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Luxman L-430 Recap / Overhaul

Ya I know the geography of Australia and cities etc.. have also read up on the people and have answered a few other posters from aus. here. Used to watch the news but need to go back when nothing on net tv .. Love the aussie football.. not the soccer so much.. but the rugby is good to.. motor sports etc.. when I can get it on a feed free. Local news is a bit rare live but time diff maybe.

Ya know I think some boards were lightly sprayed with a very light wax to prevent oxidation or just good production parts. If it tells your speakers what to do?? sounds great? enjoy mate.
 
Ya know I think some boards were lightly sprayed with a very light wax to prevent oxidation or just good production parts. If it tells your speakers what to do?? sounds great? enjoy mate.

Your'e right about the wax. At first I could not work out what the gunk was around some component legs, but it melted when I de-soldered the parts which was a give away. Certainly seems to have done the job!
 
Hi All,

I have been living with the recapped Luxman for a few days now. As I said at the end of my main post, the amp sounds great, fabulous tight and punchy bass. BUT, I have discovered that this is only true once the amp has warmed up.

I have on a few occasions now powered up the amp and started listening immediately, whilst the Luxman 'Warm-Up' indicator is still on. Previously (before the recap) this did not seem to affect the sound at all, but I have found that following the recap the initial output from the amp has WAY too much bass signal. The bass is boomy and almost muddy, and makes me want to reach for the tone controls, it overpowers the rest of the music. However, once the 'Warm-Up' indicator has gone out and the amp has been running for, I don't know, 10 minutes maybe, the bass becomes really tight and punchy, but still overpowers the rest of the music a little, but it does sound great.

What could be causing this? Which of the replaced capacitors might be responsible? The new 18,000uF Nippon Chemi-Con KMH Filter Caps perhaps? Letting the amp warm up is no big deal, and I could live with that, but it has me wondering what I have changed that has caused this change in behavior?

Thanks for any input,
Trevor
 
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Hi All,

I have been living with the recapped Luxman for a few days now. As I said at the end of my main post, the amp sounds great, fabulous tight and punchy bass. BUT, I have discovered that this is only true once the amp has warmed up.

I have on a few occasions now powered up the amp and started listening immediately, whilst the Luxman 'Warm-Up' indicator is still on. Previously (before the recap) this did not seem to affect the sound at all, but I have found that following the recap the initial output from the amp has WAY too much bass signal. The bass is boomy and almost muddy, and makes me want to reach for the tone controls, it overpowers the rest of the music. However, once the 'Warm-Up' indicator has gone out and the amp has been running for, I don't know, 10 minutes maybe, the bass becomes really tight and punchy and does not overpower the rest of the music, it then sounds great.

What could be causing this? Which of the replaced capacitors might be responsible? The new 18,000uF Nippon Chemi-Con KMH Filter Caps perhaps? Letting the amp warm up is no big deal, and I could live with that, but it has me wondering what I have changed that has caused this change in behavior?

Thanks for any input,
Trevor
I am looking over what work has been done....But I would 1st remove the 18,000uF Nippon Chemi-Con...Do you still have the Original Caps?
 
I am looking over what work has been done....But I would 1st remove the 18,000uF Nippon Chemi-Con...Do you still have the Original Caps?

Thanks mate. Yes, I do still have the original Nichicon's. They both measured pretty well also at about 12,500uF each (rated at 15,000uF)
 
Hello again everyone,

Well, I have spent an interesting and educational day working on the Luxman again.

As I described above I had found the the L430 seemed very bass heavy following the recap, especially before it had adequately warmed up (which it never did before). I spent some time this morning and afternoon listening closely to the system using music that I knew well and was very familiar with. I found that in fact, although the bass settled down a bit after warm up, the bass was still a lot 'fatter' and punchier than it had used to be. Once warmed up it lost the kind of booming character that I had particularly noticed, but the bottom end of the music was definitely 'unbalanced'. There was more bass, even though it still sounded pretty great, but something was clearly not right. The amp had never sounded like that previously.

I asked above if the big new Filter Caps might have had anything to do with it. Although they are only slightly bigger, 18,000uF vs 15,000uF, I wondered if that might mean that the amps ability to deliver big bass transients might be affected, so that the bass ended up being 'bigger' and a bit unbalanced to the rest of the music??? (No doubt this is a load of rubbish, but I don't quite understand just what was going on, or why)

@CohibaJoe suggested above that I go back to the original Nichicons, but I wasn't keen on that as they are 34 years old. It just so happened though that when I ordered my parts from Mouser I also ordered some 15,000uF/80V parts that were also the same physical size as the old Nichicons. These were Cornell Dubilier 383LX153M080N082 15,000uF 80V parts. So I was still going up slightly in voltage and temperature grade, but the capacity matched the original Luxman spec.

So, I decided that I had nothing to lose by trying out the Cornell Dubilier caps and just see what happened.

Here is the L430 back on my work table with the Nippon Chemi-Con parts in place.
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One of them removed.
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Here is one of the Cornell Dubilier caps mounted, with the other upside down so you can see the pins.
These are 4 pin caps, but they also have a lead pitch of 22mm whereas the original Nichicons were 25mm. This is where the Luxman excels as it has mountings that will also support both the 25mm and the 22mm lead pitch.
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Here are the Cornell Dubilier caps both in place. At this point I only soldered the positive and negative pins so I could test it.
If you look carefully, compared to the Nippon Chemi-Con caps, these are rotated slightly left. This is how they can fit into the alternative set of mounting holes.
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Here it is under test. Hands kept well away!
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Well, I have to say I was really astonished. The Luxman sounded exactly like it should, only better. The over emphasized bottom end was gone, but it retained plenty of punch on big transients. The music sounded far more balanced, and there was no discernible difference between cold and warmed up, which is what the amp had always been like.

Obviously even the slight increase in capacity of those Filter Caps buggered up Luxman's tonal design. I was frankly surprised. I had imagined that the extra capacity would just offer the amp some extra headroom, but it sounds like it actually made use of the additional power when processing transients.

I'm pleased with it now. I thought it sounded great before, once I finished the recap, but having lived with it for a few days I came to realize it was as though the loudness button was on all the time. It is now like I think it should be.

I have now soldered all the pins on the Cornell Dubilier caps and reassembled the machine. Normal service resumed? Now for the Elna's to do their thing. Time will tell.

Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread,
Trevor
 
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So guys, I was hoping that someone with more electronics/amplifier experience might be able to explain to me why installing slightly larger Filter Caps had such a dramatic effect on the bass output by the L430?

I had expected that the input signal amplified by the L430 would have retained its relative volumes. So much bass, so much mid-range and so much treble, amplified from the input signal. But as I have experienced using a larger Filter Cap seemed to greatly emphasize the bottom end so that the bass seemed to be out of proportion to the rest of the signal. Although, thinking about it, perhaps all of the signal was boosted and it was just the bottom end that was so obvious :dunno:

Has anyone else experienced this sort of behavior? Can anyone shed any light on what was actually happening when using the 18,000uF caps in place of the original 15,000uF caps? Why did the amp seem to behave the way it did?

Thanks for any input.
 
Gobsmacked. Will follow with interest.

Will try and look at the "warm up indicator" circuit however it appears there is still too much base after warmup.

I'm going through something similiar. Changing out excellent Elna Silmic II's for better "sounding" Nichicon KZ's.
There is a noticeable improvement.
 
Gobsmacked. Will follow with interest.

Will try and look at the "warm up indicator" circuit however it appears there is still too much base after warmup.

I'm going through something similiar. Changing out excellent Elna Silmic II's for better "sounding" Nichicon KZ's.
There is a noticeable improvement.

Hi there mbz, good to hear from you.

How interesting, are you saying that your L410 also experienced a similar 'too much bass' after your recap?
I'm interested that you have chosen to ditch the Elna's in favour of the Nichicon's. I could have done my L430 with Nichicon UFG's (don't have any UKZ's) but chose to give the Elna's a try. Was that a mistake?

Cheers.
 
The elna silmic II/Nichi KZ was in reference to a Yamaha CA-1000 I'm trying to supercharge, actualy copying someones work.
The caps were changed out in the regulated power supply amonst other locations. The psu had the more fancied UPW which
I like a lot. I think the KZ's will "burn out" real quick. The Elnas are a good cap, no mistake.

Before I did the rebuild on my L-410 I made a note that it sounded ok but too much base. I will have another close listen keeping
in mind your findings. I will spend a little time trying to understand how the UCC's affected the audio in the L-430 so dramatically.
 
The elna silmic II/Nichi KZ was in reference to a Yamaha CA-1000 I'm trying to supercharge, actualy copying someones work.
The caps were changed out in the regulated power supply amonst other locations. The psu had the more fancied UPW which
I like a lot. I think the KZ's will "burn out" real quick. The Elnas are a good cap, no mistake.

Before I did the rebuild on my L-410 I made a note that it sounded ok but too much base. I will have another close listen keeping
in mind your findings. I will spend a little time trying to understand how the UCC's affected the audio in the L-430 so dramatically.

Cheers, thanks mate.
 
Hello again everyone.

Well, after listening to the Luxman for a week and running the amp fairly constantly to give the Elna's time to 'burn in', I have to say that I was not as happy with the way the amp sounded as I had hoped. Initially, after startup and for the first 30-40 minutes or so the amp sounded great, plenty of bottom end bass and punch with very nice mid-range and top end. However, after some decent warm up time it seemed that the amp's tonal balance changed a bit. The bottom end bass response seemed to become a bit flatter, not as punchy. I was a bit confused as I would not have expected that the tonal balance of the amp would change with time?

Anyway, after listening for a week, and discussing the apparent issue on another thread, I decided that it would be a worthwhile exercise to swap out all the Elna SILMIC II caps and replace them with Nichicon UFG (Fine Gold) caps that I had in all the necessary sizes. The only odd ones were the four 22uF 100V caps that had originally been dark blue Elna's, but which I could not adequately identify. For these I used Nichicon UKZ (Muse) series. For the big caps I kept the Nichicon UHE's and the Cornell Dubilier 15,000uF filter caps.

Here is the main board after installing the Nichicon's.
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Here are the odd men out, the 22uF 100V UKZ's
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I have had the amp in use now for just a day, so much more testing to be done. However, my initial impression is that I like the sound of the amp better with the Nichicon's. The initial bottom end response and punch is as good as the Elna's were, but after the amp has fully warmed up the tonal balance does not seem to alter. It is always hard to make these subjective comparisons when there can be days separating the listening sessions. But so far I am liking the sound of the amp with the Nichicon's in the mix.

A lot more listening to be done yet, and I may even put the Elna's back in for another listen. But the Nichicon's certainly sound very good. The amp seems lovely and warm, but with excellent mid-range and top end, and lots of bass. And this is with the tone switch set to 'Direct' as well, so no interference from the tone circuits.

It's all a bit confusing o_O
 
Here is a question for you vintage SS Amp guys. The Luxman was full of 1980's Baby Blue Rubycon's. In fact all the caps, other than the big filter caps and six special Elna's, were the Baby Blue Rubycon's.

Does anyone know what actual series these were? I would not mind looking up some data sheets, or some specs, just to see what type of cap these were. I have replaced them all, except for the Power Supply and Filter caps with Elna SILMIC II's, and now with Nichicon UFG and UKZ.

I find myself wondering just what those old Rubycon caps actually were? Were they just standard 85 degree general purpose caps? After all, Luxman only used two Elna's that were labelled as 'For Audio', plus four other dark blue 22uF/100V Elna's that I could not adequately identify.

These are what I am talking about. You can see a number of the Baby Blue caps in this picture.
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Cheers.
 
A lot more listening to be done yet, and I may even put the Elna's back in for another listen. But the Nichicon's certainly sound very good. The amp seems lovely and warm, but with excellent mid-range and top end, and lots of bass. And this is with the tone switch set to 'Direct' as well, so no interference from the tone circuits.

It's all a bit confusing o_O

Let 'er go for a while! My general observation comparative from the elna swap and the dubllers, you are more confident in hearing what you like. To me this means the amp is telling the speakers what to do more accurately in frequency response.
 
There should be markings on the cap to indicate series. You still may not be able to find info on them, and I have no specific info either. But, my bet, would be GP caps. Modern day equivalent would be the VX series from Nichicon (unless those are 105 C rated, which I forget).
 
There should be markings on the cap to indicate series. You still may not be able to find info on them, and I have no specific info either. But, my bet, would be GP caps. Modern day equivalent would be the VX series from Nichicon (unless those are 105 C rated, which I forget).

Thanks for that mate. The old blue Rubycon's are just standard 85 degree parts. As far as I can see there are no markings on the cases that indicate just what they are, other than size and voltage of course. Also, it looks like the VX series has been replaced by VR.

Cheers.
 
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