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Looking at a DIY sub: Shiva, Dayton...

A

AaronG

Member
I have been looking at HT subs in the $300-350 neighborhood and as would be expected I have not been able to find too many pre-built subs that are all that great. I had the Velodyne CT-120 and VRP-1200 on my list, but I am not thrilled with some of the smaller things regarding the build quality of each cabinet (thin walls, no bracing, etc).

So I am exploring the idea of building my own HT sub cabinet. The two subs on my list right now are the Adre Shiva 12 and the Dayton Titanic MKIII (a la PE). The Shiva is $179 msrp and a good plate amp from PE would be $125ish, getting me in the $300 ballpark before build costs. The Dayton Titanic MKIII is $350 shipped, which would require assembly. I am fine with assembly and would enjoy it actually. I have built many a sub box for car audio, so that would not be an issue if I went with the Shiva.

So my questions are:

1. Do any of you have experience with either sub? I have heard a Shiva and was impressed, but have not heard a Titanic, only read people comment highly on the sub in terms of cost-perfomance ratio.

2. What plate amp would be a good match for the Shiva? I see several on PE's site, but my initial guess would be one of their 250W plate amps. Maybe some of you can recommend a specific plate amp that matches this sub.

3. Are there any other suggestions out there? Maybe I can do better for the $300-350 with a used sub? My gut feeling tells me I can get more sub for my money through a Shiva or Titanic, but I may be wrong.

Thanks for any help.
 
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Sorry I can't be of too much help here, but your thoughts mirrored by own a few months ago. I have bought an Adire DPL-12 driver (similar to the Shiva) with the Adire PR-15 passive radiator, and found a 300-watt Keiga plate amp on Ebay. The Adire site had the designs for recommended boxes on their web site, and as soon as I finish a room addition, my first audio project is going to be to build this sub-woofer. I look forward to hearing about your progress as I am pretty sure you will get to yours before I get to mine.
 
Thanks - I got some feedback from the Adire tech team and they suggested an Apex Jr or Apex Sr amp for their Shiva, so another possible amp to match their sub. I contacted them to get some more feedback.
 
I seen what appeared to be large, at least 3ft cubed thick 1" boxes at a local pawn. Had a 12" shiva in each of them, hmm :scratch2:
 
My friend had a, I think it was around 85 litre ported, downfiring box, Shiva sub for a while to supplement his Kit281 hometheater system. It sounded good, but always proved problematic to him when it came to response, output, and overall sound quality.

The Shiva seemed to bottom way before it came to satisfactory levels in not too large of a room and didn't dig all that deep. The combo also sounded very bloated and boomy, though a Behringer (sp?) Feedback Destroyer may have been able to fix that. He had to settle for sealing the port with a foam stress ball to tighten up the response to listenable levels with music.

I currently have a DPL-12/PR-15 Adire alignment combo in my HT (scrounged together on the cheap thanks to a free driver from same friend) that I power with the old Adire AVA-250 plateamp. Adire botched my order on the PR and didn't send the proper mass loading kit and thus forced me to approximate the washers I needed to add to the clay. The result is a sub that is flat to14 Hz and can put out pretty decent output even lower in my room :thmbsp: (I love deep bass, but not bloated one-note wonder 50 Hz bass.) Unfortunately, it seems to spend more time shaking the floor than making actual sound and what sound there is is too slow for my tastes. So, I only use it with movies and use the Watkins in my Infinity Quantum 2s to take care of the low end for my Maggies when it comes to music. Now that's good bass.

By way of quality, the DPL-12 is a good looking driver and is of superior quality to the Shiva, yet similarly priced. It can be used in a box or in a dipole setup. However, I have heard of at least one instance where the mass-load piece behind the dustcap has come loose and rattled a bit. With mine, one of the tinsel leads thumped against the cone at moderate levels at first, causing an unpleasant noise. However, I was able to fix this by bending it out a bit, though I may have limited the excursion doing this.

At any rate, if this sub is to be for movie watching, you might want to go check out Home Theater Forum and diyAudio where there are a great many threads about the two drivers you mentioned and the DPL-12 as well. There are also other cheap sub projects to be found there that may be more to your liking.

If you want good and cheap and have the place to do it, I've heard only rave reviews on Infinite Baffle subs that can use the drivers you're looking at. For IB subs, the place to check out is the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled.

Good luck in your search for the right sub and please keep us updated as to which route you go.

- JP

PS: Bolly, if they're priced decently, grab those Shivas. You could have some pretty decent stereo subs to supplement your bass weak (sarcastic) AR-9s.
 
Firm recommendations would depend on:

How big a box you (or your sisgnificant other) will tolerate

How big a room you need to fill

Do you prefer a sealed or ported design

What you are willing to spend, which you have already addressed.

Parts Express has a forum on its site where you can ask about various drivers and sub construction in general. Several posters ion that forum have stated that they prefer the Quatro driver to the Titanic, although it is much less expensive.

I have built one sub, which I enjoy and recommend. I used a 15"' Quatro driver from Parts Express. Most builders who use that driver use the 240 or 250 watt amps from PE. That's whatI was going to do, but the 500 watt amp went on sale for $100 off.

I have a degree from a major university and have been a sivul cervant for the past 29 years and, despite all that, I was still able to build a sub that I find more than satisfactory, so you should have no problem.
 
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hey Charivari, that's what I was thinkin! :whip: oh yeah, wanted $200cdn each. I already woulda bought them, but the wife would KILL me! :D
 
Hmm, $200 CDN sounds about fair market value if it's just the drivers in the boxes. With plate amps, it becomes a good deal. I think. Since I got my DPL-12 setup, I've not followed the sub scene, so I'm no longer up to date on prices. 3 ft cubed sounds like just the right size for the Shivas to get you output and depth. Sure you can't convince the wife that they'd make great end tables? (Maybe claim that they're superioir martini shakers?)

- JP
 
Jack Keck said:
Firm recommendations would depend on:

How big a box you (or your sisgnificant other) will tolerate

How big a room you need to fill

Do you prefer a sealed or ported design

What you are willing to spend, which you have already addressed.
Click to expand...

Size is not a major issue, although 2 cu ft would be a "good" max size for a box.

Sealed vs ported: I honestly don't have a preference, although most say to put the Shiva in a sealed box for better results, for instance. I know a sealed box will be smaller in general but a ported sub will require less power to reach full output but will be larger than sealed, in general. So those are some of the several considerations involved.

I will check out the references you and Charivari suggested. Thanks for the info so far!
 
not possible, at all...I'd be dead!

there was no amps in them, a pair of acurus came in with them...they're long gone now though. Anyone interested in these, they're located in Barrie, Ontario. Decent lookin cabinets too. :yes:
 
Sorry 'bout that AaronG, I neglected to mention that the DPL-12 is another one of Adire's offerings. It would appear that Adire has dumbed down their website substantially, so I cannot find the page they used to have with the specs on this driver. I think it has a resonant frequency of ~16 Hz, an Xmax of around 15 mm, and dual voice coils. It's effectively an updated Shiva, so far as I'm concerned. It was designed for dipole use (less noise, better looks, tougher, more oomph, lower reach, XBL^2,etc), which really upped the in-box performance.

AdireDPL12rear.jpg


I think it's a pretty good buy, being the same price as the Shiva, though the efficiency is different.

- JP
 
I currently have the Titanic 10" in a home theatre set up, and am more than pleased with the results. Fairly small box, decent WAF (much more than the big box sub I had been using :) ). I have played some music on it, and it seemed to do a decent job. Seems to have quite a large excursion, haven't bottomed it, but then I don't play it as loud as some might.

For its reasonable price it strikes me as a good deal. As far as building, you merely stuff the cab and mount the driver and amp.
 
I read some threads on the PE forum and seems that many people are also pleased with the Dayton Quatro subs, as well as the Titanics. I am intrigured by the idea of putting together my own sub, so I am leaning toward this direction.
 
I made my on sub a few months ago from MDF that is screwed and glued together. I covered them in a velvet type carpet nd put a glass top on top to make it look like a coffee table. I use a poweramp to drive the woofer which has a dual voicecoil. Each of the voicecoils is driven buy a channel of the amp.

Look http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38285 for the thread.
 
Looks nice man! I fortunately have experience building sub cabinets, but primarily for car audio. I would either wrap the box in some type of plywood or use a textured spraypaint with a laquer finish. It would more than likely be latter to keep the cost down.

I am thinking of taking a 240W plate amp and matching it with a Dayton Quatro 12" sub - the total cost would be around $200 before building supplies, which is not bad at all. I could grab a used Velodyne, but I am really intrigued by building my own sub cabinet for our home.

I have heard many good things about this combo, more with the 15" sub than the 12". I don't want the output a 15" sub would give, at least not in this current room. Maybe down the road in a dedicated HT room.
 
AaronG,

As you may know already, subs DIY better than any other speakers. They're fairly simple and aren't too picky about the cabinets so long as the volume is right and there is enough bracing. Since you're bent on DIY, I highly recommend you haunt the diyAudio forums for a while and even post the questions you have here, over there. Trust me, you won't regret it -- unless the guys over there talk you into a monster setup with multiple Adire Tumults, but that'd only be a regret for your wallet.

As was previously mentioned, your room size and geometry is very important by way of choosing subs and so you'd be well advised to include such info when you ask these sorts of questions. Will my DPL-12 setup get 14 Hz in other rooms? Most likely not, the specs would imply only 20 Hz with usable output to 16 Hz -- but my room combined with my messing up and possibly adding to much weight to the passive radiator has resulted in this, imho, impressive reach.

Don't write of 15" subs just because you feel you don't need the output. If you're not too space constrained, 15s offer far more. Simply put, a loafing 15" is preferable to a 12". If the output is too much for you with a 15", you can always drop the gain, but if a 12" is not enough, you're stuck with it. Plus, if you do get that seperate room that you desire, you'd need to build a new one to fit your needs, which means more money.

However, this is for movie effects subwoofers, if you need this for music, 12" seem to be slightly more musical in your price range. Everything is a tradeoff. Still, a 15" Adire Tumult or Dayton, or whatever is the flavor of the month at diyAudio, thrown into a sonotube enclosure with a spare receiver -- one channel per voice coil as previously mentioned -- will give you a lot for very little outlay.

- JP
 
You couldn't pay me to deal with the small time, low professionalism, back yard company like Adire. Having said that, here are two Titanic drivers I am using for my dual DIY, acoustic suspension sub woofers. Parts Express... Prompt, professional, quick delivery.
 
WildWest,

Why do you feel that way about Adire and other small companies? I kind of like being able to call the company up and talk one-to-one with the person who designed the driver I'm interested in. It sure in heck beats talking to a secretary, or having to rely purely on emails to a salesperson. You can find Dan Wiggins (head dude of Adire) on a number of forums ready and willing to discuss any issues one may have.

Low professionalism? Well, they sometimes screw up because it's a few people trying to do a lot, but they overall quality is better because they're a group who are in it for the audio and don't rely on employees who are only in it for a job. I think you should do some more research on them before you draw your conclusions. This
small time, low professionalism, back yard company
Click to expand...
has produced the XBL^2 technology that is being licensed by a great many of your prefered big namers.

I guess I just prefer something made by a few people who care about their product than some big, assembly-lined 'box-er-up, ship-er-out, and fuggetit' company.

Titanic does produce some cheap drivers that are good for the money, but have you tried emailing the designer to discuss possible cabinet designs and have him/her review said designs to see whether they'd work or not?

- JP

Edit: I'm not attacking and am trying not to be defensive. I'm just the kind of guy who'll hit the corner Mom and Pop grocery where I can know the owners on a first name basis over Walmart with the nameless kiddies in blue vests.
 
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Charivari said:
I think you should do some more research on them before you draw your conclusions. I guess I just prefer something made by a few people who care about their product than some big, assembly-lined 'box-er-up, ship-er-out, and fuggetit' company.
.
Click to expand...

More research? And you already know that I haven't? What, by my comment? Anyway no sweat, I can understand how you have misunderstood me as I was blunt.

I have first hand experience in dealing with ummmm ohhh what's his name there at Adire? Anyway, when my wife attempted to get drivers from him late last year it was a nightmare that ended with my wife literally in tears. She was trying to surprise me with drivers. You should have heard the horror story as she explained trying to deal with this guy, kids screaming in the background, his total lack of attention to her. (Mind you, my wife is no whimp. She ran a friggin lumber yard for years. She can hang) She had to keep calling and reminding and calling, whew! THEN he calls, gets ME on the phone and BOOM. The driver surprise my wife planned is ruined. SHE TOLD HIM previously it was a surprise! She worked so hard at it too. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Did he call to offer a discount or do SOMETHING in an attempt to make it right like my small company would have? My comopany would have bent over backwards to fix that PHUCKUP! Oh yes, I am the President of a small business, local corporation. I know all about "Mom and Pop". No he calls back after a month or so and all he has to say is "Hey man, still looking for any drivers?". Phuck no, we are done pal!

Yes, I also prefer dealing with the small guy. After all, that's exactly what we are here at my company. But when it comes to getting the product out the door and having a professional image and infrastructure. I find that for sub drivers you can't beat the Titanic. Most of the mom and pop type sub driver companies is a crap shoot for service depending on how busy they are or if they EVER had any real business training. It's not just about making a hell of a product, it's customer service too.

Actually, the original poster could make some GREAT sub woofers with many of the products mentioned here in this thread. They are all good performers and proven to be so. I just thought to add my two cents to so that they could see other parts of the picture and make up their mind. Myself, I love a thread that has people commenting with actual experiances good or bad... :yes:
 
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