Mind bending rumble trouble

[Whaleudder]

I have a low frequency, very high amplitude “rumble” (below human hearing) happening in my setup. It pulses a couple of times a second roughly.

So far I have changed out every single component in my system and the problem persists. If I play a record long enough it starts to double and triple up and the sound goes to hell and the speakers look like they are about to tear themselves apart. So I turn the volume off and it goes away

I have changed out speakers, changed out amps, changed out the turntable to one with a different cartridge, changed out the phono stage to one that has a subsonic filter (ifi zen phono), changed out everything and it still happens.

I even set up a completely different set of speakers, turntable and amp and still had the same issue.

Tried isolating the turntable, tried moving the turn table tried dam near everything. I even put the turntable on a couple of pillows to completely decouple them from the surface it was on.

Have tried will every single one of my records.

The issue stated about a week and a half ago. I have no idea what my next step is because as it is I can’t listen to any of my records.

I have also turned off every breaker in my house apart from the one my stereo is on. I have also tried a whole bunch of different power outlets.

Please help!

Edit: https://imgur.com/a/9bMav5e here is a link to what is happening. This is during the lead in to a song, no music is playing and apart from a few cracks from the speakers having trouble there is no audible sound. This is played with the volume below my usual listening volume and as you can see the speakers look like they are ready to tear themselves apart.

 

[beekeo]

At first that sounds like the sort of subsonic rumble you get from a warped record, but I would have assumed the ifi zen’s filter would have solved that.

but the interesting thing you mentioned is that the frequency “starts to double and triple up” like it is accelerating?

other questions:
- does it only happen with vinyl, are digital sources ok?
- you have swapped out some variables (amplifiers, turntables, speakers, outlets) with the problem persisting, what are the constants?
— the house electrical system
— you (how you connected everything)
— cables? Same source RCA/XLR/etc as well as speaker cables?
- you said this started 1.5 weeks ago or so, has anything changed in the system, room, house or neighborhood?

 

[flavio81]

I have a low frequency, very high amplitude “rumble” (below human hearing) happening in my setup. It pulses a couple of times a second roughly.

So far I have changed out every single component in my system and the problem persists. If I play a record long enough it starts to double and triple up and the sound goes to hell and the speakers look like they are about to tear themselves apart. So I turn the volume off and it goes away

I have changed out speakers, changed out amps, changed out the turntable to one with a different cartridge, changed out the phono stage to one that has a subsonic filter (ifi zen phono), changed out everything and it still happens.

I even set up a completely different set of speakers, turntable and amp and still had the same issue.

Tried isolating the turntable, tried moving the turn table tried dam near everything. I even put the turntable on a couple of pillows to completely decouple them from the surface it was on.

Have tried will every single one of my records.

The issue stated about a week and a half ago. I have no idea what my next step is because as it is I can’t listen to any of my records.

I have also turned off every breaker in my house apart from the one my stereo is on. I have also tried a whole bunch of different power outlets.

Please help!

Edit: https://imgur.com/a/9bMav5e here is a link to what is happening. This is during the lead in to a song, no music is playing and apart from a few cracks from the speakers having trouble there is no audible sound. This is played with the volume below my usual listening volume and as you can see the speakers look like they are ready to tear themselves apart.

In order to get help, you need to indicate which turntable are you using, which tonearm, and which cartridge. If the cartridge uses a replaceable needle, indicate if it's the original needle.

The video shows what looks like record warps on a turntable where perhaps the arm + cartridge compliance are not perfectly matched.

 

[adnick]

My first thought is that it isn’t rumble (turntable mechanical noise) sounds more like some type of oscillation? However I’m not in a place where I’m able to follow the link….

VR
Andy

 

[CrSens]

There is no possible explanation what is happening if OP changed systems, including different turntable, tonearm, cartridge and amp. Could be a prank post by first time poster? He has not responded since. Not providing any equipment details also points that way.

 

[kirk57]

Try setting the whole thing up in another room. There could be something with the outlet or location that is causing it.

 

[Montycat]

Poltergeist

 

[spark1]

In order to get help, you need to indicate which turntable are you using, which tonearm, and which cartridge. If the cartridge uses a replaceable needle, indicate if it's the original needle.

The video shows what looks like record warps on a turntable where perhaps the arm + cartridge compliance are not perfectly matched.

OP says he gets same result with different TT and cartridge.

 

[Whaleudder]

Hello everybody, thank you very much for your responses. I will try to answer as many questions as I can. First my apologies for not responding since my original post, I live in New Zealand and was asleep.

First I would like to assure everybody that this isn’t a prank or a troll or a joke. This is a very real and frustrating problem I am experiencing.

Second I have an update. Last night I woke up just before midnight and realised that one thing that has changed in my setup is that I have a new entertainment unit which has a steel frame. I have previously moved the turntable back to the sideboard where my setup was originally located however I just ran RCA cables and another cable as ground over to my amp which was located on the new entertainment unit. So I got out of bed, moved the turntable and amp both to the sideboard and tried from there. This immediately reduced the issue I have by about 75% and explains why I didn’t notice it until I got my new entertainment unit as it is much less visually noticeable. It is still however effecting my sound quality enough to be described as a substantial loss in quality. However that has pointed me in the direction of what may be the underlying cause of the issue. I live in a steel framed house. The electrical cables that supply power also pass through the framing. Could this create some electrical interference that could be causing the issue? Or it could also be that where the turn table is now located it is still close to a steel framed wall. I will pull the sideboard away from the wall later today to see if that results in any improvement.

my system specs are as follows.
Speakers: KEF LS50 Metas
Amp: Musical Fidelity M3SI
Turntable: Project Debut Carbon DC connected to the internal phono stage of the amp
Subwoofer: B&W 8 inch non-ported coming from preout on the amp.
Cd player: NAD cd player (sorry I am unable to remember the model off the top of my head)
Volumio: Raspberry Pi 4 with external hard drive connected to the internal DAC of the amp.

That’s all the components of my system. They are connected with the following connections.

“heavy duty” speaker wire from amp to speakers. (This is a generic copper speaker wire in a transparent jacket with a black line down one side for the negative). Speaker wires are terminated with banana plugs at each end.

The turntable is connected to the amp with the excellent RCA cables that come with project turntables.

Cd player and sub are connected to the amp view RCA cables that are very high quality.

Raspberry Pi is also connected to the amp with a very high quality usb A to B cable.

I will make seperate responses to each question that has been asked because I am on my mobile phone and I can’t work out the quote function.

 

[radiokom]

What cartridge you use? This low end noise what you call "rumble" you hear only when playing record or it is constant?

 

[Whaleudder]

At first that sounds like the sort of subsonic rumble you get from a warped record, but I would have assumed the ifi zen’s filter would have solved that.

but the interesting thing you mentioned is that the frequency “starts to double and triple up” like it is accelerating?

other questions:
- does it only happen with vinyl, are digital sources ok?
- you have swapped out some variables (amplifiers, turntables, speakers, outlets) with the problem persisting, what are the constants?
— the house electrical system
— you (how you connected everything)
— cables? Same source RCA/XLR/etc as well as speaker cables?
- you said this started 1.5 weeks ago or so, has anything changed in the system, room, house or neighborhood?

This issue only happens with vinyl, all other sources are fine. I have responded with component specs and my concern about the house electrical wiring going through steel framing. The change that was made was a new entertainment unit which appears to have amplified the issue to the point where it was very noticeable. Thank you for your response.

In order to get help, you need to indicate which turntable are you using, which tonearm, and which cartridge. If the cartridge uses a replaceable needle, indicate if it's the original needle.

The video shows what looks like record warps on a turntable where perhaps the arm + cartridge compliance are not perfectly matched.

Hello and thank you for your response. I am using a Debut carbon DC turntable with an Ortofon M2 Red cartridge and stylus. These are the originals that came with the turntable. They both have less than 30 hours on them.

My first thought is that it isn’t rumble (turntable mechanical noise) sounds more like some type of oscillation? However I’m not in a place where I’m able to follow the link….

VR
Andy

Thank you for your response Andy, I think you are on to something here, there could be some kind of sympathetic oscillation between the moving magnet and the steel in the entertainment unit/walls.

There is no possible explanation what is happening if OP changed systems, including different turntable, tonearm, cartridge and amp. Could be a prank post by first time poster? He has not responded since. Not providing any equipment details also points that way.

Hello, thank you for your response and concern. It does feel to me like there is no explanation until last night when I moved things around, now the picture is slowly becoming more clear. This is certainly not a prank however I can see how it may come across as that given how outrageous the problem is.

Try setting the whole thing up in another room. There could be something with the outlet or location that is causing it.

Thank you for your response Kirk. I moved my setup to the sideboard and got a big improvement but still have enough of an issue that it is badly effecting the sound of my system.

Poltergeist

At one stage my leading theory was that my house must be build on an ancient burial ground. Thank you for your response.

OP says he gets same result with different TT and cartridge.

correct. The problem seems to be environmental rather than system.

 

[Whaleudder]

What cartridge you use? This low end noise what you call "rumble" you hear only when playing record or it is constant?

Hello, I am using an Ortafon M2 Red. I have also tried with a turntable equiped with an ortofon Om5. It is only present during playback of records while the needle is down on the record itself.

 

[adnick]

Is it always with the same preamp?

 

[radiokom]

At one stage my leading theory was that my house must be build on an ancient burial ground. Thank you for your response.

Aha, then you need good 1L Single malt from Scotland, preferably Bruichladdich, drink 100g at once until bottle is empty and say after each drink "Ghost of Anthony van Diemen go away". Perhaps your problem it is because of him. Tasmania is close to you. This is first you should do. If this not help, replace output cables with cheap ones and look what happens. Check ground wire connection. Borrow amplifier with MM input from your friend and connect turntable to it. Or take your turntable and go to your friend what have system without problems. Of course it would be better to go step by step with all measurements, but for this you need someone with knowledge and measurement tools.

 

[radiokom]

Hello, I am using an Ortafon M2 Red. I have also tried with a turntable equiped with an ortofon Om5. It is only present during playback of records while the needle is down on the record itself.

OK, if only during playback, ghost of Anthony van Diemen is not a source of your problem. Perhaps surface where you place your table vibrates ( cause can be transformer or anything what can vibrate). Better place for turntable is shelf attached to brick wall. Check mechanical vibrations what can influence turntable (it can be really anything).

 

[heyraz]

This issue only happens with vinyl,

I have a new entertainment unit which has a steel frame.

A phono cartridge can act like an antenna. The steel frame might be sympathetically reflecting EMI into your cartridge.

I think you should join a HAM radio forum and post this issue, those guys understand antennae. The fix might be a simple as coiling one or more wires around a ferrite inductor core or even shortening a wire.
I build my own interconnects and I use snap on ferrite beads at the input side of my phono preamp.

 

[Whaleudder]

Is it always with the same preamp?

No I have tried it with the pre amp in my amp and with an Ifi zen phono (including with the subsonic filter on) and have gotten the same results. Thank you.

 

[Whaleudder]

Aha, then you need good 1L Single malt from Scotland, preferably Bruichladdich, drink 100g at once until bottle is empty and say after each drink "Ghost of Anthony van Diemen go away". Perhaps your problem it is because of him. Tasmania is close to you. This is first you should do. If this not help, replace output cables with cheap ones and look what happens. Check ground wire connection. Borrow amplifier with MM input from your friend and connect turntable to it. Or take your turntable and go to your friend what have system without problems. Of course it would be better to go step by step with all measurements, but for this you need someone with knowledge and measurement tools.

I have been able to swap out both the turntable and amp and phono stage and still the issue is the same. Next step is to take it to someone else’s house to check my theory.

 

[radiokom]

No I have tried it with the pre amp in my amp and with an Ifi zen phono (including with the subsonic filter on) and have gotten the same results. Thank you.

If rumble is only when cartridge is on record, it is 100% mechanical, not electronic. Something vibrates under your table.

 

[Whaleudder]

OK, if only during playback, ghost of Anthony van Diemen is not a source of your problem. Perhaps surface where you place your table vibrates ( cause can be transformer or anything what can vibrate). Better place for turntable is shelf attached to brick wall. Check mechanical vibrations what can influence turntable (it can be really anything).

I have done a test where I have put a couple of pillows under the turntable to completely decouple it from the surface it is resting on and the problem still persisted. Unfortunately my leading theory is still that it’s the steel framing in my house because I know that the steel in my entertainment unit was certainly causing problems.