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MC cartridge under $400?

F

fedocable

New Member
After losing my good old Denon DL-304 in an accident I'd rather forget, I've been using a spare Yamaha MC-7 I had. Not bad at all but I still miss the level of detail the late Denon provided. So I've decided to invest in a new MC cartridge. Any recommendations for a budget under $400? I would use it with a Project Tube Box II (MC has 60db gain, and 100 ohms / 120pf of input impedance); and mostly I listen to classical, jazz and folk.
I've been looking into the Denon 301 mkII, which has a great reputation and sounds like a reasonable 304's successor, but I wonder if its 0.4 mV output would be a little too high for my phono stage. Any comment on this particular would be much appreciated.
 
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I have said this before, but worth repeating, I dont think investing in a MC under 500 bucks is worthwhile. First I dont understand the audiophile mantra that MC is the only way to Nirvana, also it is based on a few myths too, first that MC is the lowest moving mass. This is not true MI is and actually with modern magnets some high end MM are lower moving mass than MC too so that myth is totally busted. I have really a lot of carts, some MM some MI and loads of MC's so around the 500 dollar mark but most 1.5k upwards. I also have a Decca super gold which is a MM and it is my best cart and up there with the best is my Grado statement reference low output MI. I also have a MP500 MI which is head and shoulders above the low end MC's. My Grado gold 2 sounds stunning too probably 90% of the Reference and only 260 buck with a user replaceable stylus and some retip this with a Paratrace which transforms it to sound really stunning. I also have a Stanton 681 with an LP gear vivid line stylus on it, this is well within your budget and it will sound way better than a cheap MC and again with a user replaceable stylus. Have a look to at the specs of carts like the Grado and the Stanton, look at channel separation and frequency range and compare this to your Denon... Not putting the Denons down so guys dont flame me here, but just pointing out there is MC tunnel vision. As I said I have a lot of very nice MC's which I wont be selling as I enjoy all my carts, but they are no better than decent MI or MM, actually some of the MM and MI sound really a lot better and for much less money.
Chris
 
caffe latte has a point. I have a HO MC the Sumiko BPS Evo III and an Entre' EC-20 LOMC . They both sound great but I mostly use my Acutex 312's . Just love the Tri-Pole
sound they have.

Also have you thought of having your Re tipped? there is a former member who does that pretty cheap on E-bay.

Nashou
 
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Audio-Technica AT33EV is just a bit over your budget. It sounds great at a friend´s rig on a Clearaudio Emotion TT.
 
At under $400 I would buy a nice MM like a ortofon Bronze or a older OM40 which is available at that price point. Would love to try the OM 40 myself on the Dual 1219. Like all of those exotic tips. YMMV
 
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Goldring 1042 https://www.lpgear.com/product/GOLDRG1042.html
MP-500 which is over budget but it should be within budget buying direct from Japan https://www.lpgear.com/product/NAGAOKAMP500.html
Grado gold 2 is not listed here but Kabusa does sell them also consider Sonata which is just over your budget but a fine cart https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
More Goldring https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
Check out ebay for 681 for less than 100 bucks then buy a new LP great stylus for 80 bucks
Audio Technical VM series
Just so many options that will give an entry level MC a serious run for the money.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
Goldring 1042 https://www.lpgear.com/product/GOLDRG1042.html
MP-500 which is over budget but it should be within budget buying direct from Japan https://www.lpgear.com/product/NAGAOKAMP500.html
Grado gold 2 is not listed here but Kabusa does sell them also consider Sonata which is just over your budget but a fine cart https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
More Goldring https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
Check out ebay for 681 for less than 100 bucks then buy a new LP great stylus for 80 bucks
Audio Technical VM series
Just so many options that will give an entry level MC a serious run for the money.
Chris
Click to expand...

Except a Denon DL 304 is not an entry level MC. It is a very capable cartridge that sold for $600 to $800 when it was in production. Actually I had it on my Marc Mornin modified AR XA, and was one of my favorite cartridges, even though I had others that cost quite a bit more.

The DL 304 is a fine cartridge by any measurement, and the DL 301, 160, or 103R is no where as capable as this one. It is a shame its out of production, as its a quality offering.

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
Except a Denon DL 304 is not an entry level MC. It is a very capable cartridge that sold for $600 to $800 when it was in production. Actually I had it on my Marc Mornin modified AR XA, and was one of my favorite cartridges, even though I had others that cost quite a bit more.


The DL 304 is a fine cartridge by any measurement, and the DL 301, 160, or 103R is no where as capable as this one. It is a shame its out of production, as its a quality offering.

Cheers
Mister Pig
Click to expand...


WOW!!!! there is anew one for sale on e-bay for 1600 + $$$$

Nashou
 
Mister Pig said:
Except a Denon DL 304 is not an entry level MC. It is a very capable cartridge that sold for $600 to $800 when it was in production. Actually I had it on my Marc Mornin modified AR XA, and was one of my favorite cartridges, even though I had others that cost quite a bit more.

The DL 304 is a fine cartridge by any measurement, and the DL 301, 160, or 103R is no where as capable as this one. It is a shame its out of production, as its a quality offering.

Cheers
Mister Pig
Click to expand...
Either Andy or Joe can retip that for $500 or less and make it better than new.
 
fedocable said:
After losing my good old Denon DL-304 in an accident I'd rather forget, I've been using a spare Yamaha MC-7 I had. Not bad at all but I still miss the level of detail the late Denon provided. So I've decided to invest in a new MC cartridge. Any recommendations for a budget under $400? I would use it with a Project Tube Box II (MC has 60db gain, and 100 ohms / 120pf of input impedance); and mostly I listen to classical, jazz and folk.
I've been looking into the Denon 301 mkII, which has a great reputation and sounds like a reasonable 304's successor, but I wonder if its 0.4 mV output would be a little too high for my phono stage. Any comment on this particular would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

The Denon DL-304 has the Stylus tip: 0.07 x 0.1mm special elliptical solid diamond.

The Yamaha MC-7 has 8 x 20 micron oval needle.

Since the fine tip of the Denon is the minimum requirement for detail, no point look at cartridge without at least the same if not finer than the Denon DL-304. :no:
 
The DL-304 is hardly not an entry level MC at 649 dollars which was the common selling price https://www.lpgear.com/product/DENONDL304.html
I like the Denon sound, but bit constrained bit too orderly, I am not good at explaining sound, but yes it is good but it is far from the best. MC wise hard to beat are carts like the Dynavector 17d3, mine is on my Commonwealth at the moment or the Benz Micro Glider which is very well balanced and nice and wide too. From my vintage collection the standouts are the Gas sleeping beauty (I know you dont rate them, but mine sounds amazing and suspension is perfect as is stylus) which is really stunning or my Sumuko Virtuoso again a wonderful MC, then the Madrigal Carnie, wow what a cart, but all these cost a lot lot more considering inflation at the time. My point was when you start with a budget of 500-600 dollars there are some serious MI and MM that are a better option than cheaper MC's of the same price and the MM and MI's are less trouble too most having user changeable stylus.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
The DL-304 is hardly not an entry level MC at 649 dollars which was the common selling price https://www.lpgear.com/product/DENONDL304.html
I like the Denon sound, but bit constrained bit too orderly, I am not good at explaining sound, but yes it is good but it is far from the best. MC wise hard to beat are carts like the Dynavector 17d3, mine is on my Commonwealth at the moment or the Benz Micro Glider which is very well balanced and nice and wide too. From my vintage collection the standouts are the Gas sleeping beauty (I know you dont rate them, but mine sounds amazing and suspension is perfect as is stylus) which is really stunning or my Sumuko Virtuoso again a wonderful MC, then the Madrigal Carnie, wow what a cart, but all these cost a lot lot more considering inflation at the time. My point was when you start with a budget of 500-600 dollars there are some serious MI and MM that are a better option than cheaper MC's of the same price and the MM and MI's are less trouble too most having user changeable stylus.
Chris
Click to expand...
I don't believe anyone has said that the Denon DL 304 is representative of what the finest MC cartridges have to offer. However, I do believe that I have said that at the cost of a retip, that this is an excellent cartridge, and would be very difficult to outperform. Basically that it is worth the cost of retip.

The limitations of the DL 304 in my opinion is the demands it makes on a phono stage. It is not the strongest of outputs, at .18 mV, which places heavy demands on the phono stage, and requires a quality one to get the job done. So this can easily lead to it being "constrained" sounding. Toss in the fact that its a bit garish looking, and is fitted with a technology of the past...the aluminum cantilever. Well it becomes easy to overlook this understated cartridge.

No I certainly would not put it at the same level of my other moving coils, but I have had enough good ones to become what I believe is an observer with a fair amount of experience listening to cartridges. I think my Ortofon A90 and Cedenza Blue are better, as is my ZYX 4D. However, in some ways I would prefer that Denon over the pair of Koetsu Urushi I had here, or several of the Audio Technica OC9 models. Heck the friend I sent it to who wanted to give it a try adores it over his Grace F9L. It is a cartridge that fails to get the respect it should for its abilities.

I would say its well worth putting $350 to $400 for a retip.

But that is the opinion of a simple country pig. We appreciate good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want a different opinion go talk to the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens, as fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
Well as an owner of the DL-304 I can say that this cartridge is finicky in its setup and requires the most exact setup you can give it in order to be on the right track to all the Sonic goodness it can provide . The next part is as Mister Pig said and that loading can be tricky. I have mine dialed in about as good as it’s going to get and I am being rewarded with some of the best sound I have ever gotten out of vinyl.

My Grace F9e is probably the best MM I have heard, it just checks all the boxes but the DL-304 adds a few more boxes to that list as it steps it up a few notches , it adds much more layering to the music and the one thing that at first I thought was a drawback of the Denon the bass was actually a lack of proper setup , once it was dialed in the bass is there it’s just not emphasized . When it’s time for a retip I will be fast to send mine off and will be watching the calendar for its return.

Audiofreak71
 
Audiofreak71 said:
Well as an owner of the DL-304 I can say that this cartridge is finicky in its setup and requires the most exact setup you can give it in order to be on the right track to all the Sonic goodness it can provide . The next part is as Mister Pig said and that loading can be tricky. I have mine dialed in about as good as it’s going to get and I am being rewarded with some of the best sound I have ever gotten out of vinyl.

My Grace F9e is probably the best MM I have heard, it just checks all the boxes but the DL-304 adds a few more boxes to that list as it steps it up a few notches , it adds much more layering to the music and the one thing that at first I thought was a drawback of the Denon the bass was actually a lack of proper setup , once it was dialed in the bass is there it’s just not emphasized . When it’s time for a retip I will be fast to send mine off and will be watching the calendar for its return.

Audiofreak71
Click to expand...
Try a MI
Chris
 
Mister Pig said:
I don't believe anyone has said that the Denon DL 304 is representative of what the finest MC cartridges have to offer. However, I do believe that I have said that at the cost of a retip, that this is an excellent cartridge, and would be very difficult to outperform. Basically that it is worth the cost of retip.

The limitations of the DL 304 in my opinion is the demands it makes on a phono stage. It is not the strongest of outputs, at .18 mV, which places heavy demands on the phono stage, and requires a quality one to get the job done. So this can easily lead to it being "constrained" sounding. Toss in the fact that its a bit garish looking, and is fitted with a technology of the past...the aluminum cantilever. Well it becomes easy to overlook this understated cartridge.

No I certainly would not put it at the same level of my other moving coils, but I have had enough good ones to become what I believe is an observer with a fair amount of experience listening to cartridges. I think my Ortofon A90 and Cedenza Blue are better, as is my ZYX 4D. However, in some ways I would prefer that Denon over the pair of Koetsu Urushi I had here, or several of the Audio Technica OC9 models. Heck the friend I sent it to who wanted to give it a try adores it over his Grace F9L. It is a cartridge that fails to get the respect it should for its abilities.

I would say its well worth putting $350 to $400 for a retip.

But that is the opinion of a simple country pig. We appreciate good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want a different opinion go talk to the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens, as fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Cheers
Mister Pig
Click to expand...
It might be loading or maybe not perfect Phono stage match, but my point was getting a set up done on the Denon or spend money on a really nice mi or mm, I would be doing the latter... Who am I kidding I am a cartaholic I would be getting a nice mm or mi AND getting the Denon retipped nut I am clearly nuts. :)
 
Mister Pig said:
I don't believe anyone has said that the Denon DL 304 is representative of what the finest MC cartridges have to offer. However, I do believe that I have said that at the cost of a retip, that this is an excellent cartridge, and would be very difficult to outperform. Basically that it is worth the cost of retip.

The limitations of the DL 304 in my opinion is the demands it makes on a phono stage. It is not the strongest of outputs, at .18 mV, which places heavy demands on the phono stage, and requires a quality one to get the job done. So this can easily lead to it being "constrained" sounding. Toss in the fact that its a bit garish looking, and is fitted with a technology of the past...the aluminum cantilever. Well it becomes easy to overlook this understated cartridge.

No I certainly would not put it at the same level of my other moving coils, but I have had enough good ones to become what I believe is an observer with a fair amount of experience listening to cartridges. I think my Ortofon A90 and Cedenza Blue are better, as is my ZYX 4D. However, in some ways I would prefer that Denon over the pair of Koetsu Urushi I had here, or several of the Audio Technica OC9 models. Heck the friend I sent it to who wanted to give it a try adores it over his Grace F9L. It is a cartridge that fails to get the respect it should for its abilities.

I would say its well worth putting $350 to $400 for a retip.

But that is the opinion of a simple country pig. We appreciate good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want a different opinion go talk to the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens, as fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Cheers
Mister Pig
Click to expand...
Cows are a lot smarter than many think, off topic but dingo injured a calf a few years back so we kept it in the garden while mum went grazing till it got strong again. Two years later same cow could not find her calf ( two calves later). She came to the house put her head into the garden looking everywhere, then MOOOO!!!!!!!! She wondered if we knew anything. We went looking and found calf safe and well, but mum remembered....
 
cafe latte said:
Try a MI
Chris
Click to expand...
I’ve owned plenty MI (mostly grados) and they don’t come near the Sonics of the MC’s I have heard nor the 304 imo . Nothing wrong with trying something new , but imo giving up on the 304 before exhausting all options for it will be selling yourself short .

Audiofreak71
 
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