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LP-120 Saga: Well This is Embarassing

Dncg4charlie

Dncg4charlie

Member
Hello, all. Log time lurker, first time poster. The day has arrived when I step out of the shadows to ask for advice to an embarrassing problem.

So I’ve had a Technics SL-1900. Threw a Grado Blue stylus on the F3+ cart and have been mildly happy with the results for a few years. Long story short, in a lapse of judgment I ordered an LP-120 thinking it was an SL-1200. In an effort to salvage my mistake, when it arrived I thought I could just remove the preamp and be happy. I also replaced the head shell/cart with the SL-1900’s and Grado.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but it doesn’t sound as good as the SL-1900. It’s hard to do a true A/B test to confirm though given my current setup. Anyway, now I’m thinking of selling both and getting a U-Turn Orbit with the acrylic platter and 2M Blue. Mostly, it looks fantastic and seems dead simple. Especially with the 2M Blue, it seems like a good step up in music quality also, which is really my primary focus.

I’ve read every LP-120 vs U-Turn Orbit thread on this site and it just hasn’t convinced me what to do in this scenario. Any feedback?
 
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I don't see your location in your post or profile, but if you live in an area with local, specialist hifi dealers, I would recommend visiting them to hear for yourself what turntables, if any, they have that might outperform yours (a good dealer will be happy for you to bring in your own equipment for comparison purposes, and may be able to arrange an in-home demonstration). If you don't have a local dealer, all you can go by is other people's opinions, such as reviewers and forum members. I like the LP-120 for its features, and I don't find it at all unpleasant, but it doesn't sound as good to me as a Pro-Ject Essential II. This excerpt from Michael Fremer's review is in line with what I've heard, though I've never heard a U-Turn turntable:

"In no way does this turntable compete sonically with a more costly belt drive design such as the $399 Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, or even with the less expensive U-Turn Orbit in my opinion though those (especially the U-Turn) can’t begin to compete with the Audio Technica’s build quality, feature set and ease of use. It all depends upon for what you are looking."
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/audio-technica-lp120-usb-turntable-shames-plastic-competition
 
The LP-120 stock has a non functioning anti-skate, you need to mod it to get it to work. A vintage technics that's working well is a very nice TT that sets the bar fairly high. Most likely higher than a basic U-turn. In fact, I believe someone on this forum AB it against a BOTL belt drive technics, and concluded the Technics was very close to the U-turn's performance. The U-turn like most modern entry level TT also suffers from very poor user friendliness of controls and adjustments.
 
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Dncg4charlie said:
Hello, all. Log time lurker, first time poster. The day has arrived when I step out of the shadows to ask for advice to an embarrassing problem.

So I’ve had a Technics SL-1900. Threw a Grado Blue stylus on the F3+ cart and have been mildly happy with the results for a few years. Long story short, in a lapse of judgment I ordered an LP-120 thinking it was an SL-1200. In an effort to salvage my mistake, when it arrived I thought I could just remove the preamp and be happy. I also replaced the head shell/cart with the SL-1900’s and Grado.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but it doesn’t sound as good as the SL-1900. It’s hard to do a true A/B test to confirm though given my current setup. Anyway, now I’m thinking of selling both and getting a U-Turn Orbit with the acrylic platter and 2M Blue. Mostly, it looks fantastic and seems dead simple. Especially with the 2M Blue, it seems like a good step up in music quality also, which is really my primary focus.

I’ve read every LP-120 vs U-Turn Orbit thread on this site and it just hasn’t convinced me what to do in this scenario. Any feedback?
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Yo do a first mistake, compare AT-LP120 with SL-1200. Most people buy AT-120 with same mistake and this is exactly what Audio Technica as manufacturer want to do for this TT. So, to be precise for all time, AT-LP120 USB is NOT SL-1200 and IT WILL NEVER BE. Ok, thats it about comparision between that two turntables but it`s not seems that AT-LP120 it can not to be nice and decent turntable with more then you think that it can to be. I will take some liberty and be free to say that AT-LP120 USB TT may to be prety close to SL-1200 or in some cases can to be better sounding TT then SL-1200. All of SL-1200 users can be free to demand me with facts.
Now lets start...
I also have AT-LP120 USB and SL-1900 as you have. :) Maybe you dont believe but my AT-LP120 sounds great and it have better sound then SL-1900 with same cartridge. Why it is so, because that I spend, i think, more time to fix AT errors on that TT then AT spend own time to create this TT.
You need to cut antiskate spring almos at half, to be precise, you need to cut this spring for 3/8 on length and leave 5/8 to be for antiskate.
Second what you need to do is to damping all TT from inside.
Third what you need to do is to use screwdriver and stiff bearings on tonearm.
Four thing is to properly align tonearm because whats the AT do wrong measurements on own turntable. eg. Pivot to spindle is not 214.5mm then is 214.15mm.
And last thing is if you want to do this, that you can to remove internal preamplifier and change it with some better preamp. Also you need to remove slip mat and take some better, rubber or cork mat and change cartridge with some better cartridge.
On DIY section on AK you have nice threads for AT-LP120 USB TT.
 
I own a U-Turn Orbit and love it. It is simple and sounds great. U-Turn customer service is the best in the audio industry. I own a 2m Blue that came with a walnut-plinthed model and it is a wonderful combination. It's everything the DJ-style decks aren't. It's minimalist, simple, quiet and beautiful to look at. I would not hesitate to buy another one.
 
OP if you had done some research here on AK prior to purchasing the AT LP-120 you would of seen some red flags that would of told you that the AT-120 is a cheap knockoff made to look but certainly not to perform like just about any Technics turntable and certainly not up to the high standards of a SL-1200Mk2. The Uturn is ok but again if the SL-1900 is performing well it will be a step backwards. None of todays new entry level tables come close in performance or build quality to any of the better vintage tables from around 40 years ago, today it would probably cost about $1,000 to build those same tables. As suggested the best investment is a Grado stylus/cartridge upgrade to the SL-1900.
 
majick47 said:
OP if you had done some research here on AK prior to purchasing the AT LP-120 you would of seen some red flags that would of told you that the AT-120 is a cheap knockoff made to look but certainly not to perform like just about any Technics turntable and certainly not up to the high standards of a SL-1200Mk2. The Uturn is ok but again if the SL-1900 is performing well it will be a step backwards. None of todays new entry level tables come close in performance or build quality to any of the better vintage tables from around 40 years ago, today it would probably cost about $1,000 to build those same tables. As suggested the best investment is a Grado stylus/cartridge upgrade to the SL-1900.
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Thanks! I read reviews until I was blue in the face but I am not familiar enough with specs to say that one TT looks better than another on paper. I think my biggest downfall was not asking for a direct comparison from the get-go. I guess I figured than a new AT would be at least on par with a low-end Technics from ‘78.
 
A number of companies are taking advantage of the record/turntable revival and flooding the market with what amounts to imposters and buyers both older and new are buying these tables based on positive Amazon reviews of the blind leading the blind. Back in '78 just about every small town in the US had one dedicated audio store specializing in turntables/receivers/speakers, large cities had multiple full service stores and high end audio shops. Competition between the Japanese mfgs was fierce, they were selling by the boat load to the US every week keeping prices low and quality high. Tables like the AT are now made in China/Taiwan with poor design, components, materials and minimal to no quality control. Competent new Japanese turntables will run at least $1,600.
 
majick47 said:
A number of companies are taking advantage of the record/turntable revival and flooding the market with what amounts to imposters and buyers both older and new are buying these tables based on positive Amazon reviews of the blind leading the blind. Back in '78 just about every small town in the US had one dedicated audio store specializing in turntables/receivers/speakers, large cities had multiple full service stores and high end audio shops. Competition between the Japanese mfgs was fierce, they were selling by the boat load to the US every week keeping prices low and quality high. Tables like the AT are now made in China/Taiwan with poor design, components, materials and minimal to no quality control. Competent new Japanese turntables will run at least $1,600.
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Wow, I honestly have just been taking the “vintage turntables are better” argument with a grain of salt for years. I assumed these were the same people who thought everything was better “back in the day,” without actually thinking critically. The historical context is very interesting. Thanks again!
 
The specs tell the story. Unless the manufacturers were lying, most vintage direct drive tables have wow and flutter measurements less than .03% an signal to noise ratios greater than 70dB. The best of the sub $500 modern tables may get close-ish on SnR, but usually have wow and flutter around .1%. whether or not you can personally hear that is up to your ears, but spec sheet wise it's a knockout in favor of the vintage tables.
 
The big issue you get into with old turntables is quite simply they are old. Some things don't age well, others simply need a little TLC to run right again. There is always a chance of irreplaceable parts failing though, and I don't just mean electronics. Chips are often obsolete but honestly most of that stuff lasts very well. its things like plastic gears or other mechanical items that just haven't been made in decades that can be an issue.
 
The U-Turn Orbit sports a S/N ratio of -79. Made in America from American parts using American labor. Perhaps the self-annointed golden ears can hear the difference between the Orbit's .125% and the Japanese DD numbers from the 1970s, but I speculate that almost none of us can hear that difference. I'll take the new unit, built in America, with a warranty and outstanding customer service, over the sea of old turntables.
 
I would guess that close to 50% of the posts on this forum are from users experiencing problems keeping their old turntables working. There are plenty of us who find joy in our modern turntables and hate the idea of bringing an old, dusty, smoke-damaged second-or-third-hand machine into the house. I look on the local CL and shudder at the garbage on there. No thanks.

gadget73 said:
The big issue you get into with old turntables is quite simply they are old. Some things don't age well, others simply need a little TLC to run right again. There is always a chance of irreplaceable parts failing though, and I don't just mean electronics. Chips are often obsolete but honestly most of that stuff lasts very well. its things like plastic gears or other mechanical items that just haven't been made in decades that can be an issue.
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DavidTT said:
The U-Turn Orbit sports a S/N ratio of -79. Made in America from American parts using American labor. Perhaps the self-annointed golden ears can hear the difference between the Orbit's .125% and the Japanese DD numbers from the 1970s, but I speculate that almost none of us can hear that difference. I'll take the new unit, built in America, with a warranty and outstanding customer service, over the sea of old turntables.
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Just nitpicking, but there was an article a while back where U turn themselves stated that 80% of the Orbit was made with American sourced parts. The motor, for example is actually made in China.

Edit:
Even though that's the case, it wouldn't stop me from buying one, if I was in the market for a new table like that. Their customer service alone would be a major selling point.
 
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Dncg4charlie said:
I read reviews until I was blue in the face but I am not familiar enough with specs to say that one TT looks better than another on paper. I think my biggest downfall was not asking for a direct comparison from the get-go. I guess I figured than a new AT would be at least on par with a low-end Technics from ‘78.
Click to expand...
Specifications really don't tell much about how a turntable sounds; I think you really need to listen for yourself to find out. Thanks for adding your location information. Being in Phoenix, you have several hifi shops available, with products from Music Hall, Pro-Ject, and Rega represented between Esoteric Audio and Arizon HiFi. They should be able to demonstrate their products to you in direct comparison with what you own to see if you hear a difference you feel like paying for. U-Turn offers a 30-day return period, so if you buy from them and what you have sounds better, you could return the U-Turn for a refund.
 
jrtrent said:
Specifications really don't tell much about how a turntable sounds; I think you really need to listen for yourself to find out. Thanks for adding your location information. Being in Phoenix, you have several hifi shops available, with products from Music Hall, Pro-Ject, and Rega represented between Esoteric Audio and Arizon HiFi. They should be able to demonstrate their products to you in direct comparison with what you own to see if you hear a difference you feel like paying for. U-Turn offers a 30-day return period, so if you buy from them and what you have sounds better, you could return the U-Turn for a refund.
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I actually live right next to Arizona HiFi. I think I’ll head over this afternoon ;)
 
OK, about vintage tables being soooooo needy of TLC, hogwash. If you purchase a basket case for dirt then you get what you pay for, and many here go into that knowing full well the price meant some work was needed. So the fact many members here are looking for advice on getting a vintage table back to snuff is irrelevant.

If you go into it looking for pristine vintage tables, again you get what you pay for. Over the past few yrs I've purchased half a dozen vintage tables on eBay, all arrived intact and performed flawlessly. All are still functioning as designed, even the fully automatic tables, good build quality will usually show itself.

This is not to denigrate any of the new entry level decks offered today, but when I can purchase decks that were anything but entry level in their day for the same coin..........?
 
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