Mach One 4024, 4024A, 4029 Information and Upgrades!

[Live_Wire]

If the Mach 2 sounded like my Mach 5000's sound, then they sound very similar. The main difference I have noted however, is the midrange is dispersed better. It's more abundant. I like that because now I'm not messing around with the treble so much to get the right mixture.

And the Mach 1's being acoustic suspension, I find they have a bit better bass response. In my room anyway.

 

[Aldo]

For the record, I have a lot of speakers, good speakers, not garbage, and have had a lot of great speakers in the past, and the Mach One's (both 4024 and 4029) are ones that I will not sell, I keep coming back to them and their bold brassy sound......

:tresbon:

 

[gyrene]

I have a set of the 4029 Mach Ones and hooked them up to both a Sansui 9090 and a Pioneer SX-750 on either reciever the bass seems...slow...or maybe stagnant...um...not sharp.Know what I'm saying.Of course I'm comparing them to a set of Klipsch KG4's so I mean...c'mon but still a 15" woofer moves some air and I think it could sound better.
I'd like to play with the crossover and maybe take some of the bass out of the low freq and enhance the midrange some.So why can't I just swap out some Henries and some Ohms and see what happens.I could wind up cleaning up the response don't you think?
Plus I don't know what the pots are supposed to be doing or if I'm defeating my purpose by moving the dial around so I usually keep it at zero.
What does everyone think of that?

 

[HomeBody]

Your listening room has alot of effect on it...I'm guessing you have carpet, upholstered furniture, drapes, etc. And We don't know your speaker placement within these obstacles versus your listening positions.
Everyone's sub-conscience has a programmed filter when judging speaker performance that will give the listener a false positive/negative.

 

[Raddek]

I have a pair of Realistic Mach 5000 speakers. They aren't branded Optimus. I have a feeling these speakers may have been a Canadian only speaker as they were made in Canada.

Those are some interesting looking speakers


I replaced the capacitors in my Mach One 4024A's, and the sound seems to have improved SLIGHTLY, but there is still some harshness with the highs... Maybe it's just the overall build of the crossover *shrugs*. Here are the components I used:

Nichicon MUSE ES Bi-Polar Audio Grade 22uf / 50v
Nichicon MUSE ES Bi-Polar Audio Grade 10uf / 50v
MALLORY 150 Series Polyester Film 2.2uf / 250v 10%

I hope these are alright components. They are certainly smaller than what was originally installed! (The new caps are the green ones):

I can't really make a good judgment on the overall sound yet (since it's 3:50am right now, and I don't want to wake up anyone). I'll have to try them out properly later.

 

[fastbike]

I didn't mean ti kick your puppy. The statement was purely about the cabinets. People are big on the wood veneer, but the underlying particle board in THESE particular cabinets is very low density and crumbles easily. I don't have any bias about the Mach Ones in either direction, merely describing the cabs. I'm well aware of the build of the early Advents, EPIs, etc, having been around for them. You read one part of one message and decide it's a baised blanket statement? Take a breath and relax. They are a pair of old speakers.

You know - have you heard them? Some of the best speakers I have heard were built with 'low bid components'. I am not saying they are the best but if you havent heard them you can't judge.

I have a set of Altec Segovias, now they are also particle board cabinets. Also most of the early KLH's, the early Advents, EPI's, and others all have the same type of cabinet. Does that mean they are bad too? You really do like to throw blanket statements out that have no basis in anything but your own bias.

 

[barredowl]

Are those ring radiator tweeters on the Mach 5000s? They look kind of like the JBL 075 ring radiators...

 

[Aldo]

No, the Mach 5000s use Foster horn tweeters....

 

[Live_Wire]

I saw a speaker at Sayal Electronics yesterday when I bought some lights, and they called it a Horn Loaded Bullet tweeter. Looked identical to the ones in my 5000's.

 

[Raddek]

I have a new question.. How can I pinpoint a year at which my Mach One Speakers were manufactured ?

 

[gyrene]

Raddek are you tweaking the crossovers or just gathering info?
I used this formula to choose capacitors: Xc= 1/(2pi)fC


Where Xc=capacitive resistance (the ohms of the capacitor in farads)
f=the frequency at cutoff in Hz
C=the speaker impedance.
So I checked the formula against what the published specs are on a set of Klipsch Cornwalls which also run a 15" woofer and of course P.W.K.the audio genius of the last century and personal favorite of mine, was correctomundo!This would be a 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley crossover.

I noticed on my 4029's that the impedance of the 15" woofer is 6 ohms and was a bit suprised at that thinkng I'd find the usual 8 ohms.
I'm not sure if this post adds to your knowledge base or not but...there it is.Hope this helps.

 

[barkerd]

not knocking the mach 1's in general : just mine in particular : and I'm looking for some help . I have the less desirable "liquid cooled" type : love the cabs and the overall looks : but for me , that's where it ends.
they sound hollow : bass is not pronounced ...very muddy ... definitely not sounding "pipe-organ -y" high end is weak : no airiness ...and the mids sound shallow.

Had them in two different rooms : one open and reflective , one smaller and pretty surface-balanced .... driven them with an sx-780 (very standard SS type sound on other speakers with it) as well as an sx 737 (very tube-y imho) ....I just can't get a sweet spot with the Mach 1's ...... they begin to get better at a ridiculously high spl ...but then definition with any speaker would begin to take a back seat to the spl at that point (imho)


question : why am I having such a mediocre experience with these fairly well-regarded speaker? some speakers need and react to a recap much more than others : Is this the problem? (although of all the mach 1 threads Ive seen recapping does not appear to be a huge, immediate, necessity)

Help : I'd really like to love these things / but they need to sound decent : right now a pair of 12" , 3-way store brand '70's cheapies (without a recap) kick their a$$ big-time....and a small pr of 8" infinities absolutely kill them

 

[gyrene]

Well thats the thing about these MakeOnes.I have the 4029's and did I tell you how much they try to suck...alright maybe not that bad but for garage speakers they will do for now.Plus I get to experiment on them...like FrankenMach? or MachenStein?
I think a 15" woofer is tough to make move and stop moving at all the correct intervals.Although PWK didn't seem to have a problem with that did he? Hence the Cornwalls.So I copied his crossover at least as far as the local Radio Shack would support me with new capacitors...and that is not too far really.
Still a work in progress for me.
But hey barker...turn it up some...maybe I can hear it down here in Carolina!

 

[barkerd]

is it the model : or do they all sound similar?

re : turning it up : how about full blat with stacked advents and a pl400 at full boil ?

 

[Raddek]

Raddek are you tweaking the crossovers or just gathering info?

I really hadn't planned on tweaking the crossovers in my 4024A's, only replacing the old capacitors with new ones. The main idea of me starting this thread was also to gather info about all the different 'versions' of Mach One's. So far it's doing pretty well .. Still need pics of the original 4024 (without the A) crossovers.

 

[Live_Wire]

is it the model : or do they all sound similar?

No one can really answer that unless they have a pair of the 4024 and the 4029. Everyone's hearing and taste is very different.

I find my 4024A's to have a very deep and define bass output. The woofer may be big, but it can move and stop moving if it wants to. The cabinet is sealed pretty well and I have a hard time moving that cone with my hands. The high frequencies are very well defined and not deafening like some other horns I have heard. The midrange frequencies sound excellent. That horn can move the sound around the room without hurting my ears.

Maybe I'm biased, but I haven't heard any other speakers that sound as good as these. The only ones that are in the same league are my 5000's I find. I haven't heard the Mach 2 or Mach 3, but I'm sure they sound the same.

I have heard plenty of new speakers at Best Buy, and sure they produce a fairly low sound, they just don't deliver the punch that these Mach series speakers can. I think what it is now though, is these tower speakers they are putting out. They have tiny drivers in them. I like to feel it, not just hear it. The idea of having more than one bass driver in a cabinet really doesn't do much for me.

As far as recapping these, I don't really think it's that important to be honest. The capacitors in mine still read the same rating that is on the side of them, and they haven't bloated.

 

[Raddek]

I have heard plenty of new speakers at Best Buy, and sure they produce a fairly low sound, they just don't deliver the punch that these Mach series speakers can. I think what it is now though, is these tower speakers they are putting out. They have tiny drivers in them. I like to feel it, not just hear it. The idea of having more than one bass driver in a cabinet really doesn't do much for me.

I think the reason most of today's modern speaker's don't seem to pack as much punch is because they are all focused on surround sound and subwoofers. Subwoofers were, of course, not part of the modern household 'way back when', so 2 channel stereo's and speakers were meant to deliver everything they could with the two channels.

 

[HomeBody]

Realistic Mach One 4029 Brochure

I thought I'd pass this info on to all the Mach lovers-
From the owner's leaflet-

Your Mach One uses a special new ferrofluid-cooled design. Ferrofluid is a magnetic fluid originally developed for the U.S. Space program. The result is improved power handling and smoother, more linear response. Ferrofluid conducts heat build-up away from the critical voice-coil and 'sinks' it into the speaker structure. This heat sink effect makes it possible for the Mach One to handle higher peak levels of power without burn-out or distortion products which might be produced by mechanical stresses brought about by heat rise.

The 15" (38 cm) acoustic-suspension speaker faithfully reproduces rich bass from 20 to 1000 Hz. The 16 sectoral horn midrange speaker gives exceptionally smooth response from 1000 to 5500 Hz. A heavy-duty bullet tweeter adds silky, distortion-free high frequency reproduction from 5000 to beyond the response capability of the human ear.

A deluxe inductive/capacitive crossover network achieves precise blending fo the response characteristics of these speaker elements, producing a smooth, wide response throughout the entire frequency range. The acoustical-mechanical design of the enclosure and horn midrange speaker and horn tweeter results in unusually uniform dispersion. Incorporation of two controls, MIDRANGE and HIGH FREQUENCY, permit you to adjust speaker performance to the conditions in the listening area and to your own personal taste.

POWER REQUIREMENTS
The acoustical efficiency of the Mach One will permit you to realize the full capabilities of Amplifier/Receivers which have as low as 20 watts (RMS) of power output.
However, we recognize two factors:
1- Music often has transient power peaks which achieve levels of 10 or more times the average power.
2- If you like to listen to your sound system at levels typical of sound levels in a concert hall, you may prefer an amplifier with 40 or more watts of power per channel.
The Mach One is designed to handle such power levels without distortion, breakup or damage (even if transients peak to 10 times the rated power capacity of this speaker).

POWER HANDLING CAPABILITY
The Power Capacity to this loudspeaker system is a statement of its ability to absorb and reproduce continuous program material without affecting the sound quality and without damaging the speaker. It is more than adequate to handle music reproduction from almost any Amplifier/Receiver currently on the market. Notice that we stated "music reproduction": this speaker is designed for music reproduction. Sine-wave test tones should not be used at any excessive levels for extended periods of time. Such sine-wave test tones can be dangerous to any loudspeaker system designed for music reproduction. Special laboratory speakers occasionally are capable of absorbing sustained high levels of such test tones, but "music reproduction type speakers" are not. Any damage from such high level sine-wave test tones is not covered by the warranty.

PLACEMENT
Speaker performance is highly dependent on the listening environment and its placement, this statement is particularly true of the bass response.
As you move the speaker near a wall or into a corner, bass will be emphasized. If possible, experiment with the placement of your speakers before deciding on a final arrangement.

CONTROLS
The MIDRANGE AND HIGH FREQUENCY controls are provided so you can tailor the sound to suit your taste. In most cases, leave the controls at 0 dB (normal). If you have positioned the speaker near or against a 'hard' surface (plaster wall, etc.) you probably will want to use the "-3 dB" or "-6 dB" setting of MIDRANGE. To compensate for the sound absorption of soft wall (curtains, etc.) rotate toward the "+6 dB" setting. You probably will do a fair amount of listening (and maybe repositioning) before you arrive at the best setting of these controls for the room acoustics and your personal taste.

SPECIFICATIONS
Frequency Response: 25~20,000 Hz
Power Handling Capacity: 160 watts peak program
Impedance: 8 ohms
System Resonance: 65 Hz
Cross-Over Points: 1.2 kHz and 4.5 kHz
Speaker Complement:
15" (38 cm) Acoustic-suspension, 34.8 oz. (986 g) magnet woofer with brass voice coil
1 extended range high compliance ferrofluid-cooled horn tweeter
Enclosure: Oiled walnut veneer sealed for extended bass response
Removable Grill
Controls: Midrange and Tweeter level controls
Dimensions: 28-5/8" H x 17-3/8" W x 12" D
Weight: 65 lbs. (29.5 kg)
Multicellular ferrofluid-cooled horn midrange speaker

[/i]

 

[dc270]

Padding The Driver Frames, Etc.-An Observation!

It had kind of been my fortune of late to refoam and do some restoration of some older cabinets and drivers. Two differant models These are of the 2~3 cubic foot or better size boxes with typical stamped steel frame drivers used in the boxes. Two of those speakers was the Mach 1, 4029 model.

Having time on my hands I did some experimentation. I did the usual re-capping and driver re-foaming. I also installe a 2"x2" solid wood brace with a 4" x 4" x .75" block glued at each end of the brace. I firmly installed/ glued/ nailed the brace between the baffle & cabinet back near the woofer and mid/ tweeter wood areas. Lastly I ran another cross brace, just like the one I made, cut to fit from cabinet side to side.

On the Mach 1's I sprayed sound deadener on therecapped network plastic and on the back of the plastic plate where the tweeter/ tone control are mounted on the Mach 1's. Do no spray into the L-Pads. The sound deadener can be an auto undercoat or bead liner type material, or that spray/ dip you use to put on plier handles etc.

Next I went into the upper horn area of the Mach 1's and wrapped fiberglass around the horn lens and stuffed the remaining area as well.

Lastly I took .75" foam rubber and cut several pieces to fit the frame spokes on the backside of the 15" woofers, then glued them in place. The magnet structure does not really need it, but those thin metal spokes do! Be careful NOT to bind your cone, spider or cone lead wires.

Everything was reassembled. One of each set was left original with a simple re-foam & re-cap, the other modified as stated above. You will plainly hear an audible improvement of the modified ones!! The sound is much cleaner, well defined and easier to listen to. It is impressive!

FWIW those thin driver frames and cabinets do add a substantial amount of extra noise you can do something about! While re-foaming and re-capping are standard fair to do, finish the job by adding those deatils noted above and you will truly have something worth listening to!!

I personally think Mach 1's are fair quality in sound & construction- however when taken to the next level they actually can be made to sound much better. Old Altecs the Machs will never be- but vastly improved YES!

Hope this helps all you stampt steel big driver frame guys out there and especially you Mach people.
DC

 

[juniorJBL]

Just a suggestion. instead of the rubber try some window sealing tape or the smooth Ice and water shield found at most home centers. Some names of products. Protecto wrap. Grace ice and water.

It is a simple asphalt based tape with a very sticky glue on it. Heat it with a blow dryer and it will never come off.!!