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Low-power vintage gear.

thunderroad

thunderroad

Life begins at 140 mph.
I know that pretty much everyone here would love to own a nice assortment of the totl vintage receivers & integrated amps from folks like Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, etc. But, I thought I would start this thread, to share my love of my low-powered vintage gear & How musical it is!

I am not really a "collector" per se, of vintage gear, but seem to be more of an accumulator. I still own my first receiver a Pioneer SX-626 (27w/ch.), but over the years I seem to have accumulated a few more pieces of low-powered vintage gear as well: a Marantz 2220b receiver (20w/ch.), a Yamaha CA-410II (25w/ch.) integrated amp, a Technics SA-80 receiver (15w/ch.), etc.

What I have learned over the years is that when this gear is matched up with good quality 2-way speakers they perform wonderfully well. But I have also stepped on a few landmines soundwise. I have tried all of these components on my 1971 era Pioneer CS-R500 speakers & for the most part they have all performed reasonably well, with the exception of the Yamaha. The Yamaha was a terrible match to the old West Coast Sound Pioneer CS-R500's, but especially the metal diaphragmed mini-horn tweeter & midrange. The result was much much too bright! But, the 3-way CS-R500 & also my 3-way Klipsch Heresy's was a little too much speaker for the little 15-20w/ch. amplifiers. But those little amps always performed well on some of the older 2-way speaker systems I have.

So, what has been your experience with your vintage low-powered gear? I would love to hear about your setup: what gear you are using, what source components you use, what speakers you've tried, what worked the best, & most of all, what kinda music you listen to.
 
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Unless you have a very big room or very inefficient speakers, most people will only use low power. I have a 70 wpc amp and an 8 wpc amp. I listen to both of them through some efficient Klipsch speakers and neither amp actually works hard. The 70 wpc amp gets bit of an edge when listening to vinyl as my home brew phono stage had pretty low output.
 
Here's my single ended Rotel EL84 tube receiver which claims to produce 10 watts per channel. Realistically I think it might make half that. But that's no problem when driving high efficiency speakers like the ones in the back ground.

PB220016.jpeg
 
For me, the biggest issue is that, for many manufacturers, lower power has been tied to lower functionality and lower quality. Take a Yamaha CA-410 vs a CA-1010. In addition to fewer watts, 410 has fewer inputs, no pre-out/amp-in jacks, Simpler controls, less robust circuitry, and lower spec components. This makes it less desirable and less expensive.

I listen to a whole bunch of low wattage systems with music all over the map. On my deck is use a 5 watt Fostex amp and Minimus 7 speakers. My son has a Yamaha CR-240 connected to ADS L-400 and an Infinity sub. Our bedroom has a parade of amps driving some Tannoy Reveal speakers. Kitchen is a 20 watt Class D Amp driving JBL ceiling speakers. All sound fine for their purpose. I’ve also built a couple First Watt diy amps which, at 25 watts, sound really great, and I intend to build them all.

I don’t listen to my music really loud, so a 90dB speaker on a 25 watt amp will give me nearly 99dB at my listening position, and that’s way louder than I care to listen.

The upshot is that there are high quality, good sounding amps out there with low power. They are just overshadowed by the TOTL DEVICES, and by the low quality, low power ones. It takes a little more effort to find them.
 
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My SX-626 was fine with Heresy speakers. Both gone now.
My taste in music can be more demanding than the little receivers can handle. People say the small 20 watt stuff sounds as good as the 50 plus watt stuff from the same line. I disagree.
 
quiet said:
People say the small 20 watt stuff sounds as good as the 50 plus watt stuff from the same line.
Click to expand...
Is that because of the lower power, or because lower power amps were built to a lower standard? I’ve heard some glorious sounding 8 watt tube amps.
 
Sansui 1000x to Boston Acoustics a70 and Sansui 800 to Boston Acoustics a60. I do not listen to my music loud and I find these combinations very pleasing.
 
Semanon said:
Is that because of the lower power, or because lower power amps were built to a lower standard? I’ve heard some glorious sounding 8 watt tube amps.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with the build quality of the low power receivers. Most of my speakers are acoustic suspension. And the little amps don't like then. They get tubby real quick. Maybe it has something to do with low damping.
Is damping tied to available power?
 
Semanon said:
Is that because of the lower power, or because lower power amps were built to a lower standard? I’ve heard some glorious sounding 8 watt tube amps.
Click to expand...

There is a limit to what a low power amp can effectively drive ..
And it isn't just about sound levels that can be achieved with a given speaker although that's part of it ..
For us folks who prefer the sound of Acoustic suspension drivers with their long throws and resultant high EMF forces, the smaller amps simply lack the ability to properly control the woofer ..
Small power can be good as long as it's not overcome by the load that it's attempting to drive ..
 
Poultrygeist said:
Here's my single ended Rotel EL84 tube receiver which claims to produce 10 watts per channel. Realistically I think it might make half that. But that's no problem when driving high efficiency speakers like the ones in the back ground. [QUOTE}

Your receiver looks similar to my Rollcor RTA-630 which has most people agreeing it was built by the same people as Rotel. With a pair of 10" Sony three way speakers it will fill my 20 x 20 garage with a reasonable sound level for listening. Never mistake it for my 100-250 wpc amps but it does a reasonable job of playing music.
Click to expand...
 
quiet said:
People say the small 20 watt stuff sounds as good as the 50 plus watt stuff from the same line. I disagree.
Click to expand...


Back in the 70's, each brand typically had a "house sound". So often the lower power amps sounded a whole lot like their higher powered versions. They just had less features on them. But they were built pretty much just as good (at least in terms of manufacturers like Marantz). At lower volumes, there's probably no way I could have been able to tell the difference between my 2226B and my 2285B.

As for OP's question, I've found receivers like the Technics SA-300, Marantz 2226B, etc. all sound fantastic. They even drove my set of Pioneer BS-22's fantastically as well. Any sane person (read: non-collector!) would be perfectly happy with that pairing for a long while.
 
My Marantz 2226 does do a good job. My 2215 wasn't up to the task. But it was nice till it ran out of steam.
 
I've had a handful of low to mid-power vintage receivers: Marantz 2216B, Marantz 2245, Pioneer SX-650, Pioneer SX-737, Sherwood S-7250CP, and Sansui 4000. Those range from 16 to 45 watts.

I've paired them with Original Large Advents, AVID 102a, JBL 2800, and JBL J2050 speakers. The OLAs are the least efficient of the bunch, but I like them best. My second choice would be the AVIDs.

The big problem I run into is being able to drive the OLAs well. I've found that my Marantz receivers sound great but they don't have quite enough power with the OLAs for my taste. The other receivers drive them fine. The Sansui 4000 is my most recent purchase and it drives them really well. It sounds so good, it seems to have replaced the Marantz 2245 as my main.

(For reference, I mostly listen to 1970s original vinyl and a few local radio stations here and there. The tuner on the Sansui is pretty dang sweet.)
 
thunderroad said:
I know that pretty much everyone here would love to own a nice assortment of the totl vintage receivers & integrated amps from folks like Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, etc. But, I thought I would start this thread, to share my love of my low-powered vintage gear & How musical it is!

I am not really a "collector" per se, of vintage gear, but seem to be more of an accumulator. I still own my first receiver a Pioneer SX-626 (27w/ch.), but over the years I seem to have accumulated a few more pieces of low-powered vintage gear as well: a Marantz 2220b receiver (20w/ch.), a Yamaha CA-410II (25w/ch.) integrated amp, a Technics SA-80 receiver (15w/ch.), etc.

What I have learned over the years is that when this gear is matched up with good quality 2-way speakers they perform wonderfully well. But I have also stepped on a few landmines soundwise. I have tried all of these components on my 1971 era Pioneer CS-R500 speakers & for the most part they have all performed reasonably well, with the exception of the Yamaha. The Yamaha was a terrible match to the old West Coast Sound Pioneer CS-R500's, but especially the metal diaphragmed mini-horn tweeter & midrange. The result was much much too bright! But, the 3-way CS-R500 & also my 3-way Klipsch Heresy's was a little too much speaker for the little 15-20w/ch. amplifiers. But those little amps always performed well on some of the older 2-way speaker systems I have.

So, what has been your experience with your vintage low-powered gear? I would love to hear about your setup: what gear you are using, what source components you use, what speakers you've tried, what worked the best, & most of all, what kinda music you listen to.
Click to expand...

Big issues here. Low power needs super efficient (and expensive if you want full range sound) not to mention large loudspeakers. Unless you're listening on headphones or very low volume background music applications in small rooms. Want to play loud, high energy music, and want full low bass, better be prepared for huge speakers which live in corners and easy to drive.
 
MegaGroove said:
I've had a handful of low to mid-power vintage receivers: Marantz 2216B, Marantz 2245, Pioneer SX-650, Pioneer SX-737, Sherwood S-7250CP, and Sansui 4000. Those range from 16 to 45 watts.

I've paired them with Original Large Advents, AVID 102a, JBL 2800, and JBL J2050 speakers. The OLAs are the least efficient of the bunch, but I like them best. My second choice would be the AVIDs.

The big problem I run into is being able to drive the OLAs well. I've found that my Marantz receivers sound great but they don't have quite enough power with the OLAs for my taste. The other receivers drive them fine. The Sansui 4000 is my most recent purchase and it drives them really well. It sounds so good, it seems to have replaced the Marantz 2245 as my main.

(For reference, I mostly listen to 1970s original vinyl and a few local radio stations here and there. The tuner on the Sansui is pretty dang sweet.)
Click to expand...

The OLA is not built for low powered amplifiers. They need anywhere from 45 watts/channel to as much as 100 watts/channel or more for best results. Ideal for them is something like a McIntosh MC 2100/2105, or Crown DC 300A. Sansui 4000 is what I drive mine with. Acoustic Suspension likes power. Low power is more like a Klipschorn, Cornwall, Altec Lansing Voice Of The Theater, or JBL Hartsfield type application.
 
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