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LP-120 Saga: Well This is Embarassing

DavidTT said:
I would guess that close to 50% of the posts on this forum are from users experiencing problems keeping their old turntables working. There are plenty of us who find joy in our modern turntables and hate the idea of bringing an old, dusty, smoke-damaged second-or-third-hand machine into the house. I look on the local CL and shudder at the garbage on there. No thanks.
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DavidTT said:
The U-Turn Orbit sports a S/N ratio of -79. Made in America from American parts using American labor. Perhaps the self-annointed golden ears can hear the difference between the Orbit's .125% and the Japanese DD numbers from the 1970s, but I speculate that almost none of us can hear that difference. I'll take the new unit, built in America, with a warranty and outstanding customer service, over the sea of old turntables.
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Hey I like the American made by enterprising college students spiel just like the next guy. I found out that my local audio store had a U Turn table on display, so I hopped in the truck to go check it out.

What I found is a table that had a decent fit and finish for its price point. Whose belt fell off when you hit the start button. The tone arm looked and felt like a repurposed chopstick. And since its the upgraded model cost about $350. I listened to it, and it was no great shakes. Better than a Crosley I thought.

Until Crosely released this. And now I am not so sure.

Crosley-C10A-MA.jpg


Now I am not saying its a great table. But for the $315 you can buy it for, I am not sure a U turn is better.....than a Crosley. Wow, who thought I would ever type that.

Now as far as them old tables go. I bought this one this week. Almost 40 years old, but shipped from Japan. I think I will take this second or third hand table over a U Turn. A N Y D A Y.

TechnicsZ.jpg

But you say that is from Japan. No fair. Ok I guess this one is at least third hand, and came from Craigs List. It's not stinky though.

DenonZ.jpg

I will keep my smelly old tables.

PS If you want to see the one next to it. The drive unit is 40 years old too.

SP10C (3).JPG



Regards
Mister Pig
 
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DavidTT said:
I would guess that close to 50% of the posts on this forum are from users experiencing problems keeping their old turntables working.
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True enough, given the purpose of this forum. That does not mean that 50% of vintage turntables have issues, though.
 
The genuine Technics SL-1200GR is now available. Sure, it's $1600, but it's a brand-new high-quality direct drive turntable that will last for thousands of hours if not abused. If you are looking for that style of turntable, that would be the one to buy.
 
Mister Pig said:
Hey I like the American made by enterprising college students spiel just just the next guy. I found out that my local audio store had a U Turn table on display, so I hopped in the truck to go check it out.

What I found is a table that had a decent fit and finish for its price point. Whose belt fell off when you hit the start button. The tone arm looked and felt like a repurposed chopstick. And since its the upgraded model cost about $350. I listened to it, and it was no great shakes. Better than a Crosley I thought.

Until Crosely released this. And now I am not so sure.



Now I am not saying its a great table. But for the $315 you can buy it for, I am not sure a U turn is better.....than a Crosley. Wow, who thought I would ever type that.

Now as far as them old tables go. I bought this one this week. Almost 40 years old, but shipped from Japan. I think I will take this second or third hand table over a U Turn. A N Y D A Y.

View attachment 1083682

But you say that is from Japan. No fair. Ok I guess this one is at least third hand, and came from Craigs List. It's not stinky though.

View attachment 1083692

I will keep my smelly old tables.

PS If you want to see the one next to it. The drive unit is 40 years old too.

View attachment 1083699



Regards
Mister Pig
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Ah, fantastic. Ok, point taken in full. How much were those beauties? The guy at the HiFi shop here has nearly convinced me to drop a chunk of change on a ProJect Classic SB Superpack with the Sumiko cart. How would these stack up? Or are we now talking apples and oranges?
 

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Dncg4charlie said:
Ah, fantastic. Ok, point taken in full. How much were those beauties? The guy at the HiFi shop here has nearly convinced me to drop a chunk of change on a ProJect Classic SB Superpack with the Sumiko cart. How would these stack up? Or are we now talking apples and oranges?
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I am a pragmatic pig, with an income limited by working as the farm foreman. Running a barnyard isn't the best paying job, but I get a lot of free perks. Actually over the years I have owned a lot of modern tables, so I am an equal opportunity vinyl-o-phile. I can find a table I like in any style, belt drive, idler, direct drive, modern, or vintage. So I am not a geezer going "back in my day...."

I had a Project Xperience SB here for awhile, and its a decent table. I like the Project arm a lot, although its internal wiring has delicate cartridge clips and they tend to fall off. But it is a nicely built arm, so nice that companies like Linn and Oracle buy it, upgrade it, and use it on their entry level tables. But the motor in that Project is no great shakes, the chassis is OK but not exceptional, same with the bearing. The table IMHO is meant to look like a classic belt drive table like a Linn LP 12 or various Thorens, and perhaps a VPI CLassic 1. But it costs less, and the cost savings come from less than stellar parts, minus the arm. It's a nice looking table, but its got no chops compared to serious modern affordable tables.

For that kind of money and current production I would look at a store demo or B stock VPI Prime, or a traded in Scout. Actually I think the Clearaudio Concept is a nice table for the money. There is a Marantz version made by Clearaudio that is worth looking at too.

But as I said I am a pragmatic pig, and I do shop the used market a lot. So you could find any of those tables on places like Audiogon or USAudiomart, or a dealer who takes trade ins. Thats how I would shop, but that is just me.

As far as the tables I listed, well they aren't cheap. But if you are lucky and kick over a few rocks, you might find one at a reasonable price. But even new, those tables were never inexpensive, although in the dark days of analog there were folks who bagged them at killer steal prices. I was not one of them. My opinion on direct drive tables at that time was pretty close minded, and I felt that a modern belt drive was superior due to improved engineering, machining techniques, and modern materials. I have altered my view on that. I still don't care for most consumer direct drive tables, but the pieces that were near TOTL offerings from these companies, ones intended for studio or broadcast work, are exceptions that can sound remarkably good. But this is not a revelation, there have been people in the analog world who spoke highly of the SP 10 MK II and III(good luck buying that one) and the DP 75/80 for years, I just chose to be skeptical. My skepticism has cost me money. I remember when I could buy these drive units for $500 each and being refurbished. The SP 10 MK II are now about $1200 to $1400 for the drive unit alone, minus plinth and arm.

Everyone of us in the analog world has to find our own path. And my way is not the right way for anyone but myself. I agree with a lot of people on this site, and not with others. And not everyone agrees with pigs. You ought to hear them discuss BBQ sauces. New and modern may be the right choice for you. Modern and pre-owned might be the right choice. Vintage and restored could be it for others. And yet others here take pride and find joy in restoring and reclaiming all kinds of tables, some classic and some inexpensive and humble. That is the awesome thing about analog and the rich history of vinyl. There is something for everyone in this hobby, and all you have to do is find out what is right for you. Best of luck with your analog journey my friend. It might behoove....oink snort grunt oink chuckle snort....you to draw on the knowledge of forum members and perhaps glean an idea or two from their experiences, mistakes, and observations. Just a thought.

After all, I am just a simple pig. We like good food, soft hay, and warm sun. If you want a different opinion go talk to the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens, because fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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Eric Lloyd said:
I'd say that your SL-1900 is a great deck. Why replace it? A cartridge upgrade might be a better use of funds if the rest is still working fine.

As for the AT LP-120, if you are in for a little tinkering you might find it a nice starting point. Check out this thread for some great tips and suggestions there. http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/audio-technica-at-lp120usb-super-mod-thread.656811/
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Honestly, it's a mix between aesthetics and sound quality. It's only my second standalone turntable (the first being a crappy Teac, preceded by an old console TT AM/FM tuner and an all-in-one TT/tape deck from my youth) and I don't have any local resources to compare my system to others. Reviews were only getting me so far and I wanted something that looked shiny and new. I'm going to stick with the SL-1900 for now and save up for a decent mid-level turntable in the future :)
 
Dncg4charlie said:
Honestly, it's a mix between aesthetics and sound quality. It's only my second standalone turntable (the first being a crappy Teac, preceded by an old console TT AM/FM tuner and an all-in-one TT/tape deck from my youth) and I don't have any local resources to compare my system to others. Reviews were only getting me so far and I wanted something that looked shiny and new. I'm going to stick with the SL-1900 for now and save up for a decent mid-level turntable in the future :)
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Why not get a nice vintage Kenwood?
kenwood_kd_770_d-3.jpg
 
Dncg4charlie said:
. . . I don't have any local resources to compare my system to others. Reviews were only getting me so far and I wanted something that looked shiny and new. I'm going to stick with the SL-1900 for now and save up for a decent mid-level turntable in the future :)
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Sounds like a good plan, but it's a shame that your local dealers can't accommodate your audition needs. At least in my years in the hobby, at least some stores in my area have been happy to let customers bring their entire systems into the listening room to compare how different component changes, or even interconnect and speaker wire changes, might effect system performance. Home demonstrations are also available (though sometimes via borrowing a floor sample with a deposit left with the dealer). I've had numerous products in my home for comparison tests (Linn preamps, Jolida and Rogue Audio integrateds, Vandersteen and Castle speakers, Rega turntables, Grado and Dynavector cartridges and phono stages). It's hard for me to comprehend trying to make a purchasing decision without being able to first hear what I'm getting, or to at least buy mail-order on a trial basis (which is how I ended up with Audio by Van Alstine amplification).
 
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Grenadeslio said:
Why not get a nice vintage Kenwood?
View attachment 1084221
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Haha, I wish I could respond with any knowledge about that TT. If this forum has taught me anything so far it’s that my knowledge is considerably more limited than I’d thought, haha. That being said: aesthetics, man! I tend to lean more toward mid-century modern than the DJ-looking design of many of the turntables out there. I know it sounds shallow but I’m pretty sure there’s a sweet spot where I can get the looks and the brains ;)
 
The answer to your question then is the U-Turn, which works well and doesn't look like a piece from 1977. Take a look at the genuine hardwood plinth models. They are gorgeous. I'll reiterate what I noted earlier and that other posters conveniently disregard all too often, which is that U-Turn offers the best customer service you may ever receive, period. I'm talking about Saturday evening emails to U-Turn being answered that same evening by one of the founders of the company. They have become somewhat famous to U-Turn customers for their incredible and generous service.



Dncg4charlie said:
Haha, I wish I could respond with any knowledge about that TT. If this forum has taught me anything so far it’s that my knowledge is considerably more limited than I’d thought, haha. That being said: aesthetics, man! I tend to lean more toward mid-century modern than the DJ-looking design of many of the turntables out there. I know it sounds shallow but I’m pretty sure there’s a sweet spot where I can get the looks and the brains ;)
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DavidTT said:
The answer to your question then is the U-Turn, which works well and doesn't look like a piece from 1977. Take a look at the genuine hardwood plinth models. They are gorgeous. I'll reiterate what I noted earlier and that other posters conveniently disregard all too often, which is that U-Turn offers the best customer service you may ever receive, period. I'm talking about Saturday evening emails to U-Turn being answered that same evening by one of the founders of the company. They have become somewhat famous to U-Turn customers for their incredible and generous service.
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I do really love the look of the U-Turn as well as their customer service and domestic assembly. However, it seems that it would be a lateral move or possibly a marginal upgrade from my current SL-1900, no? I have spent a lot of time thinking I’d just make modest incremental upgrades over time but that sounds like a tremendous hassle and possibly expensive.

I want to get a U-Turn, but I need to be convinced that it’s worth it. I’m sure I could hot rod it as I go, but again, how is that better than springing for a $1600 ProJect Classic SB Superpack in the long run?
 
jrtrent said:
Sounds like a good plan, but it's a shame that your local dealers can't accommodate your audition needs. At least in my years in the hobby, at least some stores in my area have been happy to let customers bring their entire systems into the listening room to compare how different component changes, or even interconnect and speaker wire changes, might effect system performance. Home demonstrations are also available (though sometimes via borrowing a floor sample with a deposit left with the dealer). I've had numerous products in my home for comparison tests (Linn preamps, Jolida and Rogue Audio integrateds, Vandersteen and Castle speakers, Rega turntables, Grado and Dynavector cartridges and phono stages). It's hard for me to comprehend trying to make a purchasing decision without being able to first hear what I'm getting, or to at least buy mail-order on a trial basis (which is how I ended up with Audio by Van Alstine amplification).
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Gah. I know. This place is a little boutique shop that specializes in tube audio. Super nice and knowledgeable, but I don’t think I’m their target audience. They did, however, pour me a glass of bourbon and let me listen to Stan Getz and Leonard Cohen in their $300k+ listening room. So that was cool ;)
 
DavidTT said:
The answer to your question then is the U-Turn, which works well and doesn't look like a piece from 1977. Take a look at the genuine hardwood plinth models. They are gorgeous. I'll reiterate what I noted earlier and that other posters conveniently disregard all too often, which is that U-Turn offers the best customer service you may ever receive, period. I'm talking about Saturday evening emails to U-Turn being answered that same evening by one of the founders of the company. They have become somewhat famous to U-Turn customers for their incredible and generous service.
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I have been lucky that I enjoy the look of a "DJ" turntable. Of recently manufactured turntables, the Technics SL1200 MK2 is interesting. I bought mine new, and KAB USA has done a bit of work. Kevin (K of KAB) has exceptional customer service, a turntable design that has a long history, and high level testing to back up impressive specs for an entry-mid level turntable.

Customer service is available for most every turntable that is purchased new. Additionally, if you purchase a turntable from AudioKarma's Barter Town, customer service is available for most every turntable purchased.
 
Dncg4charlie said:
Hello, all. Log time lurker, first time poster. The day has arrived when I step out of the shadows to ask for advice to an embarrassing problem.

So I’ve had a Technics SL-1900. Threw a Grado Blue stylus on the F3+ cart and have been mildly happy with the results for a few years. Long story short, in a lapse of judgment I ordered an LP-120 thinking it was an SL-1200. In an effort to salvage my mistake, when it arrived I thought I could just remove the preamp and be happy. I also replaced the head shell/cart with the SL-1900’s and Grado.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but it doesn’t sound as good as the SL-1900. It’s hard to do a true A/B test to confirm though given my current setup. Anyway, now I’m thinking of selling both and getting a U-Turn Orbit with the acrylic platter and 2M Blue. Mostly, it looks fantastic and seems dead simple. Especially with the 2M Blue, it seems like a good step up in music quality also, which is really my primary focus.

I’ve read every LP-120 vs U-Turn Orbit thread on this site and it just hasn’t convinced me what to do in this scenario. Any feedback?
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You can always recover from your mistake by getting real Technics SL-1200G. Yes, they are back in production.
 
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