit on either end of a 90" couch and sense no significant change in the staging/imaging.

Took several hours of inch by inch relocation but it was time well spent.

YMMV

 

[doctor fuse]

I've just been reading about the problem with placing bookshelf speakers intended for vertical use on their sides. The "lobing effect" caused when the listener moves off-axis and the sound doesn't arrive at the same time from the two (or three) now out-of-alignment drivers.

But this makes me wonder about Magneplanars and their known narrow "sweet spot." Moving off-axis with these causes the same kind of effect.

It would take a hell of a lot of wall space, but what would happen if the Maggies were to be suspended horizontally? Anybody ever try it? Maybe I will.

Or ok, let's say this is impractical. I wonder, why didn't they design them with the tweeter section above the woofer section rather than aligned alongside of it?

Funny, I was just over at a buddy's place, and because of two young daughters and fairly limited living room space, he mounted his new Magneplanars on a high ledge up on the wall, horizontally. He says he isn't totally happy with the sound, as the sweet spot is very small and in a bad spot (arm of the sofa).

He wanted me to listen, and although they sounded good, there was not much 3D effect, or real imaging.

My Alternate Audio planars are only about a foot from the back wall, but I get pretty good imaging from many positions outside the sweet spot.

 

[E-Stat]

As Joe indicated, the idea is to provide a line source for optimum imaging and coupling to the room.

Horizontal mounting might work fine for non-critical applications like in a bar.

 

[GregDunn]

Yes, the idealized vertical line source should provide a very wide dispersion pattern. The issue with most Magneplanars is that there are multiple sources handling a similar frequency range. My 1-C system, for example, has two fairly wide panels and one narrow panel, separated horizontally, reproducing the octaves between approximately 500 Hz and 2 KHz (the crossover region) at levels high enough to permit interference. A wavelength at 1 KHz is about a foot, so the dimensions are right for constructive / destructive patterns to form at certain angles. The trick is to position the panels at angles so that the area where you listen is tolerably free of those patterns. The ear is not very sensitive to small level changes with frequency (like a reduction in amplitude slightly off-axis), but it is easily able to hear peaks and nulls caused by driver interaction.
I suspect one advantage of the modern MG series is that the panel positions are closer and can be positioned accurately by the factory so that the interference is displaced from the crossover region where it would cause more problems. The ones I've heard seem to have fairly uniform patterns and yield a respectable listening area.

 

[WaynerN]

I don't know about suspending Maggies horizontally, but there are those that like them pointing at each other with the backs toward opposite walls, kind of near field with the listening position in between.

I do this with 3 sets of speakers that I own, merely because I don't have enough front wall space to put them. The stereo effect is really good, but I do only use them for FM listening (casual listening).

 

[WaynerN]

I have the Martin Logan reQuests. I actually have found the correct toe-in angle so that anyone sitting on my 3-person couch can get really good stereo imaging. You need a big room, the speakers have to be fairly far apart and the toe-in angle needs to be aggressive. I am sure the same technique can work for maggies. Take the spikes off of them and start moving them around until they, the room and the listeners are happy.