Mach One 4024, 4024A, 4029 Information and Upgrades!
- Thread starter Raddek
- Start date
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Tier 1 / 2 Questions Answered
It is just for the 4029 at this time. However, you can do the mod to open the midrange area up to the woofer. This is for 4024, 4024a and 4029. It helps the bass and helps the boom. The midrange area should be opened up on all models of the Mach Ones!
I have some 4024a drivers coming and will be able to see what is needed for the 4024, 4024a after I test them.
It is just for the 4029 at this time. However, you can do the mod to open the midrange area up to the woofer. This is for 4024, 4024a and 4029. It helps the bass and helps the boom. The midrange area should be opened up on all models of the Mach Ones!
I have some 4024a drivers coming and will be able to see what is needed for the 4024, 4024a after I test them.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
That is a huge hole, to be sure. Is there any chance it has anything to do with the ferrofluid? Is there any reason not to change to the earlier Mach Tweeters? They're still Mach drivers, the dimensions, I believe are spot on. If no hole in freq. only other mod would be correct crossover adjustments. And with Mach drivers still readily available, through various sources, anyone could make this change. Finally would losing the ferrofluid be that big a deal since I haven't seen or read about any blown tweeters (not saying it hasn't happened).
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Mach Tweeters
That could be an option. I think the 12db hole is from the shape and size of the horn throat. If it is then the drivers, whether from a 4024a or 4029 will make no difference. This is what I have to confirm. I love the sound now from the woofer and the Mid Horn, it is 100% better in the Tier 2 mod. The tweeter as I said before is the only problem left to solve.:scratch2:
That could be an option. I think the 12db hole is from the shape and size of the horn throat. If it is then the drivers, whether from a 4024a or 4029 will make no difference. This is what I have to confirm. I love the sound now from the woofer and the Mid Horn, it is 100% better in the Tier 2 mod. The tweeter as I said before is the only problem left to solve.:scratch2:
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Honestly if the solution is a change entirely of the driver I'm all for it. Only catch I see, outside the obvious different driver, is mounting. If a suitable unit can be found that fits the mounting AND is readily available, I for one would be happy to try it. As long as I don't have to mod the mounting I'm good. Another option that is very viable is making a new plate (keeping the old stuff just because). Acrylic/Lexan plastic is readily available in hardware stores, etc. A plate with the correct dimensions, two holes for the pots and one hole appropriate for the tweeter would be easy enough to fabricate. I would even be happy to make my 40-4024a guinea pigs for this.
I know the goal is using existing components (other than crossover mods), but if one is clearly deficient, and no feasible corrections possible, then substitiality is the next best course.
Just my thoughts.
I know the goal is using existing components (other than crossover mods), but if one is clearly deficient, and no feasible corrections possible, then substitiality is the next best course.
Just my thoughts.
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Mach 1 Horn
I am going to try and keep the Tweeter Horn if possible. If I can't work it out, I have a very good replacement in mind!!:yes:
I am going to try and keep the Tweeter Horn if possible. If I can't work it out, I have a very good replacement in mind!!:yes:
pete_mac
Super Member
Nice work Videolady. I'm keenly awaiting your 4024a mods, as I've delayed recapping my Machs until seeing the results of your investigations. Unfortunately I have already bought replacement caps based upon the standard crossover values, so I will purchase another batch in future which are consistent with your revised crossover mods.
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Tweeter Horn Problems???
I wanted to update the people that are waiting to hear about the Tweeter horn. New modeling I have done looks really good and if it works as modeled, we can keep the tweeter and it will perform great!! I found a problem that was throwing me off and just found out why today. Never assume anything and I should know better. Glad I didn't waste more than a day on it. The tweeter if you look is wired in phase at the horn. It is also wired in phase as the crossover, so I assumed the full path was in phase, wrong. At the L-Pad connections they had inverted the phase and this is the reason I thought I was not getting good data and the horn would never test as modeled. Now knowing about the phase, I can remodel and I think the horn will work as it should. I'll update you as I get further along with testing but as of now, things are looking way better!!:thmbsp:
I wanted to update the people that are waiting to hear about the Tweeter horn. New modeling I have done looks really good and if it works as modeled, we can keep the tweeter and it will perform great!! I found a problem that was throwing me off and just found out why today. Never assume anything and I should know better. Glad I didn't waste more than a day on it. The tweeter if you look is wired in phase at the horn. It is also wired in phase as the crossover, so I assumed the full path was in phase, wrong. At the L-Pad connections they had inverted the phase and this is the reason I thought I was not getting good data and the horn would never test as modeled. Now knowing about the phase, I can remodel and I think the horn will work as it should. I'll update you as I get further along with testing but as of now, things are looking way better!!:thmbsp:
I hope at least one or two of the original values can stay the same rather than buying all 6 again..
dc270
Now Off the Reservation
FWIW I did adapt this tweeter on a past Mach 1 project:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-536
Ir sounded pretty darn good with some plate modification to fit the horn lens. The APT driver is really nice- the cost is the bigt drawback however!
DC
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-536
Ir sounded pretty darn good with some plate modification to fit the horn lens. The APT driver is really nice- the cost is the bigt drawback however!
DC
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Yikes, that is pricey, for this type of project anyway. I've been wondering how good a match a piezo might be. Many of them are the correct dimesions, just not sure about the audio match. Any thoughts? I am, of course, aware that VL may have solved the issue, but in case someone has a bad tweeter or set of tweeters, maybe piezo is an option?
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Tweeter Horn Update
I am sure the Tweeter horn in the Mach One will now work! I still have some more testing, but so far so good. They now sound better than I have ever heard them before. Now I am just trying to see if anything can be made any better before I call it done!! They are 10 times better right now than a stock Mach One. I just want to know there is nothing left that could make them even a little better yet.
Also, if anyone has blow tweeters this diaphragm will fit and work great. You have to remove the foam ring and solder the leads but it works great! It is also made out of the same material and looks the same as well.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-531 :yes:
I am sure the Tweeter horn in the Mach One will now work! I still have some more testing, but so far so good. They now sound better than I have ever heard them before. Now I am just trying to see if anything can be made any better before I call it done!! They are 10 times better right now than a stock Mach One. I just want to know there is nothing left that could make them even a little better yet.
Also, if anyone has blow tweeters this diaphragm will fit and work great. You have to remove the foam ring and solder the leads but it works great! It is also made out of the same material and looks the same as well.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-531 :yes:
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
I have 40-4024a speakers and recapping with original values worked wonders for my pair, so don't worry much about it. I have another pair of "shells" that I plan to use for the cabinet mods, I only wish I hadn't sold the speakers. Hind sight, as they say....of course I never expected to be doing this kind of experimentation or enhancements.
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
4024a info
I was told they were shipped but I have not received anything yet. As soon as I do get them I will post my findings and see what can be done!
NEW INFO: I WAS JUST NOTIFIED THEY SHOULD BE HERE TODAY!!!!
I was told they were shipped but I have not received anything yet. As soon as I do get them I will post my findings and see what can be done!
NEW INFO: I WAS JUST NOTIFIED THEY SHOULD BE HERE TODAY!!!!
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videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
4024a Woofer
Just an update. I got the 4024a woofer today and will be testing so we will know the difference between the 4024a & 4029. It will take a few days but I will post what my findings are!!
Just an update. I got the 4024a woofer today and will be testing so we will know the difference between the 4024a & 4029. It will take a few days but I will post what my findings are!!
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
4024a vs 4029 Mach One Woofer
On first inspection this is my findings. I was surprised! I have not done any measurements yet, this is just dissecting and visual inspection. The cones are from the same die but the 4029 cone is stronger. It seems that it has been pressed with greater pressure and is more dense! The surround on the 4024a is not rubber but is a heavy foam that is coated with a thin coating on both front and back to seal the foam and therefore stops mold from getting in the pores and causing foam rot. The compliance is the same as both has the same moving mass and the same FS! The 4024a does have a copper voice coil, while the 4029 has an aluminum copper clad voice coil. The 4024a does not have a four layer voice coil as stated in RS ads, it has a flat edge wound wire single layer voice coil! The 4029 has a much longer winding length and therefore a longer more linear travel!
The magnet structure seems to be the same but I will measure them to confirm the BL properties. Over all the only major changes is the voice coil former material and the voice coil wire/winding length. Once I repair the 4024a and put it back together I will do acoustical measurements and post the results. One other note, both woofers are really 8 ohm nominal impedance with the 4024a more towards a 9 ohm speaker. Now I would like to test a 4024 and see if it has the four layer VC. This may explain the reason for the change in model number between the 4024 and the 4024a!! More to come!:yes:
On first inspection this is my findings. I was surprised! I have not done any measurements yet, this is just dissecting and visual inspection. The cones are from the same die but the 4029 cone is stronger. It seems that it has been pressed with greater pressure and is more dense! The surround on the 4024a is not rubber but is a heavy foam that is coated with a thin coating on both front and back to seal the foam and therefore stops mold from getting in the pores and causing foam rot. The compliance is the same as both has the same moving mass and the same FS! The 4024a does have a copper voice coil, while the 4029 has an aluminum copper clad voice coil. The 4024a does not have a four layer voice coil as stated in RS ads, it has a flat edge wound wire single layer voice coil! The 4029 has a much longer winding length and therefore a longer more linear travel!
The magnet structure seems to be the same but I will measure them to confirm the BL properties. Over all the only major changes is the voice coil former material and the voice coil wire/winding length. Once I repair the 4024a and put it back together I will do acoustical measurements and post the results. One other note, both woofers are really 8 ohm nominal impedance with the 4024a more towards a 9 ohm speaker. Now I would like to test a 4024 and see if it has the four layer VC. This may explain the reason for the change in model number between the 4024 and the 4024a!! More to come!:yes: