Mancave Rebuild after Sewer Flood

[loudnoises]

Have you considered having a backflow valve put on the sewer lines? (can you even do this in your municipality?) Incredibly inexpensive protection, a 4" valve is under $60.
Seems like it might help prevent the same thing from happening in the future again. Once of prevention and all that.

Those of us who take advantage of the solid floors, WAF compiance, and space of basements live with fears like this. Everything in my space is 2" up, and there's a double door with a 1/2" sill for drainage. 66" door, 1 1/2" of water, i'd need over 100gpm to get the water that high in here.

 

[mshultz]

Have you considered having a backflow valve put on the sewer lines? (can you even do this in your municipality?) Incredibly inexpensive protection, a 4" valve is under $60.
Seems like it might help prevent the same thing from happening in the future again. Once of prevention and all that.

Those of us who take advantage of the solid floors, WAF compiance, and space of basements live with fears like this. Everything in my space is 2" up, and there's a double door with a 1/2" sill for drainage. 66" door, 1 1/2" of water, i'd need over 100gpm to get the water that high in here.

I had a backflow valve installed when I was hooked up to the City sewage system. According to the elevation plans, the manhole in my lower field is the low point of the system, so a sewage backup should pop the manhole cover and flood the field instead of my basement. I still thought it was a good idea to have a backflow valve. There is a lift station by the corner of my property. Although it has a backup generator, lift stations are not as reliable as gravity.

 

[Old Guy8]

Have you considered having a backflow valve put on the sewer lines? (can you even do this in your municipality?) Incredibly inexpensive protection, a 4" valve is under $60.
Seems like it might help prevent the same thing from happening in the future again. Once of prevention and all that.

Those of us who take advantage of the solid floors, WAF compiance, and space of basements live with fears like this. Everything in my space is 2" up, and there's a double door with a 1/2" sill for drainage. 66" door, 1 1/2" of water, i'd need over 100gpm to get the water that high in here.

The prior owner installed a manual one. 27 turns of acme screw thread closes a vertical gate. A second flapper door included. I should have closed it ahead of flood. I have double flood sensors at floor drains and sump pit. I was just slow closeing it on this flood, closing the valve. But some neighbors got 3" to 2 feet sewage or rainwater. So valve reduced what I got. I just lost bath cabinet, some bookcases and not much else in possessions.

 

[highvoltage_]

...Not posting pics what the bath and shower before cleanup looked like.

Thank you. Thankfully I have never experience a sewer backup into a basement. And hopefully I never will. Good luck on your restoration, looks like it's going well so far.

 

[Old Guy8]

Starting plans to rebuild basement audio
mancaves. TV room, Stereo room and 4 other rooms.
Can go with carpet again. Or, try vinyl planking which is clicked together, free floating and
non-porous. These vinyl planks are 8mm thick. Told if they get wet, can be marked for position, cleaned and relain.
If I use planking, will add a rug in front of speakers.
Project will likely be months to finish.

 

[Old Guy8]

"PLAN B" has been foisted to top of list. After second sewer backup in three weeks. More damage. Our optimism about rebuilding has taken big hit. Audio mancave rebuild is on hold. Maybe permanently. Basements have thier drawbacks.

 

[stevo137]

Sorry to hear about your flooding.

If the sewage was backflow from your drains you should install a standpipe system to prevent this from happening again.

It's fairly simple and it won't burst your pipes as some think.

Water simply rises to a certain point which is a given level and that's it, it won't go any higher.
This does not cause more pressure, it just does not rise higher than your standpipe which allows the water to seek its own level and once it does this it simply moves on to where it can seek a lower level and release.

In other words, if you install a standpipe into your basement drain which has backflow and it is as high as your basement windows and the water level is higher than your windows there is nothing that you can do at this point necause the water will be flowing in through your windows.

Do this and you will not have to deal with backflow again as long as you keep the standpipe in.

Basement sink, no problem, install a valve to stop the flow because the sink is too low.

Catch basin outflow?
No problem, elbow on the incoming pipe and elbow it up as high as the standpipe and out to drain, done, no backflow out of your catch basin either.

Toilet downstairs?
Forget it, you will need to get rid of it.

 

[stevo137]

The prior owner installed a manual one. 27 turns of acme screw thread closes a vertical gate. A second flapper door included. I should have closed it ahead of flood. I have double flood sensors at floor drains and sump pit. I was just slow closeing it on this flood, closing the valve. But some neighbors got 3" to 2 feet sewage or rainwater. So valve reduced what I got. I just lost bath cabinet, some bookcases and not much else in possessions.

The gate is not the answer, standpipe system done properly is.
The gate does cause back pressure and failure issues that are difficult to beat.
The standpipe system simply defies gravity and once in place there is nothing else that needs to be done whether you are home or not when the flooding happens.

 

[stevo137]

I will try to describe an example.

It's raining heavily again and you know what that means.
You begin to see backflow of sewage in your basement and feel helpless.

The water outside and in the city sewers is let's say, 16 feet right now but your basement drain is 15.5 feet elevation and unprotected.
You will get exactly .5 feet of water continually flowing until your basement reaches 16 feet of water elevation full of water and it will stop at that point unless the water elevation continues to rise.

You simply thread a standpipe in the basement drain with no sealed plug on top and the standpipe is higher than 16 feet and you can litterally watch the water rise in the standpipe to flood level which is 16 feet in this example and stop.

At this point, the water has found its own level and moves on, not over the standpipe unless the top of the standpipe becomes lower than water level and if that's the case, the water will be flowing in through your basement windows and then there's nothing that you can do to stop it.

A shut off valve on your main line is a major mistake and a ripoff by anyone who claims this is the best solution.

They simply want to take advantage of you and charge you much for a solution that will fail.

Bottom line.
Water seeks its own level and once it finds it, it will go no higher unless it's own level continues to rise.
If resistance to seeking its own level is present, then it will cause additional pressure which is what a main line shut off valve does.

If water has no resistance while seeking its own level, it does not increase pressure, it simply finds its own level and moves on to the next lower point of least resistance.

In this video, this plumber knows his stuff and explains it better than I can.

 

[FONSguy]

In 2011 I came home to a burst cold water hose on the washer. It flooded my main level. Lucky I live in a slab house and most of the water leaked out the rear of the house between the wood frame and the slab. Took 3.5 months to get back in. Did the 2 foot drywall thing, lost carpet, baseboards, kitchen tile. Took the opportunity to upgrade everything, including 35 year old AC sockets. Audio gear was on stands mostly except a Crown PSA2. Luckily it didn't get to my sunken living room, where the amp was. I STILL have a bit of paranoia about it.

 

[Old Guy8]

Thanks for all your responses.
Live in a valley next to a creek. City is upgrading sewer mains which may have reduced capacity. Add saturated ground and heavy rains.
Was intending to rebuild basement prior to second round .flood Going to wait till next year now. May scrape carpet glue off cement and forgo carpet or vinyl planks. 1900 sf of which 1500sf was carpet. To do a full rebuild just to lose again? Maybe not.
Have basement bath with shower.
My manual closing gate with additional flapper backwater valve leaked. Next project is replace its seals and gaskets.

 

[Old Guy8]

I will try to describe an example.

It's raining heavily again and you know what that means.
You begin to see backflow of sewage in your basement and feel helpless.


The water outside and in the city sewers is let's say, 16 feet right now but your basement drain is 15.5 feet elevation and unprotected.
You will get exactly .5 feet of water continually flowing until your basement reaches 16 feet of water elevation full of water and it will stop at that point unless the water elevation continues to rise.

You simply thread a standpipe in the basement drain with no sealed plug on top and the standpipe is higher than 16 feet and you can litterally watch the water rise in the standpipe to flood level which is 16 feet in this example and stop.

At this point, the water has found its own level and moves on, not over the standpipe unless the top of the standpipe becomes lower than water level and if that's the case, the water will be flowing in through your basement windows and then there's nothing that you can do to stop it.

A shut off valve on your main line is a major mistake and a ripoff by anyone who claims this is the best solution.

They simply want to take advantage of you and charge you much for a solution that will fail.

Bottom line.
Water seeks its own level and once it finds it, it will go no higher unless it's own level continues to rise.
If resistance to seeking its own level is present, then it will cause additional pressure which is what a main line shut off valve does.

If water has no resistance while seeking its own level, it does not increase pressure, it simply finds its own level and moves on to the next lower point of least resistance.

In this video, this plumber knows his stuff and explains it better than I can.

Steve, thanks for your indepth responses. I'll look into a standpipe. Even if I had to give up basement toilet, sink and shower to assure saving major $ loses in future. Just restoration crews twice about $9k.
thanks again.
Old Guy

 

[stevo137]

Check out the video, there are check valves that can be used for the shower but you still need one open ended standpipe for the main drain which relieves the pressure.

I totally feel your discouragement as my first house had this issue until I found a good honest Plummer that used this system and after that it never happened again and I sold the house for a good profit in which the buyers liked system.

I know what it's like to sit at the top of those stairs and watch raw sewage mixed with water fill your basement and it's a horrible feeling.

 

[onwardjames]

"PLAN B" has been foisted to top of list. After second sewer backup in three weeks. More damage. Our optimism about rebuilding has taken big hit. Audio mancave rebuild is on hold. Maybe permanently. Basements have thier drawbacks.

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!!! Sorry man. This just sucks for you. I sure hope you guys find an answer.

This is the very reason when the wife shows me homes with a basement (we're looking to move) that I balk.

Too much trying to keep what nature wants to move in, i.e. WATER.

 

[hjames]

A bit over 20 years ago I was renting a townhouse in Herndon, VA ...
Came home one day to a funky sound, & the house was full of smoke -
or so we thought - but we quickly discovered it was STEAM! ...
Turned out they had saved a couple bucks when they built the community
and used something new - PolyButylene for all plumbing.
In our home, one of the hot water pipes in the basement had failed,
sprayed through the wall and soaked the whole room.

A friend was renting the basement and she had a massive record collection on the floor, guitars, custom speaker cabinets and more ...
Everything of hers suffered some damage - what a mess!

 

[Old Guy8]

A bit over 20 rs ago I was renting a townhouse in Herndon, VA ...
Came home one day to a funky sound, & the house was full of smoke -
or so we thought - but we quickly discovered it was STEAM! ...
Turned out they had saved a couple bucks when they built the community
and used something new - PolyButylene for all plumbing.
In our home, one of the hot water pipes in the basement had failed,
sprayed through the wall and soaked the whole room.

A friend was renting the basement and she had a massive record collection on the floor, guitars, custom speaker cabinets and more ...
Everything of hers suffered some damage - what a mess!

First thing I moved upstairs was stereo gear, then records. All was off floor and survived.
Now a small garage is full along with living/dining area. May need to lighten audio load just to get some room.

 

[onwardjames]

@Old Guy8, like AK'er Chicks says, the equipment comes and goes, but the music remains.

I made a SERIOUS commitment to shedding weight on my collection this weekend with the acquisition of what some would call end of the road speakers. McIntosh XRT20's.

I have worked for the last 2 days moving Boston Acoustic A150's, Yamaha NS690III's, Epicure 201's, Vandersteen 2B's, NHT's, LSA-1's, ALL RESTORED/in perfect shape, into the little mother in law house I have.

It'll mostly all go to Bartertown or Craigslist. Why? Because I'm drowning in this stuff.

Here's to a brand new start for an "old guy", and remember, the music remains!

Good luck.

 

[danrclem]

Sorry to hear about your flooding problems but I'm glad the stereo survived.

When I built my house 30 years ago I put lateral pipe under the inside concrete floor (next to the footer) and ran it out of one walls. I also put large lateral gravel around the outside with a drain pipe on each end where I have a walkout. I see lots of water come out of the one drain pipe and knock on wood I haven't ever had water from rain in my basement. If I ever have a lot of water in my basement it'll probably be from the water heater or a washer hose.

I don't have any advice for you but I hope you get it all straightened up with the man cave back. I'd sure hate to do without mine.

 

[Old Guy8]

Doesn't look like much now. This was my audio area with bar on left. TV room behind partial wall. Was steam cleaned and sanitized today. Carpet backing and glue still on concrete. Eventually may scrape 1500 sf to remove glue. Not lay flooring. Just use area rugs.
Maybe wainscoating (waist high panel) instead of drywall, pearlite and paint.

 

[Old Guy8]

@Old Guy8, like AK'er Chicks says, the equipment comes and goes, but the music remains.

I made a SERIOUS commitment to shedding weight on my collection this weekend with the acquisition of what some would call end of the road speakers. McIntosh XRT20's.

I have worked for the last 2 days moving Boston Acoustic A150's, Yamaha NS690III's, Epicure 201's, Vandersteen 2B's, NHT's, LSA-1's, ALL RESTORED/in perfect shape, into the little mother in law house I have.

It'll mostly all go to Bartertown or Craigslist. Why? Because I'm drowning in this stuff.

Here's to a brand new start for an "old guy", and remember, the music remains!

Good luck.

Onward,
Yes how many systems do we need?