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Matching Amp to speakers..

cappedup

New Member
I’d like to drive my system a bit harder than it will currently allow.

I really like my Sansui amp but realise it might be the weak link.

However my old floor standing speakers are nothing to be proud of. I’d be happy to swap those. If I drive them too hard I blow a tweeter, although realise this could be the amps fault.

The sound quality is a solid 7/10. I’d like to push for more.

Any advise on what to consider for a bit better clarity and volume?

Dual 1019.
Sansui 2000.
Celestion F30’s.

thanks.

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Huh. Hadn’t thought of that.

These Celestion F30’s are now pretty old, and are big lumps.

Is there any option of newer technology that might fulfill all roles, including subwoofer?

I’d happily take smaller, shelf style units.

Or recommendations of a sub to match what I have?

Thanks.
 
To start with I'd use those pre-outs and connect those to a stouter power amp.
Then I'd re-evaluate the system and see if that helped the situation some.

Beyond that yeah then you start considering things like adding a sub (or two) -or- going w/some other speakers.
And you do so knowing you have the preamp & power amp end of things covered nicely.

JM2¢ ~ FWIW ~ HTH

Bret P.
 
To start with I'd use those pre-outs and connect those to a stouter power amp.
Then I'd re-evaluate the system and see if that helped the situation some.
Yep! :thumbsup:

Lot's of decent/good/very good amps out there for a few hundred. Adcom, Hafler, B&K and many, many more. Keep your eyes open and when one shows up (wherever), do a google search for it. That will pull up all (or at least many) of the AK posts about it. You can then read what people here think about it.
 
Oh yeah,,,almost forgot...
Work on the speaker placement some too.

I just noticed that too, @cappedup that should be a first priority maybe you'll notice a difference.

I really like my Sansui amp but realise it might be the weak link. ...my old floor standing speakers are nothing to be proud of. I’d be happy to swap those.


That 2000 A is nice little unit and punches above it's listed 35 WPC, don't give up on that too soon with a good pair of speakers that Sansui should make them sing.

It seems you already aren't too keen on the speakers so you might be better served looking for something else.
 
As Zero mentioned, speaker placement. Do I see corner of audio rack in pic of speaker. Is it pointing at the rack and TT? Could be getting feedback to stylus. Could affect clarity, especially at high volume.
Maybe some pics of setup and room. Posters could give suggestions. If your open to that.
 
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Speaker placement isnt ideal. Small room. Trying to get sound to fill the house more. Hadn’t thought about feedback to the stylus. Its possible. Will adjust and see. One of the benefits of shelf speakers is I’d be able to place them on the other side of the room, avoiding pointing them at the TT.

@xero, is the idea to use the Sansui as a preamp before another power amp? Been reading a few people doing that.

All the preamps I see for sale are little boxes. Seems odd to use the massive Sansui to do the job of a smaller item.

Could I use a modern (better) preamp between the Sansui and TT, or would that not work because it already has one inside?
 
@xero, is the idea to use the Sansui as a preamp before another power amp? Been reading a few people doing that.
Yep,that's the basic idea.
I mentioned that as you said you wanted to "drive the system a bit harder" but were affraid it would smoke the tweeters.
The "smoke the tweeters" comment presumably referencing the fact that doing so would risk pushing the low watt receiver into clipping.
All the preamps I see for sale are little boxes. Seems odd to use the massive Sansui to do the job of a smaller item.
Meh,that's just how some new stereo companies "roll" these days.
And among those some are more purpose specific preamps too.
Anyhow some are decent units,some I'd avoid.
The key difference is knowing what you're looking at and how it's built.
If that's not your strong suit then I'd stick with the Sansui as you stated it's a solid 7/10.
Could I use a modern (better) preamp between the Sansui and TT, or would that not work because it already has one inside?
Actually yes you can.
You would just need to connect the external preamp outs to the Sansui's "main in" terminals instead of the Sansui's preamp outs.
That 2000 A is nice little unit and punches above it's listed 35 WPC, don't give up on that too soon with a good pair of speakers that Sansui should make them sing.
See ^^^^ above ^^^^ comment from Dswankey,and let this all simmer a bit.
IOW you gotta a lotta options with that Sansui 2000 A .
And it's good that it's the A,as the plain 'ol 2000 did'nt have the pre-out / main-in feature IIRC.

HTH

Bret P.
 
Having the loudness button engaged at high volume may be an issue, or not...

1 w - 90 dB
2 w - 93 dB
4 w - 96 dB
8 w - 99 dB
16w - 102 dB
32w - 105 dB

105 dB should be pretty loud, although bass boost could cause clipping earlier. Sometimes the desire for louder can be satisfied by clearer instead.

Although 3 dB less efficient, a combination of Dayton Audio B652 AIR mini-monitors plus, say, their 10" SUB-1000 subwoofer would be a relatively inexpensive experiment, and would add 100 watts to what you have with the Sansui. Lots more placement options, too. Folks seem to like the AMT tweeter.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...okshelf-Speaker-Pair-with-AMT-Tweeter-300-651
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1000-10-100-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer-300-628

If you try a sub, I would disengage the Loudness button except at low volumes.

Just a thought - similar ideas abound, or course.
 
Ordered a preamp arriving in a couple of days. Easy thing to test. Will hook the TT up to a different input and see.

Looking into shelf speakers, which allows a room alteration to swap placement. Interested in suggestions. Happy to spend on them, but you may say the rig isnt worth the $$’s.

Ive popped a couple of tweeters in the past with these F30’s. Over exuberant nights with higher expectations of the system.

Pleased my Sansui gets warm comments. I’m a big fan. Looking at the little mod to keep the dial light on all the time. The tuner is such a nice feature as well.

Thanks all.
 
Curious as to why you purchased a separate preamp? I thought you were trying to get more "oomph" than the Sansui is providing? A different preamp is not going to give you more power (which is what you need if you want to go louder, assuming the speakers can handle it).

Or are you saying that you bought a phono preamp? If so, and contrary to an earlier post from another member, it would be connected to any line level input on the Sansui....NOT to the phono input. But you probably knew that.

I don't know anything about your current speakers, but the sensitivity rating on the back says 90dB. That means that a pair will hit 93 decibels (quite loud) with just one watt of input. You need another 9-12dB of headroom to account for peaks...that's a total of 8-16 watts needed for an average loudness of 93dB.

Your little Sansui can do 35 watts or so before clipping...so you've got enough for 96-99dB from those speakers. That is LOUD. Of course, that's at 1 meter from the speakers, and volume drops off with distance...but in a normal home environment, I would estimate you would still get a bit more than 90dB at 10-12 feet (with fairly minimal clipping).

But yes, if you want concert level loudness, you will need either more power, different speakers (higher sensitivity), or perhaps both. On a related note...it sounds as if your current speakers have an issue handling power, so if you look at different speakers, make sure that they can handle the power required to achieve the loudness you are looking for.

EDIT - A subwoofer, or pair of subwoofers, even if they don't go extremely low, will provide reinforcement in their frequency range, providing a sense of greater overall loudness, along with more, and usually better, bass below 100Hz or so.

EDIT #2 - I looked at specs for those speakers...they claim to go down to 55Hz, so I would guess they start rolling off pretty steeply at 75Hz or so. Simply put, they are light on bass response. A natural reaction to lack of bass is to boost the volume, turn up the bass knob and press the loudness button...none of which will add the missing bass, and can demand more voltage than the amp is capable of delivering ( = clipping).

From what I can tell, that speaker is designed for smaller spaces. It may be that the relatively small mid-woofers just can't move enough air to satisfy your needs.
 
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You said you would consider upgrading your speakers. While speaker preferences are very individual, and you will probably get many suggestions based on the preferences of those making the suggestion, a budget would at least narrow the suggestions down a bit.

Also, how large of a space are you working with?

There are certainly floor standing speakers that will go lower and sound fuller than your Celestions, if your space and/or budget does not allow for a subwoofer, or subwoofers. However, very few speakers can do the lowest frequencies as well as a good subwoofer.
 
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Thanks Spark. Appreciate your input.

Ordering a preamp might have been slightly misjudged on my part. I feel like the Celestions are underperforming, and want to rule out any amplifier reason. Its a cheap enough thing to try, but now realise it wont tell me much.

The rig is in a fairly small room. The house is small, but in the middle of the woods... and opening the windows and filling outside is a fun thing to do. Or we are inside and as the night gets later and later the volume gets higher and higher. Twice now I’ve woken up to a blown tweeter with the F30’s.

A sub woofer is sounding like a wise idea. Just listening more critically this afternoon, I’m missing a whole load of bass. And you are right, turning up the bass and pressing loudness is folly. (I dont do that BTW.)

I’d like to swap the floor standers anyway. If nothing else they are 90’s ugly. They can go in a new workshop I’m building.

I remember a set of Kef Coda 7’s I had many years ago. They were sweet. Left them in a house I sold.

I’d be looking above entry level. I’m hoping $300-$400 sounds like I spent some money.

I can fit a pair of shelf units and a sub in my space. Just not one of those cube subs.


You said you would consider upgrading your speakers. While speaker preferences are very individual, and you will probably get many suggestions based on the preferences of those making the suggestion, a budget would at least narrow the suggestions down a bit.

Also, how large of a space are you working with?

There are certainly floor standing speakers that will go lower and sound fuller than your Celestions, if your space and/or budget does not allow for a subwoofer, or subwoofers. However, very few speakers can do the lowest frequencies as well as a good subwoofer.
 
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JMO, why buy a preamp?
Why not bigger/better amp, speakers, or add a subwoofer?
Maybe I missed something but it seems like you picked a component that won't really address your weak spot.

If your car had bad tires would you put new windshield wipers on it?
 
The preamp will not rule out a lack of power as an issue, since it will not increase the power the Sansui delivers to the speakers.

Getting loud sound outdoors is hard, as their is no reinforcement from the room. Volume drops by 6dB for each doubling of distance from the speakers. Each 3dB loss in loudness takes a doubling of power to make up. Simply put, you run out of power pretty quick when trying to fill the great outdoors with sound.

Maybe get a nice pair of bookshelf speakers for indoors, and a big pair of some kind of party speakers - something with high sensitivity (96dB or more) and big woofers - for placing on the porch or blasting out the windows. Consider some used Cerwin Vegas, or some used PA speakers.

Probably not a good idea to run both pairs at the same time.
 
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I agree with adding a bigger power amplifier to the Sansui. All the new preamp may do is change the overall sound or tone. It will do nothing to add more umph or power to the speakers. Using the pre-outs on the Sansui to connect to a bigger power amplifier will. For outside, I have a system in my garage. Just an 80wpc integrated amp and a pair of 2way's with 8" woofers gets plenty loud blasting out of the garage with the roll up door open. Maybe a second system for outside is a better idea?
 
JMO, why buy a preamp?
..
Maybe I missed something but it seems like you picked a component that won't really address your weak spot.

Correct.

.. and bad mistakes, ive made a few.

(but committed no crime?)

The preamp will not rule out a lack of power as an issue, since it will not increase the power the Sansui delivers to the speakers.

Getting loud sound outdoors is hard, as their is no reinforcement from the room. Volume drops by 6dB for each doubling of distance from the speakers. Each 3dB loss in loudness takes a doubling of power to make up. Simply put, you run out of power pretty quick when trying to fill the great outdoors with sound.

Maybe get a nice pair of bookshelf speakers for indoors, and a big pair of some kind of party speakers - something with high sensitivity (96dB or more) and big woofers - for placing on the porch or blasting out the windows. Consider some used Cerwin Vegas.

Probably not a good idea to run both pairs at the same time.

Space is slightly at a premium here. Ultra idyllic cabin type thing. I’ll hold off the porch blasters for now, for lack of space.

Any thoughts on bookshelf speakers plus small sub?

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_405ALB2BK/KLH-Albany-II-Black-Oak.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_405STRT10/KLH-Stratton-10.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_336D120BLK/Wharfedale-Diamond-12-0-Black.html?tp=186.

For extra $100 12.1 https://www.crutchfield.com/p_336D121WLN/Wharfedale-Diamond-12-1-Walnut.html?tp=186

Just using Crutchfield to search. There really doesnt seem to be much in it.

These are attractive (Edit.. Ah, Each, not pair.). https://www.crutchfield.com/p_839MO15IGB/MartinLogan-Motion-15i-Gloss-Black.html

Looking up specs. My F30’s should equal most of whats here.

Maybe back to the very first reply to my thread ......... “get a sub”.. Ha.
 
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