they're a bit fragile, possibly a case of one broke. My FM-50 should have a set, but they are missing on that too.
Mono - can we talk mono?
- Thread starter jobrewer1983
- Start date
they're a bit fragile, possibly a case of one broke. My FM-50 should have a set, but they are missing on that too.
berkemo
New Member
Great post tubeactive! Sounds like we are of a similar vintage where our initial music listening experiences were likely mono. In my case, some of my earliest memories are of smaller transistor radios playing pop music of the day. I'm reminded today that the goal of music production prior to stereo was in part to serve one sound source, and in the case of pop music, it may not be a particularly high quality sound source i.e. transistor pocket radios. In listening to the original mono mixes of Beatle albums it's clear to me that the vocals and guitar hooks were mixed to shine on home and car radios. Who needed a rich bass and a crisp high hat? Get the kids to sing the hook!
Once my brother bought his stereo and I was able to sneak into his room and listen to the stereo Beatles et.al. my music listening world be become much more largely focused in separation and the choices mixing made on my ears. And that would remain through the purchase of my first stereo equipment for my room and beyond. I wasn't as adventurous as tubeactive was to try to stack amps but once quadrophonic hit, I did try to find the elusive spatial experience by wiring up an 'ambient' third speaker. It was cool. As I've rediscovered music through a recently acquired Motorola mono console, I am discovering the huge advantages of experiencing music from a single sound source.
Recently, I've found myself more drawn into recordings than I have in years of listening to stereo. Aside from a more authentic hearing of some recordings mixed with the intent of one source listening, I've found a more basic observation of the experience. One might argue that more audio information and an "accurate representation" of a music experience i.e. stereo/quadrophonic/surround sound is a desired experience, one that we should strive to duplicate the original performance (such as modern mixed recordings may be). But I might suggest that the single source requires a more interactive connection to the music that features a focus on a central idea of a piece through the mixing process and the limitation of one sound source. Psychoacoustics are indeed unique for each of us but from a psychoacoustic lens, I think there is a real argument to made for the mono experience. The bass instrument in a mono system finds its place more comfortably than in stereo. While some instruments are decidedly directional, the bass is more omnipresent in its frequency range and thus to me is so much more at home coming from a single sound source thus replicating a live performance more than a stereo experience might. In fact, the decisions made in mixing stereo sometimes distract my listening experience. I guess that's one reason remixes are so popular.
In the end, technology soldiers on and it should because it's what do as humans. And it's fun! At the same time I've certainly found plenty of joy in exploring the good old days.
Live music is rarely heard in circumstances that would provide a wide soundstage, and that soundstage has no relation to the "realism" of the music in a live setting.
Stereo soundstage is an artificial construct to mimic placement of musicians in the sound field but apart from classical recordings they are never recorded that way physically. I enjoy it and appreciate it, and usually dislike impossible staging (ie 16-foot wide drum kit) but the primary benefit of stereo to me is separation of sounds. Of course that benefits those sounds at the expense of cohesion, and while sometimes that's a net positive I often prefer mono records and mixes regardless of music style or ensemble.
More than anything, mono is equated with antiquated sound, even though a quality mono system will do everything a stereo system will except width of soundstage. Bottom line is that most haven't experienced it in a long time.
Stereo soundstage is an artificial construct to mimic placement of musicians in the sound field but apart from classical recordings they are never recorded that way physically. I enjoy it and appreciate it, and usually dislike impossible staging (ie 16-foot wide drum kit) but the primary benefit of stereo to me is separation of sounds. Of course that benefits those sounds at the expense of cohesion, and while sometimes that's a net positive I often prefer mono records and mixes regardless of music style or ensemble.
More than anything, mono is equated with antiquated sound, even though a quality mono system will do everything a stereo system will except width of soundstage. Bottom line is that most haven't experienced it in a long time.
toma-t-amot
Well-Known Member
Yes why not. All my stereo records converted by a Puffin into mono. ( Shure M-44-7 )
All my mono pressings via a Slee Jazz Club with a true mono cartridge.
Both into a pair stereo speakers.
That's all.
Big fun to me.
All my mono pressings via a Slee Jazz Club with a true mono cartridge.
Both into a pair stereo speakers.
That's all.
Big fun to me.
charles 1973
Super Member
A few years ago while breaking in my new Energy RC LCR Center channel speaker I shut off all but that one and listened to it for a few days in mono. There came a point while doing some casual listening I turned it up and thought it sounded really good. Then it dawned on me I was only listening to mono on one speaker.
That said, I used to switch from mono to stereo with some music and in nearly every instance stereo music sounded better in stereo then in mono. Often stereo sounds so much better then mono it's not even in the same league. Even on a vintage tube stereo table radio I found music always sounded better in stereo. More 3 dimensional.
Mono is fine from antique radios or stereo systems for sure. I love some of those antique floor standing and table radios. It's not because it's mono, it's all about the history and nostalgia.
That said, I used to switch from mono to stereo with some music and in nearly every instance stereo music sounded better in stereo then in mono. Often stereo sounds so much better then mono it's not even in the same league. Even on a vintage tube stereo table radio I found music always sounded better in stereo. More 3 dimensional.
Mono is fine from antique radios or stereo systems for sure. I love some of those antique floor standing and table radios. It's not because it's mono, it's all about the history and nostalgia.
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samrobertson
Active Member
This seems like the right place to ask this ‘which should I keep?’ for a mono vinyl setup. The tube amp contenders are:
Harman Kardon Prelude II 12 watts on EL84s
Pilot AA-903 10 watts on 6V6GT in a pilot mono console
Both were purchased working but unrestored. I’d like to restore one to use with mono LPs and old Garrard changer. My inclination is to restore the HK because it’s a new flavor tube amp for me - i already have a 6V6GT stereo amp - and perhaps also because I don’t want to go through the work of removing the other one from its console!
On the other hand, the idea of a mono console presents a certain special back-in-time allure. The HK can run either one or two speakers. Both have various EQ curves for pre-RIAA playback. Both were setup and briefly enjoyed, sounding great, but months apart so I can’t compare directly. They’ve been unplugged for months and I’m hesitant to power back up unrestored for listening tests. Anyone have strong preferences in either direction?
Harman Kardon Prelude II 12 watts on EL84s
Pilot AA-903 10 watts on 6V6GT in a pilot mono console
Both were purchased working but unrestored. I’d like to restore one to use with mono LPs and old Garrard changer. My inclination is to restore the HK because it’s a new flavor tube amp for me - i already have a 6V6GT stereo amp - and perhaps also because I don’t want to go through the work of removing the other one from its console!
On the other hand, the idea of a mono console presents a certain special back-in-time allure. The HK can run either one or two speakers. Both have various EQ curves for pre-RIAA playback. Both were setup and briefly enjoyed, sounding great, but months apart so I can’t compare directly. They’ve been unplugged for months and I’m hesitant to power back up unrestored for listening tests. Anyone have strong preferences in either direction?
It looks to me that you have two great choices either one of which would be worthy of a great sounding mono system. I would do them both but start with the Harman Kardon.
Thank you Katalyst for providing this PILOT link. I have no doubt this will prove useful to many Pilot owners/fans/techs.
Regards,
SixCats! aka Tom in Maine
In an effort to gain some experience with tube equipment and enjoy my older mono records as intended, I picked up this 1963 Newcomb TR-1640M a few months ago. The amp is an ultra linear design with a 12AX7 > 6AV6 > 6AN8 > to a pair of 6BQ5s for a tube compliment. I went through it and replaced all the electrolytics and out of spec resistors and for the first time, had Hayseed build a new can for it because I felt that the build quality deserved better than my usual stuffing new filter caps where I can.
Here's a shot of the system on the bench -
Replacement caps and resistors installed -
The cap can from Hayseed was 38.00 and took about two weeks to arrive from the time of ordering -
The speakers have a 12" woofer and a 3" tweeter with a single 10mfd capacitor for a crossover and were made by Oxford. Though I replaced the crossover cap, I left the old one in there so as to impress the ladies. I also upgraded the zip cord speaker cables from 18ga. to the more audiophile 16ga.
I'm thrilled with the way this old thing sounds. My old mono records have never sounded better, and I find myself using it more than any of my other stuff, even for streaming. I did make the mistake of replacing the GE VRll cartridge with a Pickering 380 (wired to mono) in order to hear a few stereo records on it and was very disappointed, so I reinstalled the GE.
This experience has really opened my eyes. I'm currently using it with just one of the speakers as for whatever reason, I seem to prefer the sound this way. If this humble system can sound so great to my old ears, I can't imagine how some of the more refined equipment pictured in this thread must sound!
Here's a shot of the system on the bench -
Replacement caps and resistors installed -
The cap can from Hayseed was 38.00 and took about two weeks to arrive from the time of ordering -
The speakers have a 12" woofer and a 3" tweeter with a single 10mfd capacitor for a crossover and were made by Oxford. Though I replaced the crossover cap, I left the old one in there so as to impress the ladies. I also upgraded the zip cord speaker cables from 18ga. to the more audiophile 16ga.
I'm thrilled with the way this old thing sounds. My old mono records have never sounded better, and I find myself using it more than any of my other stuff, even for streaming. I did make the mistake of replacing the GE VRll cartridge with a Pickering 380 (wired to mono) in order to hear a few stereo records on it and was very disappointed, so I reinstalled the GE.
This experience has really opened my eyes. I'm currently using it with just one of the speakers as for whatever reason, I seem to prefer the sound this way. If this humble system can sound so great to my old ears, I can't imagine how some of the more refined equipment pictured in this thread must sound!
That is a really nice Newcomb and so clean. I like it.
likebike23
Addicted Member
I just set up a little Webcor tube phonograph with Realistic Solo-2 external speaker and have been listening to it a lot the last few days.
I recapped the amp and replaced a few resistors and the 6V6 outputs tubes a while back. It was working fine for a little while then I started getting a little electricity through the turntable so I shelved it for a while. I recently ordered a new Y rated safety cap and replaced the cap between AC and ground and it took care of it.
I modified it a bit and installed a Garrard Autoslim/P as the original turntable was too troublesome to deal with. I also installed a switch and speaker terminals on the back to switch between the internal speakers or an external speaker. The internal speakers are one 6x9 and two 3" tweeters which sound very good for a small phono. The external speaker is a early 60's tube era Realistic with an 8" coaxial driver, it is pretty efficient handling only 10 watts. It matches well with the 5 or so watt 6v6 push pull amp in the Webcor.
I'm running a pfansteihl P190 ceramic cart strapped for mono and have to say it is fine with plenty of output. It tracks well at a reasonable 4gr and has a metal cantilever diamond stylus. There is also a tape input on the back that I have a Chromecast Audio connected into with a summing cable I made.
It's been pretty fun playing around with this setup and getting a taste of real vintage sound. It definitely delivers tube goodness and sounds incredible when the amp is all warmed up, the sound is so thick. It does jazz really well and is no slouch with rock. I'm enjoying it.
I recapped the amp and replaced a few resistors and the 6V6 outputs tubes a while back. It was working fine for a little while then I started getting a little electricity through the turntable so I shelved it for a while. I recently ordered a new Y rated safety cap and replaced the cap between AC and ground and it took care of it.
I modified it a bit and installed a Garrard Autoslim/P as the original turntable was too troublesome to deal with. I also installed a switch and speaker terminals on the back to switch between the internal speakers or an external speaker. The internal speakers are one 6x9 and two 3" tweeters which sound very good for a small phono. The external speaker is a early 60's tube era Realistic with an 8" coaxial driver, it is pretty efficient handling only 10 watts. It matches well with the 5 or so watt 6v6 push pull amp in the Webcor.
I'm running a pfansteihl P190 ceramic cart strapped for mono and have to say it is fine with plenty of output. It tracks well at a reasonable 4gr and has a metal cantilever diamond stylus. There is also a tape input on the back that I have a Chromecast Audio connected into with a summing cable I made.
It's been pretty fun playing around with this setup and getting a taste of real vintage sound. It definitely delivers tube goodness and sounds incredible when the amp is all warmed up, the sound is so thick. It does jazz really well and is no slouch with rock. I'm enjoying it.
My opinion is that the most impactful part of any audio system is/are the speakers. For my stereo system, I chose Ohm omni's for a more natural and immersive musical experience compared to most traditional direct radiating box speakers which would give me a more localized sweet spot which, to me, sounds artificial and analytical.
I believe that prior to the stereo era, some speaker manufacturers actually included a speaker's dispersion, in degrees, in their specifications. And why one can hear surprizingly good sound from consoles which have open backs.
But then again, some of my best memories was when I was young listening to music with my younger brother on this JVC portable! So maybe it's not the equipment after all!
Warmest regards,
Gary
I believe that prior to the stereo era, some speaker manufacturers actually included a speaker's dispersion, in degrees, in their specifications. And why one can hear surprizingly good sound from consoles which have open backs.
But then again, some of my best memories was when I was young listening to music with my younger brother on this JVC portable! So maybe it's not the equipment after all!
Warmest regards,
Gary
The demise of the 89T is a shame. Gary at thevoiceofmusic.com usually has the various forms of the Pfanstiehl 911 in stock, but my understanding is that they can be hit or miss in terms of build / sound quality.
Cool Webcor you have there. I came across it's matching RTR, the Webcor 210 (and a Zenith Cobramatic) at a yard sale not too long ago. They are both currently on my "to do" list.
I hear those R2Rs aren't that good, so if you want to get rid of it I'd happy to take it off your hands.
Yea… I’ve been hooked on my little Mono rig, especially in the evenings. On the weekends we like to stay up late and listen to music, I find I really enjoy the mono rig in the evenings when I’m messing with other audio gear. I have a few small mono FM/AM radios that I’ve always loved so I’ve know that mono can sound good but never attempted a true mono rig. it’s truly enjoyable and ikd if it’s the tubes or the full range speakers I’ve been testing out but I’m telling you vocals seem to be so much more interesting and inviting, guitar and pretty much all strings, jazz and classical are just fricken amazing. Yea I’m hooked. I keep finding really cool FR speakers too for low buck. I feel like I found another aspect of the audio hobby. I need to build a nice little cabinet for 8” drivers and 12” drivers so that I can just swap out drivers in one dedicated mono box. Just so many things you can do with mono. May dig out a phono stage this evening and spin some LPs through this system.
wanted to say thanks for all the great posts too, I’ve been learning a lot from you folks!
Had some fun this long weekend swapping tubes and drivers, also got some good usage out of this little mono Sony radio. Was up late each evening listening to a few old radio shows on “old time radio” a few shows from the 30/40s. Listened to a great one called “I’ll never die alone” was suspenseful and well done.